Ayr Station Hotel Fire 28/05/2023 and now on fire again 25/09/2023

[benbristow]

A shame. The station already looks like a construction site, now it'll look even worse.

https://twitter.com/NetworkRailSCOT/status/1662851642599809025

Fire breaks out at Station Hotel in Ayr as emergency crews race to scene

Fire crews are on the scene at the site of the abandoned hotel.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

A fire has broken out at the abandoned Station Hotel in Ayr this afternoon, sparking an emergency service response.

Fire and ambulance crews are currently on scene in the centre of the town, with smoke seen billowing from the south end of the building.

Crowds are gathering to witness the response effort with one eyewitness telling Ayrshire Live: "It's a sad sight and smoke seems to be pouring from the back of the building.

 

[185143]

Would I be being being cynical in calling it arson?

The issues relating to the property have been kept far from secret over the last few years, to the point platforms had to be closed due to fear of collapse...

 

[Ashley Hill]

Would I be being being cynical in calling it arson?

My first thought. How convenient for the owner.

 

[Stathern Jc]

Was there a fire there some years ago?
Or is it just years of neglect and dilapidation?

 

[benbristow]

Would I be being being cynical in calling it arson?

The issues relating to the property have been kept far from secret over the last few years, to the point platforms had to be closed due to fear of collapse...

It's not an uncommon occurrence for buildings to 'randomly' burn down in the west of Scotland.

Ayrshire Daily News

The fire at the station hotel in Ayr now appears to be under control, it’s not yet known the extent of any damage to the building internally.

www.facebook.com

Apologies for Facebook link but apparently under control now...

The fire at the station hotel in Ayr now appears to be under control, it’s not yet known the extent of any damage to the building internally.

 

[NotATrainspott]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-heritage-could-rescue-building.229408/page-3

If nothing else, the bare minimum a building needs is proper reinstatement insurance. The cost of insuring Ayr station hotel for complete reinstatement would be well in excess of what a hotel operation could viably afford. Without that insurance solidly in place, all it takes is an accidental fire and the problem will just disappear in a big plume of smoke. Without any insurance coverage, there is no way to reinstate the building, so the listing becomes an irrelevance. It's not very often that councils can insist on reinstatement years after a building is gone. There's a hotel on the Royal Mile where the top floors were lost in the 70s from fire, and the facade was only reinstated recently, but that's an unusual case in a strong economic zone.

Derelict buildings like this might not be set on fire deliberately, but unless the landowner is actively paying the very large amount of money needed for 24/7 security, it is inevitable that the ne'er-do-wells will find a way in and eventually set it on fire. The owner doesn't need to do anything illegal. And, unless the council is willing to pay for that security, no one else is going to provide it instead.

 

[duncanp]

It seems inevitable that the hotel will either fall down or burn down eventually, especially if the fire compromises the structural integrity of a building that is already falling to bits.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-heritage-could-rescue-building.229408/page-3



Derelict buildings like this might not be set on fire deliberately, but unless the landowner is actively paying the very large amount of money needed for 24/7 security, it is inevitable that the ne'er-do-wells will find a way in and eventually set it on fire. The owner doesn't need to do anything illegal. And, unless the council is willing to pay for that security, no one else is going to provide it instead.

Indeed. Plus the ne'er-do-wells may not have arson in mind, just set a bit of a fire to keep warm (or something) which then takes hold unexpectedly.

 

[zwk500]

It's also possible that the building just degrades to the point where an unfortunate chain of events leads to a fire to take hold from natural events - a conductive metal exposed in direct sunlight and in contact with something combustible has happened before.

 

[och aye]

My first thought. How convenient for the owner.

An insurance job? Surely not!

 

[The Puddock]

Would I be being being cynical in calling it arson?

My first thought. How convenient for the owner.

Derelict buildings like this might not be set on fire deliberately, but unless the landowner is actively paying the very large amount of money needed for 24/7 security, it is inevitable that the ne'er-do-wells will find a way in and eventually set it on fire. The owner doesn't need to do anything illegal. And, unless the council is willing to pay for that security, no one else is going to provide it instead.

An insurance job? Surely not!

The fire was set by two teenagers, one of whom has been caught and arrested.

 

[benbristow]

The fire was set by two teenagers, one of whom has been caught and arrested.

Hey, you there, set this on fire for us and I'll grab you some cans of Dragon Soop

 

[6Gman]

A friend of mine who was closely involved with the Church of England used to say that every Bishop should employ a Diocesan Arsonist.

 

[Southsider]

It's not an uncommon occurrence for buildings to 'randomly' burn down in the west of Scotland.

Commonly known as ‘doing a Stakis’ after an unfortunate restaurant owner who lost a number of business premises to unexpected fires.

 

[Winthorpe]

A similar event in Manchester. Hardy’s Well pub was demolished after an arson attack a few days ago.

Landmark Lemn Sissay poem pub flattened after fire - BBC News

Lemn Sissay says he had a soft spot for the Hardy's Well pub in Rusholme where he used to drink.

www.bbc.co.uk

A blaze damaged the derelict Hardy's Well in Rusholme, Manchester, on Wednesday, Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service said.
The building which dates back almost 200 years was subsequently deemed unsafe after a multi-agency meeting.

 

[jagardner1984]

Was here last week before the fire and really is a sorry sight. Access to the station is messy and illogical (for a first time visitor) and numerous smashed windows and light Heras fencing line around it. It seems no surprise it has been targeted like this.

Also a historic building of some significance in the town that should obviously be properly restored in one way or another so it can be useful public space. Cordoned off derelict buildings tend to end in one way - and we have a rich history of those in the west of Scotland.

This part of Ayr in general is in real need of regeneration - and the town has a lot going for it should some money be spent.

 

[zwk500]

Also a historic building of some significance in the town that should obviously be properly restored in one way or another so it can be useful public space. Cordoned off derelict buildings tend to end in one way - and we have a rich history of those in the west of Scotland.

Is there anything left preserving? At this point it feels like restoration would be pouring good money after bad directly into a sewer, so why not end the purgatory? The issue AIUI is the owner will neither permit any work to be done nor engage with any effort to purchase, I don't know Scottish law on this point but is there not a mechanism for the government at some level to take possession of the building and dispose of the site in the most effective way?
Take over the site, level the building, then build a modern building in a sympathetic style that provides whatever the town is missing - flats, shops, whatever (but I doubt it's a luxury hotel).

 

[jagardner1984]

Certainly the external structure looked fairly robust. There is certainly Compulsory purchase legislation here. I assume there is an issue of listed building - but this is normally done by building control declaring it an unsafe structure and ordering partial or complete demolition. It is a fairly well trodden path in these parts for buildings after a dubious fire and whose demolition is very convenient.

As much as I agree with your point - another copy and paste Glass and steel box would I feel be a shame replacing such an impressive building - though doing nothing is also a pretty rubbish option.

 

[zwk500]

Certainly the external structure looked fairly robust. There is certainly Compulsory purchase legislation here. I assume there is an issue of listed building - but this is normally done by building control declaring it an unsafe structure and ordering partial or complete demolition. It is a fairly well trodden path in these parts for buildings after a dubious fire and whose demolition is very convenient.

Thanks for confirming.

As much as I agree with your point - another copy and paste Glass and steel box would I feel be a shame replacing such an impressive building - though doing nothing is also a pretty rubbish option.

When I say 'modern' building there's nothing to stop it being built with bricks and stone - just to modern standards of insulation and fire resistance. Although the structure may appear robust now you'd rather not wait for another collapse that closes the railway station.

 

[jagardner1984]

Thanks for confirming.

When I say 'modern' building there's nothing to stop it being built with bricks and stone - just to modern standards of insulation and fire resistance. Although the structure may appear robust now you'd rather not wait for another collapse that closes the railway station.

Yes - there is a particular tradition of what to me is very uninspired architecture which often seems very out of keeping to an area. There is certainly beautiful modern architecture, I Just don’t seem to see much of it in the wild !

No disrespect intended as there are a lot of things going for Ayr as a town - beautiful coastline etc - but Also a cityscape of a lot of very run down buildings - really needs some regeneration and celebration of its history.

 

[Falcon1200]

Also a historic building of some significance in the town that should obviously be properly restored in one way or another so it can be useful public space.

The building is indeed in a sorry state, and does give a very poor impression, but what could it realistically be used for? Also, at what cost, and who would pay?
I'm not sure either that apart from being old the building has any particular historic or architectural merit?

 

[Buzby]

Just wait - followings site clearance, there’ll be a Portacabin in the car park and bus shelters on the platforms, and that’ll last 30+ years. As I recall, the council were talking of making the station forecourt a ‘transport hub’.

 

[clc]

Thankfully it looks like the north wing is unscathed so there is still hope for that part of the building. The council had already decided in December that demolishing the south wing was the way forward. The relevant Notice was to be served on the owner and if he didn’t carry out the demolition then the council would have to arrange demolition and find the £6.6 million that it would cost. It would take 18 months to get the necessary approvals for disruptive access so it’ll be a while yet before demolition begins.

 

[Brush 4]

What can the owner do from Hong Kong or wherever he is, to stop restoration or safety repair work taking place? He can't issue fines so, some sort of court injunction perhaps? If that was challenged in court then what?

 

[zwk500]

What can the owner do from Hong Kong or wherever he is, to stop restoration or safety repair work taking place? He can't issue fines so, some sort of court injunction perhaps? If that was challenged in court then what?

He can make it incredibly expensive for anybody who tries to touch it. And it is very rare for people to get blocked from submitting requests for injunctions or whatnot as vexations litigants. He could easily cost the council tens of millions of pounds in legal fees.

 

[ian1944]

The fire was set by two teenagers, one of whom has been caught and arrested.

There is a missing "allegedly" there, whatever you believe.

 

[NotATrainspott]

The owner isn't doing it out of spite: he's trying to maximise gains, and minimise losses, within the limits of the law. Permission to repair the building is one thing but what really matters is the funding. Part of the reason we end up in situations like this is that owners think there's a chance that the state will cough up the cost of the repairs if they just hold out long enough. Well-meaning heritage campaigners can make things worse here. If an owner knew there was zero possibility that repairs would be funded, their range of options would narrow and some sort of sale or legal abandonment of the property could become the least bad option.

 

[a_c_skinner]

A friend of mine who was closely involved with the Church of England used to say that every Bishop should employ a Diocesan Arsonist.

I too have suggested that. It is the way out for buildings that have served their purpose and with luck this will lead to demolition of the hotel.

 

[Russel]

Well, I've been expecting this thread for a couple of years!

It's probably time to nip down to Betfred to put a bet on how long it'll be until the application for an apartment building goes in.

For anyone not familiar with the subject of Glasgow and the West of Scotlands abandoned buildings going up in smoke, I'd recommend a read through this long running thread on Skyscrapercity.

The 'not in any way suspicious' buildings gutted by fire thread

 

[JamesT]

Well, I've been expecting this thread for a couple of years!

It's probably time to nip down to Betfred to put a bet on how long it'll be until the application for an apartment building goes in.

For anyone not familiar with the subject of Glasgow and the West of Scotlands abandoned buildings going up in smoke, I'd recommend a read through this long running thread on Skyscrapercity.

The 'not in any way suspicious' buildings gutted by fire thread

Couldn't the council refuse planning permission and require the owners to rebuild as it was? Similar to https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...n-pub-rebuilt-brick-by-brick-after-bulldozing

Robertson and 5,300 other locals, including several local councillors, mobilised to persuade Westminster council to act.

It ordered the owners, CTLX, to rebuild the Carlton brick by brick. A planning inquiry the following year confirmed the decision, ruling that the pub should be rebuilt “in facsimile”, from the red bricks to the distinctive tiled pub name.

Or does Scottish law not work the same in this case?