Project Oval: TfL win DfT contract to expand contactless system to 233 rail stations by May 2024, Railcards coming to contactless payment cards

[Starmill]

Thanks, yes I am aware of the travelcard. I just want a point to point Ashford to Wimbledon which doesn't exist for some reason.

I think that there are quite a few cases where a non Zone 1 Travelcard is available and no point to point, it's deliberate.

 

[MikeWh]

I have caught sight of an updated map today (can't say any more yet). The phase 2 boundaries have altered somewhat in the west/south-west.

Aldershot has extended onto Alton.
Brookwood has extended to Farnborough Main.
The entire loop from Reading via Oxford to Princess Risborough has been removed, as has Bicester North.


Edit: This 'new' map still doesn't recognise the Thames Valley branches which all have contactless already.

 

[MrJeeves]

I've bodged together my own kind-of-good-enough map.

Blue is existing PAYG network.
Yellow is what we know is coming.
Pink is extra based on fares that have been set up.

If someone tells me them, I'll mark out the Phase 1/2 boundaries, too.

Also let me know if I've made any mistakes.

I also regret not doing this as a vector image.



Ok, I think this covers Phase 1 (green)?

 

[MikeWh]

Green is correct, as far as I can tell.
Yellow goes to Cambridge via both Stansted and Letchworth, Bedford via both St Albans and Bletchley, and Brighton.
Yellow does not extend beyond Princess Risborough in the Banbury direction, as mentioned above.
The pink bits are correct but should be yellow.

 

[MrJeeves]

Updated with your info. Thanks @MikeWh!

I assume not, but via Lewes is permitted to Brighton, so perhaps that might be included one day? Probably not for a long while yet...


Remade it a bit more professionally now

 

[cav1975]

Updated with your info. Thanks @MikeWh!

I assume not, but via Lewes is permitted to Brighton, so perhaps that might be included one day? Probably not for a long while yet...


Remade it a bit more professionally now

Thanks for the interesting map. A journey that I make is Rainham (Kent) to Tunbridge Wells. Would I be allowed to go via Paddock Wood?

 

[Starmill]

It seems crackers to me to include Tonbridge and Maidstone West, but not the services between them changing at Paddock Wood or direct.

 

[PTR 444]

It seems crackers to me to include Tonbridge and Maidstone West, but not the services between them changing at Paddock Wood or direct.

Exactly. Nowhere should any direct journey have a gap in between PAYG zones. It was bad enough with Reading and Gatwick Airport when the North Downs Line wasn’t valid.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I assume not, but via Lewes is permitted to Brighton, so perhaps that might be included one day? Probably not for a long while yet...

Given proximity and the fact it’s a more recognised method of getting to Brighton than Lewes, let’s get Hove in first, please!

 

[JonathanH]

It was bad enough with Reading and Gatwick Airport when the North Downs Line wasn’t valid.

It still isn't valid via that route, neither is Reading to Feltham via Staines.

 

[PGAT]

Wasn’t Holmwood awkwardly included on the original map, or has that since been dropped?

 

[higthomas]

Surprised they've removed Oxford, but kept Cambridge.

Wonder if it will go to Cambridge North? Seems like another Lutonesque source of confusion if not.
Agree with regards not including all of Tonbridge - Stood.

Also I feel both Uckfield and Southminster should be included simply as lines which only go into the zone.

Does anyone know if this is meant to have a phase 3, or is that unknown.

 

[MrJeeves]

Wasn’t Holmwood awkwardly included on the original map, or has that since been dropped?

I think it was an error. The original included an orange branch out to Holmwood but the station itself was a white circle.

 

[MikeWh]

Wasn’t Holmwood awkwardly included on the original map, or has that since been dropped?

It did look like it might be included, but I think that was an error. Someone coloured too much of the line.

Surprised they've removed Oxford, but kept Cambridge.

Wonder if it will go to Cambridge North? Seems like another Lutonesque source of confusion if not.
Agree with regards not including all of Tonbridge - Stood.

Also I feel both Uckfield and Southminster should be included simply as lines which only go into the zone.

Does anyone know if this is meant to have a phase 3, or is that unknown.

I guess the amount of patronage generated by Uckfield, Southminster and Maidstone to Tonbridge makes it uneconomic.

 

[hwl]

Surprised they've removed Oxford, but kept Cambridge.

Wonder if it will go to Cambridge North? Seems like another Lutonesque source of confusion if not.
Agree with regards not including all of Tonbridge - Stood.

Also I feel both Uckfield and Southminster should be included simply as lines which only go into the zone.

Does anyone know if this is meant to have a phase 3, or is that unknown.

The scope was broadly a manifesto commitment, based on pre Covid contactless card limits.
The aim is to deliver what is in scope before worrying about more, but further expansion will help the "ticket office" issue.

 

[Capvermell]

Wasn’t Holmwood awkwardly included on the original map, or has that since been dropped?

Correct Holmwood was shown on the original map but Ockley, Warnham and Horsham weren't despite being served by the same once an hour trains with no saturday evening or sunday service. Obviously they originally only looked at distance from London but have also now looked at service frequency and passenger numbers when refining the Stage 1 station list hence Holmwood now being deleted.

Ludicrously Three Bridges is still excluded even though its a very busy station only one stop on from Gatwick and is where most overnight services from Victoria to Gatwick terminate (apart from the two overnight that continue on to Brighton).

 

[CyrusWuff]

Surprised they've removed Oxford, but kept Cambridge.

Oxford only makes sense if you do both Great Western and Chiltern. (If it was up to me, I'd go right through to Banbury via both routes.)

But I'd take everything beyond the initial 53 stations with a pinch of salt until there's a formal announcement regarding Phase 2.

 

[PTR 444]

Oxford only makes sense if you do both Great Western and Chiltern. (If it was up to me, I'd go right through to Banbury via both routes.)

And EWR should be valid too if Milton Keynes is also included in the scheme.

 

[telstarbox]

Paddock Wood to Strood makes less sense as it's not served by London services except the odd HS1 peak ones.

 

[MikeWh]

Paddock Wood to Strood makes less sense as it's not served by London services except the odd HS1 peak ones.

Neither are large chunks of the North Downs line between Reigate and Wokingham, or the Thames Valley branches, or Bletchley to Bedford*, or Watford to St Albans.

*In fact how many of the stations are going to survive on that line?

 

[Watershed]

In fact how many of the stations are going to survive on that line?

There have been various proposals over the years. Nothing has been publicly confirmed, but I'd imagine it will probably involve a significant reduction.

 

[PGAT]

I doubt any of them would close, it would probably be easier to run a replacement bus for the smaller stations while EWR runs fast through them, for example

 

[Starmill]

I doubt any of them would close, it would probably be easier to run a replacement bus for the smaller stations while EWR runs fast through them, for example

The replacement bus that currently runs is untrackable and very unreliable. Drivers from different companies seem to take different routes. It's also far from clear precisely where you're even supposed to wait at some stops. As sad as it is the trains have been off for so long the market from the intermediate stations is going to be near zero now when it does return, because everyone has got used to several years of no service.

 

[didcotdean]

Oxford only makes sense if you do both Great Western and Chiltern. (If it was up to me, I'd go right through to Banbury via both routes.)

But I'd take everything beyond the initial 53 stations with a pinch of salt until there's a formal announcement regarding Phase 2.

There are already a not insignificant number of people who mistakenly attempt contactless payment to Oxford which get caught on board or at the gateline. On my last journey there were three parties doing so just in my part of the carriage, all of whom seemed to be foreign tourists.

 

[Gigabit]

Great news to have Contactless to Alton!

 

[shakermaker_86]

Correct Holmwood was shown on the original map but Ockley, Warnham and Horsham weren't despite being served by the same once an hour trains with no saturday evening or sunday service. Obviously they originally only looked at distance from London but have also now looked at service frequency and passenger numbers when refining the Stage 1 station list hence Holmwood now being deleted.

Ludicrously Three Bridges is still excluded even though its a very busy station only one stop on from Gatwick and is where most overnight services from Victoria to Gatwick terminate (apart from the two overnight that continue on to Brighton).

To me Horsham would seem like the logical place to finish, with all stations on the Southern via Ockley and Thameslink via Crawley/Three Bridges being included, given that both these routes terminate at Horsham.

 

[MikeWh]

Correct Holmwood was shown on the original map but Ockley, Warnham and Horsham weren't despite being served by the same once an hour trains with no saturday evening or sunday service. Obviously they originally only looked at distance from London but have also now looked at service frequency and passenger numbers when refining the Stage 1 station list hence Holmwood now being deleted.

Ludicrously Three Bridges is still excluded even though its a very busy station only one stop on from Gatwick and is where most overnight services from Victoria to Gatwick terminate (apart from the two overnight that continue on to Brighton).

Holmwood was not named on the earlier map, whereas all the other "end of contactless" stations were. This is why I think someone drew the orange line one stop too far.

We are talking about the second phase of Oval here. That goes all the way down to Brighton, so Three Bridges is definitely included.

 

[davetheguard]

Seems slightly strange to have Edenbridge Town excluded when Edenbridge (on the Tonbridge - Redhill line) is included. A possible sorce of confusion?

I guess wherever you draw a line, something will always fall just the wrong side of it.

 

[PGAT]

Seems slightly strange to have Edenbridge Town excluded when Edenbridge (on the Tonbridge - Redhill line) is included. A possible sorce of confusion?

I guess wherever you draw a line, something will always fall just the wrong side of it.

Redhill has and Tonbridge will have contactless so it would cause confusion if the stations in between didn’t have contactless either. The Uckfield line doesn’t get the passengers and is too far out to justify inclusion in the project

 

[Railcar]

Is the Freedom Pass area extended to Epsom? It looks like it on the map (orange area).