Metrocar updates and withdrawals - Tyne & Wear Metro

[phillogie@tisc]

I visited the depot today to see what was stored on the avoiding line.

From the Longbenton end the line up is 4002, 4076, 4060, 4010, 4001, 4077, 4080, 4061 & 4064

 

[DanNCL]

Opening post updated with changes to the storage lineup at Gosforth. 4020 is now also a parts donor, I now make that 7 units at Gosforth that have been cannibalised (01/02/10/20/70/76/77)
The status of the battery locos remains the same as it was a few months ago, BL2 is the only one operational, the others are stored at Gosforth.

Anyone able to update what the current situation is in terms of the fleet? Has long term OOU units been reinstated or are the units that is on the avoiding line still the same as before?

At least going by the twitter feed, there does not seemed to of been any fleet shortages and seemingly reliability has seemed to of improved also so hopefully things are settling down before the dreaded Autumn/winter period.

There's actually fewer units in the operational pool now than there were (on paper at least) a month ago. See quoted post below for the lineup on the avoiding line:

I visited the depot today to see what was stored on the avoiding line.

From the Longbenton end the line up is 4002, 4076, 4060, 4010, 4001, 4077, 4080, 4061 & 4064

Thanks, list updated.

 

[Paul_10]

I visited the depot today to see what was stored on the avoiding line.

From the Longbenton end the line up is 4002, 4076, 4060, 4010, 4001, 4077, 4080, 4061 & 4064

In that case, units 4054, 4063 and 4088 which were recently on the avoiding line are now elsewhere, does anyone know if they are stored or have they been seen back in service.

Shame 4064 has seemingly not stayed in service for long.

Opening post updated with changes to the storage lineup at Gosforth. 4020 is now also a parts donor, I now make that 7 units at Gosforth that have been cannibalised (01/02/10/20/70/76/77)
The status of the battery locos remains the same as it was a few months ago, BL2 is the only one operational, the others are stored at Gosforth.


There's actually fewer units in the operational pool now than there were (on paper at least) a month ago. See quoted post below for the lineup on the avoiding line:

Thanks, list updated.

I would be tempted to update the list and put 4061/4077 under withdrawn for good. I'll be surprised if they ever return to passenger service.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Wasn't 4077 the first to be named? They missed a trick not naming it M*A*S*H

 

[adam_haddad40]

Units 4056 and 4088 are stored out of use at Gosforth depot.

 

[Paul_10]

That list on the OP is starting too look quite colourful to say the least! Shame too see a huge amount of metrocars unavailable/withdrawn though especially with the infamous fleet shortages seem to be rearing it's ugly head again.

Any news when 4010/60/76 might be moved to Howdon?

 

[The Laziest]

How did 4040 and 4083 go from being some of the better performers - as somebody previously suggested - to being permanently withdrawn?

The situation is definitely not looking good. Are units being withdrawn to be used as sources of parts or are there any other reasons?

 

[Tramfan]

I don't think any of them have been withdrawn specifically to provide spare parts. It tends to happen naturally if a train requires maintenance/repair or a routine part change, and there either isn't the space or spare part readily available, it gets parked up and then naturally becomes a go to for other parts for other trains

 

[bramling]

How did 4040 and 4083 go from being some of the better performers - as somebody previously suggested - to being permanently withdrawn?

A shame, as I really enjoyed planning my travels around them whilst up in Newcastle earlier this year, and was looking forward to doing the same next month.

All good things come to an end…

With the fleet situation being as fluid as it has been, I guess nothing is a certainty, so not impossible they could re-appear?

 

[hacman]

How did 4040 and 4083 go from being some of the better performers - as somebody previously suggested - to being permanently withdrawn?

Whilst I am unsure of the circumstances surrounding these two units, it is easily possible for units that are otherwise very reliable to end up stopped.

All it takes is a unit to run out of miles before a major exam is required, a critical part to fail, some sort of structural or safety issue to be observed, etc.

At such a point, it then gets assessed against the time and money needed to repair it, vs the option of taking parts from it to bring other units back into service. The cheaper and quicker option is almost always chosen, especially in the situation we're in now.

Ultimately with these units having well over 43 years in service (and used on an intensive service pattern at that), they're utterly worn out. With the new fleet not far away from entering service, the aim is just keeping as many units available on a daily basis for the minimum effort and cost.

 

[Paul_10]

A shame, as I really enjoyed planning my travels around them whilst up in Newcastle earlier this year, and was looking forward to doing the same next month.

All good things come to an end…

With the fleet situation being as fluid as it has been, I guess nothing is a certainty, so not impossible they could re-appear?

I think the plan was for all the unrefurbished cars to be withdrawn quite early, I'm not sure in the case of 4040/4083 if they are that much different to the rest of the fleet parts wise but the issue is, if one of them has a serious issue which is expensive to fix then the other one has to be withdrawn also.

It did look encouraging at one point where long term out of use units were coming back into service, there was no news of fleet shortages(or at least wasnt being reported) but now we seem to gone right downhill again and if only 65 units are apparently fit to be available then it leaves very little room for error by the looks of it.

Really concerned to what the Autumn and winter will hold, full system closure if we get a cold spell?

 

[DanNCL]

I'm not sure about the specifics of why 40 and 83 were withdrawn. The last day they were reported in service was 28th July on the Yellow Line, if they've ran in service after that date it went unnoticed. Both are now missing components.

Any news when 4010/60/76 might be moved to Howdon?

A single Metrocar was seen at Howdon recently but unsure as to the identity, could be one of those three or could be something else.

The situation is definitely not looking good. Are units being withdrawn to be used as sources of parts or are there any other reasons?

Almost always down to units needing parts that are unavailable.

With the fleet situation being as fluid as it has been, I guess nothing is a certainty, so not impossible they could re-appear?

I have it on good authority that they're not expected to return to passenger service.

I think the plan was for all the unrefurbished cars to be withdrawn quite early, I'm not sure in the case of 4040/4083 if they are that much different to the rest of the fleet parts wise but the issue is, if one of them has a serious issue which is expensive to fix then the other one has to be withdrawn also.

40 and 83 are near enough the same as the rest of the fleets for spare parts, the only reason they couldn't work in multiple with the wider fleet in passenger service was down to the call for aid alarms. There was an unsuccessful test in 2012, it hasn't been attempted since.

It did look encouraging at one point where long term out of use units were coming back into service, there was no news of fleet shortages(or at least wasnt being reported) but now we seem to gone right downhill again and if only 65 units are apparently fit to be available then it leaves very little room for error by the looks of it.

Really concerned to what the Autumn and winter will hold, full system closure if we get a cold spell?

56 required for the Monday-Friday timetable.

 

[Paul_10]

56 required for the Monday-Friday timetable.

And clearly 56 vehicles are apparently not available, it's shameful really when we once had 90 metrocars not so long ago! You never really hear issues on the Merseyrail fleet and they are slightly older than our units, the only issue they seem to have is with the new toys which is from the same family as our new toys(bodes well for the future doesn't it).

 

[The Laziest]

56 required for the Monday-Friday timetable.

That was going to be my next question given how many sets we have seen withdrawn from service over the last few months….

 

[Trestrol]

The problem is that the "Modern Practice" is to buy refurbished parts in. Whereas not so long ago they had workshops and staff to fix and overhaul things. Compressors and the like we're overhauled on site not sent away.

 

[Volvictof]

Last week 40 and 83 were in the depo missing several windows and colourfully graffitied

 

[TWM Fan]

4090 ran a normal green line service today. Should it be marked as operational? Its also had the graffiti removed

 

[hacman]

And clearly 56 vehicles are apparently not available, it's shameful really when we once had 90 metrocars not so long ago! You never really hear issues on the Merseyrail fleet and they are slightly older than our units, the only issue they seem to have is with the new toys which is from the same family as our new toys(bodes well for the future doesn't it).

Merseyrail has significant issues with its 507/508 fleet. There have been issues for years now where services have been reduced or cancelled on a regular basis, and many rush hour services which are meant to be 6-car formations are reduced to 3.

The availability of the legacy fleet on Merseyside and the delayed introduction of the 777s have been a very sore subject in the region, especially considering a large amount of the delay was caused by Merseytravel trying to insist on DOO and having the trains built for this before an agreement was finalised with the unions.

It's worth remembering that the 507/508 fleet was also built to a much more substantial design than our "LRV" style Metrocars, and shared parts with a very large pool of similar fleets.

 

[Paul_10]

Merseyrail has significant issues with its 507/508 fleet. There have been issues for years now where services have been reduced or cancelled on a regular basis, and many rush hour services which are meant to be 6-car formations are reduced to 3.

The availability of the legacy fleet on Merseyside and the delayed introduction of the 777s have been a very sore subject in the region, especially considering a large amount of the delay was caused by Merseytravel trying to insist on DOO and having the trains built for this before an agreement was finalised with the unions.

It's worth remembering that the 507/508 fleet was also built to a much more substantial design than our "LRV" style Metrocars, and shared parts with a very large pool of similar fleets.

I thought Merseyrail had one of the highest percentages in terms of reliability? The introduction of the 777s has been a caused of many issues which had lead to the short formed or cancelled services? Of course maybe the reliability of the older fleet has gone down as they have to manage two fleets and sending units for scrap can't help either in terms of availability.

It's something I fear for here aswell, units will be sent for scrap even if there is not many 555s available, the first unit is no where near ready to be introduced for passenger service yet looking at the OP list, almost a 1/3 of the fleet is not available for various reasons.

 

[ModernRailways]

I thought Merseyrail had one of the highest percentages in terms of reliability? The introduction of the 777s has been a caused of many issues which had lead to the short formed or cancelled services? Of course maybe the reliability of the older fleet has gone down as they have to manage two fleets and sending units for scrap can't help either in terms of availability.

It's something I fear for here aswell, units will be sent for scrap even if there is not many 555s available, the first unit is no where near ready to be introduced for passenger service yet looking at the OP list, almost a 1/3 of the fleet is not available for various reasons.

This is inevitable, Nexus left it until the units were life expired to get the order in. The old units shouldn't be operational anymore, but the fact they still are shows the level of effort but in by the depot teams. Nexus may like to slander Stadler and saying that it's all down to Stadler but as I've said previously, Stadler were given life expired units and expected to run them just as intensely as they were doing 10-20 years ago.

Generally, the units sent for scrap first will be those that are basically dead operationally but have some good parts usage that can be put into the operational fleet to keep them ticking over. It'll then likely come down to mileage and reliability.

Merseyrail generally had good parts availability as they formed a common train type, even if some of those parts were old, Metro is very unique and doesn't really have anything to share parts with hence they were fabricating their own replacements in the old depot.

 

[bramling]

I thought Merseyrail had one of the highest percentages in terms of reliability? The introduction of the 777s has been a caused of many issues which had lead to the short formed or cancelled services? Of course maybe the reliability of the older fleet has gone down as they have to manage two fleets and sending units for scrap can't help either in terms of availability.

It's something I fear for here aswell, units will be sent for scrap even if there is not many 555s available, the first unit is no where near ready to be introduced for passenger service yet looking at the OP list, almost a 1/3 of the fleet is not available for various reasons.

Merseyrail’s fleet has been stretched for years. A number of units were removed from the fleet from the 90s onwards, which significantly reduced the amount of 6-car working compared to a generation ago. As the fleet has aged, there has been a continued gradual reduction in availability, which has largely manifested itself in a gradual whittling down of the number of 6-car services over the years.

Yes Merseyrail has generally been reliable in terms of the way their performance is measured, but one might see things differently if one’s daily service is a packed 3-car, or on busy event days.

Things have got an order of magnitude worse with the need to manage the run-down of the 507/508 fleet. It isn’t quite as much of a mess as Nexus have managed, who seem to be trying to emulate what happened on the Isle of Wight, but Merseyrail is something of a mess as well.

 

[DanNCL]

Just a note with the colours on the opening post, I'm aware that the text for 4062 is the wrong colour, I've attempted to fix this but when I save the post it automatically reverts back to orange. Is this a glitch with the forum software?

I noticed a couple of days ago that 4042 is currently running round with a single door leaf that is unpainted internally, in the condition that the doors were on unrefurbished units. The door hasn't been taken from 4040 or 4083 as both of those had the doors painted in recent years. If I had to guess, the door leaf was likely in storage for several years before finding its way onto 4042 recently.

4090 ran a normal green line service today. Should it be marked as operational? Its also had the graffiti removed

Just returned to service. List now updated.

I thought Merseyrail had one of the highest percentages in terms of reliability? The introduction of the 777s has been a caused of many issues which had lead to the short formed or cancelled services? Of course maybe the reliability of the older fleet has gone down as they have to manage two fleets and sending units for scrap can't help either in terms of availability.

It's something I fear for here aswell, units will be sent for scrap even if there is not many 555s available, the first unit is no where near ready to be introduced for passenger service yet looking at the OP list, almost a 1/3 of the fleet is not available for various reasons.

Merseyrail can keep services running when they're short of working 507s/508s by shortforming diagrams. Metrocars aren't allowed to run in passenger service solo anymore so a shortage of working units automatically leads to cancellations.
Any unit that's already dead and provided as many usable parts as possible may as well go for scrap now as its only taking up space that could be used for more 555s to be delivered. It's only if units were to start going for scrap in operational condition without enough operational 555s to replace them that it would actually be an issue.

It isn’t quite as much of a mess as Nexus have managed, who seem to be trying to emulate what happened on the Isle of Wight, but Merseyrail is something of a mess as well.

The Nexus way of doing things is to do nothing for as long as they possibly can. It's showing in many aspects of the Metro network currently, not just the fleet.

 

[Paul_10]

I don't follow the Merseyrail system much at all(apart from some interest in the 777s as they are from the same manufacturer as the 555s) so was not aware all the issues is not down to the new stock but it's fair to say, it has not gone down as well as they have hoped for.

I noticed a couple of days ago that 4042 is currently running round with a single door leaf that is unpainted internally, in the condition that the doors were on unrefurbished units. The door hasn't been taken from 4040 or 4083 as both of those had the doors painted in recent years. If I had to guess, the door leaf was likely in storage for several years before finding its way onto 4042 recently.

Been like that for a good number of years now, certainly not a recent thing. If you notice on the exterior, the yellow on the door is a darker tone compared to the rest so as you say, it's probably a spare door from the depot that was fitted at the time.

 

[Big Steve]

Had a wonder over to Cheswick Drive on Wednesday. Saw the following from the Longbenton end;

4002 graffitied & missing pantograph
4076 graffitied
4060 graffitied
4010 graffitied & missing some windows
4001 graffitied
4080 graffitied
4061 graffitied
4064 graffitied

Had 3 hours or so on the system and observed the following (sorry, not had time to weed out duplicates);

004 & 054 to South Hylton
006 & 048 to South Hylton
028 & 053 to South Shields
045 & 087 to St James
090 & 081 to South Hylton
025 & 058 to Newcastle Airport
008 & 089 to South Shields
026 & 057 to South Hylton
036 & 066 to St James
052 & 078 to South Hylton
068 & 086 to South Shields
053 & 028 to St James
003 & 011 to South Hylton
054 & 004 to Newcastle Airport
027 & 049 to South Shields
089 & 008 to St James
084 & 021 to South Hylton
048 & 006 to Newcastle Airport
042 & 033 to South Shields
087 & 045 to South Hylton
018 & 031 to St James
071 & 069 in siding Ilford Road
081 & 090 to Newcastle Airport
086 & 068 to St James
067 & 024 to South Shields
057 & 026 to Newcastle Airport
004 & 054 to South Hylton
049 & 027 to St James
028 & 053 to Pelaw
082 & 030 to South Shields
006 & 048 to South Hylton
033 & 042 to St James
015 & 037 to South Shields
090 & 081 to South Hylton
078 & 052 to Regents Centre
011 & 003 to Newcastle Airport
026 & 057 to South Hylton
044 & 046 to St James
066 & 036 to South Shields
045 & 087 to Newcastle Airport
052 & 078 to South Hylton
007 & 016 to South Shields
053 & 028 to St James
003 & 011 to South Hylton
074 & 039 to South Shields
025 & 058 to Newcastle Airport
069 & 071 to St James
084 & 021 to South Hylton
024 & 067 to St James
008 & 089 to South Shields
029 & 009 to Newcastle Airport
087 & 045 to South Shields
030 & 082 to St James
079 & 005 to Newcastle Airport
031 & 018 to South Shields
037 & 015 to St James
068 & 086 to Ilford Road loop
054 & 004 to Newcastle Airport
058 & 025 to South Hylton
012 & 085 to St James
027 & 049 to South Shields

 

[Tramfan]

56 is back in service today

 

[7522]

Metrocar 4019 has returned to service.

 

[Tramfan]

13 back in service today also

 

[Paul_10]

Been up to the region for last few days, not too much to note.

4064 is no longer on the avoiding line but the rest are still there. I noticed the ones that have been stabled for a very long time have been targeted on both sides. Makes me doubt even more 4001 will be preserved, save money by cleaning it and no doubt apply a new vinyl wrap onto it and just send it for scrap instead.

4038 is back in service also, did not see any other long term out of use units on the system.

 

[Maninblack]

Not been on here for a while.
I was on the Metro last night. It was dirty, noisy, and a real bone shaker.
So does enyone know how many new trains are complete/delivered/in the building stage?
The current fleet are on their last legs/wheels!
If the new fleet are not introduced to service soon I can see Metro having to take a break!!

 

[Tramfan]

Not been on here for a while.
I was on the Metro last night. It was dirty, noisy, and a real bone shaker.
So does enyone know how many new trains are complete/delivered/in the building stage?
The current fleet are on their last legs/wheels!
If the new fleet are not introduced to service soon I can see Metro having to take a break!!

That will have just been flats, nothing a quick visit to the lathe won't sort