Ayr Station Hotel Fire 28/05/2023 and now on fire again 25/09/2023

[Ayrshire Roy]

Couple of questions from me. I've not been two or through air by train for some years, did one of the previous files make the existing booking office unusable and therefore either resulted in closure or a temporary structure in a building or heaven forbid a porter cabin elsewhere on the land? And if not I assume that all that is now left of the booking office is a heap of chard remains and rubble? Also, how long can the 156 units trapped south of air keep going, I assume they can be fueled but what about toilet emptying and service and maintenance of the units?

The 156s will be fine, the stabbling point is south of the station.
That's if there is room as I haven't been round for a look yet to see how many 380s are trapped there.

 

[380101]

The 156s will be fine, the stabbling point is south of the station.
That's if there is room as I haven't been round for a look yet to see how many 380s are trapped there.

You can't access Ayr Townhead yard from the south. Trains have to enter it from platform 3. I don't think there are any units in the yard. Since the May timetable there has been a big reduction in the amount of stabled sets in there during the day.

There are 2 x 156 units south of Ayr. Not sure whether they've coupled them up to make a 4 car or not. An emergency timetable starts tomorrow with 2 trains either way Stranraer - Girvan per day.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks, the emergency timetable will certainly help things unit-wise I guess but it's presumably only a matter of time and till the sets can no longer work without maintenance, and presumably the toilets have both been long since out of order

 

[380101]

Thanks, the emergency timetable will certainly help things unit-wise I guess but it's presumably only a matter of time and till the sets can no longer work without maintenance, and presumably the toilets have both been long since out of order

The reduction to 2 trains each way per day will stretch the mileage based maintenance schedules out a fair bit. Toilet water tanks can be filled at Stranraer, and I suspect they'll have mobile CET de-tanking and re-fueling carried out in the engineers siding at Girvan.

 

[MadMac]

There are 2 x 156 units south of Ayr. Not sure whether they've coupled them up to make a 4 car or not. An emergency timetable starts tomorrow with 2 trains either way Stranraer - Girvan per day.

It was mentioned somewhere that one unit is sitting in the siding at Girvan.

Couple of questions that come to mind:

Any word yet on a “game plan” to get things back to normal?

What happens at the moment with the signallers at Kilkerran? They have no trains to signal…..

 

[380101]

It was mentioned somewhere that one unit is sitting in the siding at Girvan.

Couple of questions that come to mind:

Any word yet on a “game plan” to get things back to normal?

What happens at the moment with the signallers at Kilkerran? They have no trains to signal…..

No idea on the Kilkerran signallers, I expect they'll be in the box as normal. Network Rail will probably take advantage of no trains running to do daytime track maintenance and they'll still have to take possessions etc.

As to a "game plan" for back to normal, at the moment there isn't one. SAC have only just taken over the hotel site complex to begin a structural examination and they've said it will last several weeks. ScotRail are saying the same in their latest update on social media this afternoon. I expect that they will be demolishing the South wing, which will mean removing the station concourse canopy, as it is fixed to the hotel walls.

My best guess is no trains this side of Xmas into Ayr.

 

[Blindtraveler]

With presumably a short reopening under very controlled conditions of the railway when safe to do so to release the trapped units back to Glasgow, either under their own power or dragged

 

[zwk500]

A law change in which derelict private property which is destroyed in suspicious fires, or other unlawful ways, automatically becomes the property of the state along with the land it sits on.

This will incentivise more fires, as you take the liability off the owner's hands. No, the solution is for the relevant authorities to prevent the situation getting into this state in the first place.

 

[Falcon1200]

National Rail Enquiries now saying disruption until at least the end of Sunday 15th October;

Incident: Ayr | National Rail

Disruption between Ayr and Prestwick Town / Girvan / Kilmarnock until at least the end of February. Find details of all current incidents on National Rail Enquiries.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

On Monday 25 September, a property was on fire near the railway at Ayr. Although the fire has now been extinguished, Ayr station remains closed for safety reasons. Trains are still unable to run to, from or through Ayr.
Disruption is expected until at least the end of the day on Sunday 15 October.

 

[Ayrshire Roy]

I went in to Ayr for a look this morning.
From what I could see through the gaps in the sheets doesn't look good.
It looks like there has been internal collapses in a few locations.
You can see straight through to the windows on the other side and daylight lighting up some areas floors down from the roof.
The whole area has been fenced off and there is visible security guards wandering about.
I walked round to Townhead sidings and there are no units trapped at all.
Picture 7 shows signs of internal collapse through a window.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The whole area has been fenced off and there is visible security guards wandering about.

Perhaps this would have been a good idea before the latest fire!

Reference is made (elsewhere) to the absent owners. Other than them being 'abroad/foreign' has the local press or anyone given any indication of who the owners might be?

Picture 2, doorway at base: Welcome to Ayr Scotrail

 

[hexagon789]

Other than them being 'abroad/foreign' has the local press or anyone given any indication of who the owners might be?

Yes, a Malaysian business tycoon by the name of Eng Huat Ung. He has owned the hotel since 2010, it closed to guests in 2012.

 

[zwk500]

Perhaps this would have been a good idea before the latest fire!

Reference is made (elsewhere) to the absent owners. Other than them being 'abroad/foreign' has the local press or anyone given any indication of who the owners might be?

Ayr railway station - South Ayrshire Council

www.south-ayrshire.gov.uk

From South Ayrshire council's webpage:

Who owns the building?​

Ayr Station Hotel, which occupies most of the building, is privately owned by a Malaysian businessman by the name of Mr Ung, who has a registered business address in London. The ground floor of the north wing is owned by Network Rail and housed the station's ticket office and all other station facilities.

Also relevant here is this passage:

So, what happens now?​

In December 2022, following a report produced by Mott MacDonald, the Council took a decision to demolish the southern section of the privately owned building under the statutory powers of the Building (Scotland) Act 2003. Funding will need to be found to carry out this work.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Yes, a Malaysian business tycoon by the name of Eng Huat Ung. He has owned the hotel since 2010, it closed to guests in 2012.

Ayr railway station - South Ayrshire Council

www.south-ayrshire.gov.uk

From South Ayrshire council's webpage:

Also relevant here is this passage:

Thanks both, didn't want to go down an internet rabbit hole and end up spend all afternoon going round in circles getting nowhere.

From Companies House:

Eng Huat UNG

DSS GLOBAL LONDON LIMITED (13213668)

Company status

Active

DSS GLOBAL INVESTMENTS LIMITED (11555858)

Company status

Dissolved

STATION HOTEL (AYR) LIMITED (07420695)

Company status

Dissolved

STATION HOTEL AYR HOLDINGS LIMITED (07401854)

Company status

Dissolved

COUNTRY HAVEN LTD (07118713)

Company status

Dissolved

DSS GLOBAL LTD (12129969)

Company status

Active

 

[Dr_Paul]

I really, really hope that following the Crooked House debacle there is indeed a change and the trend of "inconvenient" historic buildings "going on fire" can be halted. I'm willing to bet that everyone has an example of this happening in a historic, vacant building in their local area that has mysteriously gone up in flames and everyone knows why but nothing can be done. It's time to change that.

A notorious case where I live, which I briefly mentioned above, was the former Hodgskin's Brewery in Kingston, which in the late 1960s or early 1970s was standing empty, and which mysteriously but very conveniently went on fire and had to be demolished. Office blocks and a multistorey car-park soon went up.

 

[380101]

Been made aware that there is now a large demolition spec excavator sitting in front of the Station Hotel on the Burns Statue Square side. Delivered in yesterday evening.

 

[zwk500]

Been made aware that there is now a large demolition spec excavator sitting in front of the Station Hotel on the Burns Statue Square side. Delivered in yesterday evening.

Sad no doubt, but about time in this saga.

 

[PsychoMouse]

I'm hearing the line could be shut for 6-8 weeks.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Wouldn't surprise me, they will I presume have to cause much more damage and disruption to the site while they demolish bits of or indeed all of it before some kind of semblance of order can be restored to the railway operations which will presumably involve some repairs and other stuff

 

[380101]

Fire Brigade are back in attendance this evening after the discovery of a small fire that has reignited within the wreckage.

 

[snookertam]

I'm hearing the line could be shut for 6-8 weeks.

And even that is optimistic.

Those old enough may remember the prolonged Argyle Line closure after severe flooding in the mid 1990s. That’s the sort of closure we are potentially looking at here.

 

[MadMac]

And even that is optimistic.

Those old enough may remember the prolonged Argyle Line closure after severe flooding in the mid 1990s. That’s the sort of closure we are potentially looking at here.

I worked on the recovery after that. Shut for nine months. That’s by no means outwith the bounds of possibility here. I suspect they’ll remove as much railway infrastructure as possible pre-demolition if safe to do so.


South Ayrshire Council have posted a short drone video of the South wing HERE.

 

[sannox]

South Ayrshire Council have posted a short drone video of the South wing HERE.

That looks like a demo job.

 

[MadMac]

That looks like a demo job.

Yeah, it’s now a question of how they do it.

 

[380101]

The carpark on Smith Street, platform one side of the station has now become portacabin city in the last couple of days.

I'd say this certainly suggests that they'll be demolishing at least part of the building to make it safe enough to resume some sort of railway operations.

The taxi bill for ScotRail moving traincrew at the start and finish of their jobs from/to Ayr will fast become unsustainable if the disruption lasts for more than two or three months.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Failure to demolish it all will simply result in the rest of it going on fire again. Enough is enough I think

 

[Strathclyder]

Yeah, it’s now a question of how they do it.

I would suggest something similar to how the Gallowgate Twins in Glasgow's East End were brought down (dismantled piece by piece) in 2015-16, but they were a completely different kettle of fish. They weren't severely fire-damaged for one thing, nor were they directly attached to a railway station (they did loom right over the North Clyde Line though, which was partly why they weren't imploded like the Red Road towers a few miles to the north were). Whatever method is chosen, this will doubtlessly be an even more painstaking job than the Twins.

Sad no doubt, but about time in this saga.

About a decade overdue imho. The owner clearly wasn't going to do much with it apart from letting it rot while blowing off any attempts the council made at communication. As much as it pains me to say it: enough is enough. Put the thing out of it's misery already.

Knock it down and stop crying over split milk.

No doubt this is going to happen now, but this 'split milk' has been a complete, utter and increasingly dangerous farce. It's frankly a miracle no-one was injured here.

If the don't take the opportunity to move the frankly appalling bus station to a new transport hub at the station, then I really do despair

Agreed. As noted above though, something like this would require cooperation between South Ayrshire Council, ScotRail, Network Rail, Transport Scotland and the local bus operators (primarily Stagecoach), to say nothing of raising the finances for such a project. I would like to see something like this happen for the same reasons (moving on from this sorry mess, replacing that dive of a bus station etc), but I'm not holding my breath.

And even that is optimistic.

Those old enough may remember the prolonged Argyle Line closure after severe flooding in the mid 1990s. That’s the sort of closure we are potentially looking at here.

I worked on the recovery after that. Shut for nine months. That’s by no means outwith the bounds of possibility here. I suspect they’ll remove as much railway infrastructure as possible pre-demolition if safe to do so.

Nine months to over a year is what I'm thinking is going to happen here. Any eariler reopening date is just hopeless optimism at this point. That this is now necessary is utterly shambolic and a damning inditement on the parties involved for letting it drag on to this point, but nowt else to do now but grit one's teeth and endure it. I would like to think lessons will be learned from this, but the cynic in me highly doubts it.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I would suggest something similar to how the Gallowgate Twins in Glasgow's East End were brought down (dismantled piece by piece) in 2015-16, but they were a completely different kettle of fish. They weren't severely fire-damaged for one thing, nor were they directly attached to a railway station (they did loom right over the North Clyde Line though, which was partly why they weren't imploded like the Red Road towers a few miles to the north were). Whatever method is chosen, it will doubtlessly be an even more painstaking job than the Twins.

About a decade overdue imho. The owner clearly wasn't going to do much with it apart from letting it rot while blowing off any attempts the council made at communication. Enough is enough, put the thing out of it's misery already.

No doubt this is going to happen now, but this 'split milk' has been a complete, utter and increasingly dangerous farce. It's frankly a miracle no-one was injured here.

As noted above, something like this would require cooperation between South Ayrshire Council, ScotRail, Network Rail, Transport Scotland and the local bus operators (primarily Stagecoach), to say nothing of raising the finances for such a project. I would like to see something like this happen for the same reasons (moving on from this sorry mess, replacing that dive of a bus station etc), but I'm not holding my breath.

Nine months to over a year is what I'm thinking is going to happen here. Any eariler reopening date is just hopeless optimism at this point. That this is now necessary is utterly shambolic, but nowt else to do now but grit one's teeth and endure it. I would like to think lessons will be learned from this, but the cynic in me highly doubts it.

I completely agree with all of your points. Demolition I feel is really the only outcome and I think the request from the historic architects is probably one of wishful rather than realistic thinking.

A outcome you’d think hopefully will be announced fairly soon. I think the locals do need some clarity as to how long this situation is going to last. What started as problems reported for a few hours quickly turned to days and now will be months.

It’s an opportunity to start new. Yes a piece of local history is gone and in undoubtedly questionable circumstances as to how we got here.

Focusing on the railway side of things. The 156’s will be eventually unusable. They can’t have long left before they’re due exams? I still think it’s a miracle that the carriage sidings are not used during the day anymore as a result nothing was trapped in the immediate proximity to the station and hotel. Then if this lasts something like 6-9 months, you’ll have lapses in Train Crew competency as well so it would take a small amount of time added on when the line does reopen for competency to be regained.

Lastly part of the station offices are off limits and may also have to be demolished due to their proximity and attachment to the hotel, which includes the canopy. There’s then going to have to be a solution to all of that as well. Again, that will make the railway unusable and temporary accommodation will need to be found for the crews in the medium term until a replacement is completed.

Whatever happens, this is going to take some time and Ayr Station and the surrounding area is going to look very different at the end of it.

 

[380101]

I completely agree with all of your points. Demolition I feel is really the only outcome and I think the request from the historic architects is probably one of wishful rather than realistic thinking.

A outcome you’d think hopefully will be announced fairly soon. I think the locals do need some clarity as to how long this situation is going to last. What started as problems reported for a few hours quickly turned to days and now will be months.

It’s an opportunity to start new. Yes a piece of local history is gone and in undoubtedly questionable circumstances as to how we got here.

Focusing on the railway side of things. The 156’s will be eventually unusable. They can’t have long left before they’re due exams? I still think it’s a miracle that the carriage sidings are not used during the day anymore as a result nothing was trapped in the immediate proximity to the station and hotel. Then if this lasts something like 6-9 months, you’ll have lapses in Train Crew competency as well so it would take a small amount of time added on when the line does reopen for competency to be regained.

Lastly part of the station offices are off limits and may also have to be demolished due to their proximity and attachment to the hotel, which includes the canopy. There’s then going to have to be a solution to all of that as well. Again, that will make the railway unusable and temporary accommodation will need to be found for the crews in the medium term until a replacement is completed.

Whatever happens, this is going to take some time and Ayr Station and the surrounding area is going to look very different at the end of it.

All management, supervisors and traincrew facilities are housed in the modular building that was constructed at the North end of platform 4 back in 2020. Prior to that, they were in portacabins since being displaced from the ground floor facilities on platform 1 in June 2018.

The only facilities that remained on the platform 1 side were the temporary booking office and sundries office.

 

[DelW]

Focusing on the railway side of things. The 156’s will be eventually unusable. They can’t have long left before they’re due exams? I still think it’s a miracle that the carriage sidings are not used during the day anymore as a result nothing was trapped in the immediate proximity to the station and hotel.

It should be reasonably easy to move them out by road, with replacements being delivered the same way. That's been done on various previous occasions when units have been isolated by infrastructure failures like bridge collapses.

Moving DMU coaches must be easier than steam or diesel locos, and heritage lines move those around the country by road on a regular basis. There's a well established sector of the haulage industry that specialises in such work.