My idea for a new Horsham & Redhill service to Brighton

[Schweir]

An idea for a hourly direct service to Brighton for both Redhill & Horsham. See below for an example calling pattern (with the train joining / detatching at Three Bridges):

• Redhill - Earlswood - Horley - Gatwick Airport - Three Bridges
• Horsham - Littlehaven - Ifield - Crawley - Three Bridges

Then Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill, Hassocks, Preston Park & Brighton

This service would provide better connectivity across some of the major population centres in Sussex (+ Redhill) which surely GTR need to consider rather than just prioritising the many London - Brighton services. In terms of formation, most likely 2 x 377/3 (6 cars departing Brighton) with 1 x 377/3 then continuing to Horsham & Redhill after splitting at Three Bridges.

 

[JonathanH]

surely GTR need to consider rather than just prioritising the many London - Brighton services

Why are you sure that GTR and the DfT need to consider this?

The flow from London to Brighton and Brighton to London far exceeds any flow from Brighton to and from Redhill or Horsham, even if the demand for travel from Redhill to Brighton is not insignificant.

 

[PGAT]

What is the incentive for anyone at Redhill to take a slower and less frequent train to Brighton? There’s already 6tph from Redhill to Gatwick and from Gatwick to Brighton and can be done in 45 minutes. It’s even worse at Horsham because the time it takes to reverse + attach/divide exceeds the time it takes to catch a connecting train from Three Bridges

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I once suggested here extending the North Downs service to Brighton. Linking Brighton and Guildford might have its benefits but getting a Turbo to keep up with 377s was seen as a blockage to the idea.

 

[PGAT]

Also I don't think 3 car turbos could handle all the traffic from Brighton

 

[NSE]

I don’t think 6 carriages would be that ideal on the Brighton Mainline stretch either. Thameslink is minimum 8 carriages, usually 12, and GatEx and Southern services are generally 8 as a minimum through there. Whilst 6 wouldn’t be a disaster off peak, it only takes one portion cancelled and you’re faced with 3 carriages which certainly isn’t enough.

That said, I think the service is fine as it is. 4tph from Horsham to Three Bridges, 2 fast, 2 stoppers, then 4tph from Three Bridges to Brighton, 2 semi fast 2 stoppers. Not everywhere needs direct connections. I don’t know the specific track layout at Three Bridges, but a reversal and an attach/detach at a fairly busy junction location doesn’t sound like the most resilient idea to me.

 

[zwk500]

Terminating from the South at Redhill would be quite painful, but the bigger question is why do you need a direct question when Redhill and Horsham have 4tph to Three bridges independently and Three Bridges to Brighton is 4tph, with other services available at Gatwick. There's also the issue that you will need to allow 3 minutes between the portions arriving from different directions and then 4 minutes to attach (potentially longer if the reversal requires it), and all this needs to happen in Platform 2 for the Brighton-bound service (you can use 2 or 3 for the ex-brighton service).

 

[jackot]

I once suggested here extending the North Downs service to Brighton. Linking Brighton and Guildford might have its benefits but getting a Turbo to keep up with 377s was seen as a blockage to the idea.

I have always had this in mind as an idea since the end of Crosscountry going to Brighton via Guildford, but the point about a blockage is a big one to consider - maybe if the 769s had proven to be successful this could have worked, with them using 3rd rail from Reigate all the way to the coast.

Also I don't think 3 car turbos could handle all the traffic from Brighton

It would almost have to be 'drop off only' at Gatwick towards Brighton and 'pick up only' going back towards Reading, as otherwise it would be far too busy like you said.

The truth is that aside from the station being a bit of a maze to navigate, changing at Gatwick to go to Brighton is a fairly easy connection for a passenger to make, with there already being plenty of trains going from Gatwick to Brighton.
Extending the service to Brighton (even if only the current semi-fast Gatwicks did so with the stoppers still terminating at Redhill) just adds further complexity, pushing the somewhat reliability-challenged turbos even further from their home at Reading when in service.

As far as the proposal made for a Horsham and Redhill service, I really see no need. With very easy connections from Redhill/Horsham to Gatwick or Three Bridges already in place and a frequent service once they get to those stations to Brighton it seems a bit of a waste.
Southern are pushed for the number of 377s as it is right now and even more so the 377/3s, now they are also working along the Coastway whilst also having the 'USP' of forming 10 car services (the longest possible at some of their stations).

 

[PGAT]

Capacity is also an issue. There probably isn't much room at Three Bridges for trains to reverse/attach/divide there, nor will there be spare paths south of Balcome Tunnel Junction

 

[Sutton in Ant]

Well. I just think this would be a waste of resources and don't see it ever happening.