Remaining Effects of Covid

[Ediswan]

To be scientific needs more than one piece of evidence. Has this been peer reviewed? Seems to have three authors; how do we know it's not just a small group with some self interest?

The link is to Nature. Nature is a peer reviewed journal.

In this case:

Peer review information​

Nature Medicine thanks Zachary Strasser and the other, anonymous, reviewer(s) for their contribution to the peer review of this work. The primary handling editor was Ming Yang, in collaboration with the Nature Medicine team.

 

[brad465]

Nice work if you can get it:

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Sir Jonathan Van-Tam, who became a prominent figure in the UK government’s pandemic response, has taken a role as senior medical consultant at Covid vaccine maker Moderna.

 

[Richard Scott]

The link is to Nature. Nature is a peer reviewed journal.

In this case:

Sorry but one or two people is not proper peer reviewing, needs other groups to come up with similar results for it to hold water. Afraid I'm not convinced.

 

[occone]

It does puzzle me somewhat when I see the occasional person still wearing a mask. Obviously it's entirely up to them and doesn't affect me. But, before 2020, I had never seen anyone wearing a mask in public at all. So what did these people do before Covid? Presumably they didn't wear a mask back then. I'm genuinely curious about it. I would ask one of them but it would probably get taken the wrong way.

Hey I'm one of those folk. I'll answer your question in good faith as you asked it.

I didn't wear a mask before COVID unless I was in the wood shop or doing lots of dusty work.

However to me, COVID is a different beast to what viruses we had before. I went from a perfectly healthy "normal" 20something chap to someone horribly unwell and unable to work for a year and a half after I caught COVID in 2020. It was the worst experience of my life, and three years on (to the month) I'm still dealing with the effects. Thankfully I'm able to work again, and despite what some say, everyone I know who is dealing with long COVID *wants* to work and be able to be productive. Feeling useless is awful.

I choose to wear a FFP3 (filtering) mask so as to reduce, not eliminate, the amount of the COVID virus I take in should I encounter it again in the wild. I know plenty of others who have had an awful time with it on the second run in, and I feel like I've been given a second chance at life having recovered, and I don't wish to blow it just yet. My time will eventually come, and I'll deal with the consequences when it happens. But in the mean time I'll do small practical things like wear a FFP3 mask when on trains or indoors.

 

[Thirteen]

Nice work if you can get it:

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I imagine that'll come with a huge salary, probably more than he made as Deputy Chief Medical Officer.

 

[yorkie]

However to me, COVID is a different beast to what viruses we had before.

That's a myth; it's not fundamentally different. What makes it "different" is that it was a novel virus in a naive population.

When European settlers colonised places that didn't have previous exposure to what are now commonly circulating viruses, the effects were similar.

I went from a perfectly healthy "normal" 20something chap to someone horribly unwell and unable to work for a year and a half after I caught COVID in 2020. It was the worst experience of my life, and three years on (to the month) I'm still dealing with the effects. Thankfully I'm able to work again, and despite what some say, everyone I know who is dealing with long COVID *wants* to work and be able to be productive. Feeling useless is awful.

If you'd been exposed to Sars-CoV-2 alongside the other commonly circulating respiratory viruses from a young age, then this would have been avoided; similarly vaccination would have also trained your immune system to fight this virus off.

You've been unlucky though as most people who had no prior exposure to Sars-CoV-2 or the vaccine were not anywhere near as badly affected, but with everyone now having immunity through a combination of (in most cases) vaccination and (surely by now in all cases) natural exposure, there isn't going to be anyone left whose immune system is completely naive to this virus.

I choose to wear a FFP3 (filtering) mask so as to reduce, not eliminate, the amount of the COVID virus I take in should I encounter it again in the wild.

You won't realistically be able to wear it all the time when in the presence of other humans, so you are going to be re-exposed to Sars-Cov-2, as it is inevitable.

I know plenty of others who have had an awful time with it on the second run in....

Who are these people and how do you know plenty of them, given your experience is very rare.

, and I feel like I've been given a second chance at life having recovered, and I don't wish to blow it just yet. My time will eventually come, and I'll deal with the consequences when it happens. But in the mean time I'll do small practical things like wear a FFP3 mask when on trains or indoors.

If it makes you feel better to stand out, then that is your choice, but you cannot avoid the inevitable fact that we are all going to be regularly re-exposed to Sars-CoV-2, which is very much the 5th endemic human Coronavirus, alongside the four longstanding pre-existing ones. There is no getting away from it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Aug 2023 ==

Oh boy, IndySage are sabre rattling again...

New Covid variant could have us 'masking up again', scientists warn

Scientists have called for people to start wearing face masks again amid a worrying Covid-19 variant 'mutation'.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

They just don't want to give up on mask compulsion, it has literally become a cult for IndySage and it's rapidly shrinking fan base.

Two words to them. The second one is off....

Trisha Greenhalgh is clearly mentally ill; any sane journalist should not be quoting her.

Her irrational fears have been proven wrong many times, and yet she just can't stop craving attention. She is utterly bonkers.

 

[Ediswan]

Sorry but one or two people is not proper peer reviewing, needs other groups to come up with similar results for it to hold water. Afraid I'm not convinced.

Attempting to replicate results is good science. However, it is not called peer review.

 

[DustyBin]

Sorry but one or two people is not proper peer reviewing, needs other groups to come up with similar results for it to hold water. Afraid I'm not convinced.

I’m not sure if you saw my earlier responses to this, but the study is completely out of date anyway. We know that the vast (vast!) majority of people develop good immunity to SARS-CoV-2 after initial infection, and that fears over the cumulative effect of repeat infections, and nasty scariants variants, were (and are) completely unfounded.

It’s 2023; if people want to return to the misery of covid restrictions I suggest they buy a DeLorean!

 

[El Blanco]

That having boasted about how well they had handled the pandemic and sunk much reputation into their achievements it then becomes very difficult to reverse course. Especially in a dictatorship that has morphed into a cult of personality (to a degree). Very embarrassing if the leader then turns out to have gotten it wrong...

Enough about Nicola Sturgeon and Scotland, what about China?

 

[bleeder4]

Hey I'm one of those folk. I'll answer your question in good faith as you asked it.

I didn't wear a mask before COVID unless I was in the wood shop or doing lots of dusty work.

However to me, COVID is a different beast to what viruses we had before. I went from a perfectly healthy "normal" 20something chap to someone horribly unwell and unable to work for a year and a half after I caught COVID in 2020. It was the worst experience of my life, and three years on (to the month) I'm still dealing with the effects. Thankfully I'm able to work again, and despite what some say, everyone I know who is dealing with long COVID *wants* to work and be able to be productive. Feeling useless is awful.

I choose to wear a FFP3 (filtering) mask so as to reduce, not eliminate, the amount of the COVID virus I take in should I encounter it again in the wild. I know plenty of others who have had an awful time with it on the second run in, and I feel like I've been given a second chance at life having recovered, and I don't wish to blow it just yet. My time will eventually come, and I'll deal with the consequences when it happens. But in the mean time I'll do small practical things like wear a FFP3 mask when on trains or indoors.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Hey I'm one of those folk. I'll answer your question in good faith as you asked it.

I didn't wear a mask before COVID unless I was in the wood shop or doing lots of dusty work.

However to me, COVID is a different beast to what viruses we had before. I went from a perfectly healthy "normal" 20something chap to someone horribly unwell and unable to work for a year and a half after I caught COVID in 2020. It was the worst experience of my life, and three years on (to the month) I'm still dealing with the effects. Thankfully I'm able to work again, and despite what some say, everyone I know who is dealing with long COVID *wants* to work and be able to be productive. Feeling useless is awful.

I choose to wear a FFP3 (filtering) mask so as to reduce, not eliminate, the amount of the COVID virus I take in should I encounter it again in the wild. I know plenty of others who have had an awful time with it on the second run in, and I feel like I've been given a second chance at life having recovered, and I don't wish to blow it just yet. My time will eventually come, and I'll deal with the consequences when it happens. But in the mean time I'll do small practical things like wear a FFP3 mask when on trains or indoors.

Thanks for taking the trouble to answer.

As someone who shrugs off flu I got a surprise with Covid. Of course it was my first experience and at 61 youth was not on my side. I was very ill by my standards but nowhere near hospital. The second time I got it was more about isolating than feeling ill but still ill. Because of my allergy I have had to go without the immunisations - but having had the real thing I feel safe enough.

BUT for my partner it has hung on to her as long Covid.

For me it is about avoiding crowded confined spaces (public transport). We were led to believe crowded confined spaces were an unhealthy thing - I now take more notice of that situation as I don't really want to catch anything let alone Covid. So that is one bit of caution I am not in a hurry to turn my back on. Plus why would anyone want to pay money for the ordeal and waste of their time commuting !.

So let us not forget there are those out there who will want to take more precautions than many of us need to. Anyone with a compromised immune system will want to be more cautious than the majority. Old and frail people will want to be careful and will expect those around them (carers) to take more precautions. I have commented to a few people who continue to wear masks and determined they were carers. So that might be the significant minority that continue with precautions.

For me my view is a mask helps slow down spread if the wearer is sneezing or coughing. A hand over the mouth used to be expected - I can guess a loose fitting mask is better. But long gone are the days when we needed to slow the INEVITABLE spread to give the NHS a chance.

Time will dissolve peoples fear and resolve as it does for many things (eg wars). I would say the desire to avoid the grind of commuting will take a long time to be overcome !. I took early retirement as I am fed up with the rat race.

 

[DustyBin]

Some experts are claiming that the latest variant of interest could be the "real deal". Unless I hear it first-hand from David Dickinson I shall remain unconvinced....

 

[jon0844]

It does puzzle me somewhat when I see the occasional person still wearing a mask. Obviously it's entirely up to them and doesn't affect me. But, before 2020, I had never seen anyone wearing a mask in public at all. So what did these people do before Covid? Presumably they didn't wear a mask back then. I'm genuinely curious about it. I would ask one of them but it would probably get taken the wrong way.

People did wear masks before 2020, especially people visiting from countries like China and Japan. They still wear them now, because they often do in big cities for reasons other than viruses.

I do now see older people continuing to wear masks, and as you say, it's entirely up to them. I never understood why anyone would get angry at someone else wearing something.

 

[Bantamzen]

Some experts are claiming that the latest variant of interest could be the "real deal". Unless I hear it first-hand from David Dickinson I shall remain unconvinced....

Oh why didn't they say sooner?

People did wear masks before 2020, especially people visiting from countries like China and Japan. They still wear them now, because they often do in big cities for reasons other than viruses.

They did but don't think for a moment that it was some altruistic gesture to their fellow citizens. In Japan they often wore them when they were sick in order not to miss work, as missing a day at work, or even taking leave is seen by many employers as dishonourable. Japan has a pretty poor record on mental health as a result, and is why for example they put platform barriers on platforms because so many overworked, over-stressed workers were chucking themselves in front of trains.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Oh why didn't they say sooner?


They did but don't think for a moment that it was some altruistic gesture to their fellow citizens. In Japan they often wore them when they were sick in order not to miss work, as missing a day at work, or even taking leave is seen by many employers as dishonourable. Japan has a pretty poor record on mental health as a result, and is why for example they put platform barriers on platforms because so many overworked, over-stressed workers were chucking themselves in front of trains.

Some middle ground would be nice. We have plenty of dishonourable people in my part of the UK who are quite happy to use a knife !.

 

[jon0844]

In Japan they often wore them when they were sick in order not to miss work, as missing a day at work, or even taking leave is seen by many employers as dishonourable.

That may be true, but why are they wearing them when they travel? Force of habit? More likely they're doing it because of pollution in cities, which means they're seeing a mask as having two purposes - protecting others and themselves.

 

[Bantamzen]

That may be true, but why are they wearing them when they travel? Force of habit? More likely they're doing it because of pollution in cities, which means they're seeing a mask as having two purposes - protecting others and themselves.

Why, well when travelling I imagine they didn't want to be seen be colleagues not wearing them. I've seen quite a lot of commentary on this, from both Japanese citizens and foreigners who work there. But as with other issues recently brought up on this thread, this was debated to death in the specific pandemic threads. Eastern Asian countries were often held up as a shining example of how to be (i.e. wearing masks), but scratch the surface and you might not be as impressed by what you see. As I say Japan has a very poor record on mental health, partly because of the expectation that workers must not dishonour themselves and their employers by being ill and unable to work. So even before covid spread, the practice was very common. And don't even get me started on China and their treatment of their citizens during the pandemic, and long after.

 

[VauxhallandI]

People did wear masks before 2020, especially people visiting from countries like China and Japan. They still wear them now, because they often do in big cities for reasons other than viruses.

I do now see older people continuing to wear masks, and as you say, it's entirely up to them. I never understood why anyone would get angry at someone else wearing something.

It’s more pity than anger

 

[gswindale]

It’s more pity than anger

Why?

I don't care what you're wearing or why you're wearing it. I couldn't give a rat's behind if you've got a mask on or a pair of Nikes wrapped around your ears. Man wearing a dress - fine. Who cares? Why should it be a reason to pity them/get angry?

 

[jon0844]

It’s more pity than anger

Why pity? How does it affect you?

That you care says more about you than the mask wearer.

 

[Richard Scott]

Why pity? How does it affect you?

That you care says more about you than the mask wearer.

Possibly because they've been mislead. The mask has become like a comfort blanket maybe? This is sad if people feel they can't go out without a mask because of what they were told 3 years ago as, whatever you say, life is not normal for them and that is a pity.

 

[jon0844]

But masks existed before Covid. Not everyone is wearing one because of Covid. There are other reasons to wear a mask.

 

[gswindale]

Possibly because they've been mislead. The mask has become like a comfort blanket maybe? This is sad if people feel they can't go out without a mask because of what they were told 3 years ago as, whatever you say, life is not normal for them and that is a pity.

So next time I visit my dentist who's wearing a mask I should ask him to take it off?

You are making the assumption that they are wearing a mask because of covid. You can't be entirely certain what type of mask it is and you'll have no idea why they're wearing it.

If I was to take a walk down a busy dual carriageway, I'd be tempted to wear some sort of mask to try and block out some particles. Do you pity me for wanting to try and look after my health?

 

[Richard Scott]

So next time I visit my dentist who's wearing a mask I should ask him to take it off?

You are making the assumption that they are wearing a mask because of covid. You can't be entirely certain what type of mask it is and you'll have no idea why they're wearing it.

If I was to take a walk down a busy dual carriageway, I'd be tempted to wear some sort of mask to try and block out some particles. Do you pity me for wanting to try and look after my health?

Don't be ridiculous, you know exactly what I mean.
Yes, there may be other reasons but, in most cases, I doubt it. Before 2020 almost never saw anyone wearing a mask especially FFP3s unless working in a dusty environment. There's certainly more people wearing them now than before 2020 even if numbers are relatively small.
You'll probably find there's more particulates in the High Street than by a dual carriageway in reality.

 

[Bald Rick]

I never understood why anyone would get angry at someone else wearing something.

+1

I’ve had Covid 3 times now, and each time has been worse than the previous visitation. Last time (a few months ago) I was laid up for a week, and took about 6 weeks to fully recover. I was fortunate enough not to need to go out to very busy places during my most recent bout, but had I done so, I would have worn an FFP3 mask as I would not want to be responsible for giving what I had to someone much more vulnerable than myself.

For the record, I am a generally healthy person, and reasonably fit. I have not been ill with anything except Covid for over 15 years.

 

[rapmastaj]

Way back in 2008, my Japanese and Taiwanese friends told me the main reason for the popularity of masks there was to avoid catching viruses, and they were most commonly worn by people from more rural areas who were visiting a larger city, where diseases tend to mingle. I had thought air pollution would have been a much more sensible reason to wear a mask, but that was apparently never people's main incentive.

 

[davews]

On my trip into London on Wednesday, SWR and Southeastern, I only saw two masks the whole day, both on the train coming back to Martins Heron. Lady got on at Waterloo, sat down, then promptly took it off for rest of journey (a very packed 1820). Then the guard, not seen staff with them for ages.

I keep being puzzled by those who have had covid multiple times and quite severely at that. I have never knowingly had it and only two minor colds since 2019. There may be truth in the boosters lowering immunity as presumably those who suffer this way have been fully jabbed. I had the original two AZ doses in early 2021 but have declined all the boosters and am a pretty fit 74 year old.

 

[birchesgreen]

Well i've had all the boosters (until they stopped giving it to 50-somethings) and haven't knowlingly had covid either. Boosters lowering immunity is a fascinating thing, not heard of that before. I would have thought it'd have been the opposite...

 

[Bantamzen]

+1

I’ve had Covid 3 times now, and each time has been worse than the previous visitation. Last time (a few months ago) I was laid up for a week, and took about 6 weeks to fully recover. I was fortunate enough not to need to go out to very busy places during my most recent bout, but had I done so, I would have worn an FFP3 mask as I would not want to be responsible for giving what I had to someone much more vulnerable than myself.

For the record, I am a generally healthy person, and reasonably fit. I have not been ill with anything except Covid for over 15 years.

I've tested positive three times for it, however only once did I feel any ill effects and even that wasn't as bad as a cold I had shortly after lockdown where I tested negative for it. So to be honest I'm not sure what your point is? Yes some people feel worse than others, but that is true of pretty much any disease and has been pretty much from when we climbed down from the trees.

From a personal standpoint I feel slightly sorry for people still walking around with the blue or cloth masks on. Time has shown that they are totally ineffective in stopping the spread, so these people cling to the notion spread more widely than the virus itself that masks keep them, others and the NHS safe. Let's face it SAGE themselves pretty much admitted that it was a social experiment when they said they were surprised with what they could get away with. I'm just glad that there were critically minded people that questioned the effectiveness of loose fitting face masks and other measures, otherwise we could well have found ourselves in a situation like China.

Way back in 2008, my Japanese and Taiwanese friends told me the main reason for the popularity of masks there was to avoid catching viruses, and they were most commonly worn by people from more rural areas who were visiting a larger city, where diseases tend to mingle. I had thought air pollution would have been a much more sensible reason to wear a mask, but that was apparently never people's main incentive.

Are you sure they were "popular"?

 

[birchesgreen]

Mask wearing in public is pretty rare now, probably back to the level it was pre-covid when occasionally you'd see one (almost always an East Asian).