Killingworth
Established Member
Nearer 2.I estimate around 10-12mph.
Nearer 2.I estimate around 10-12mph.
Nearer 2.
OTMR should give the true figure…The first reply was correct the driver reported hitting the stock at around 10mph.
I wasn’t aware that HRA guidance such as this was mandatory for their members, I understood it to be simply ‘best practice’ that their member organisations may incorporate into their own procedures?
Don't the ORR regulate the RSSB for the mainline and therefore endorse it's output?Correct, HRA guidance not mandatory. HRA is a trade body and membership is not mandatory, and indeed the ORR "endorsement" could be argued to be rather inappropriate as they don't endorse stuff produced by any other railway trade body.
Shared mainline guidance has a clear practicality where multiple users share the same infrastructure. But with a myriad of different private railways which don't even have the same gauge..... much less useful or relevant.
TPO
No. RSSB is an independent incorporated body whose Directors are drawn from Members, it is NOT a Railway Undertaking.Don't the ORR regulate the RSSB for the mainline and therefore endorse it's output?
At around 18:05 hrs on 29 September 2023, the steam locomotive ‘Flying Scotsman’ collided with a set of stationary passenger coaches at Aviemore station. The collision occurred at approximately 7 mph (11 km/h). The part of Aviemore station where the collision happened is operated by the Strathspey Railway, which is a heritage railway.
The collision resulted in injuries being caused to a number of passengers and staff, with one passenger and one member of staff being taken to hospital. No rail vehicles derailed as a result of the accident, although some damage was caused to the vehicles involved.
Our investigation will seek to identify the sequence of events leading up to the accident. It will also consider:
Our investigation is independent of any investigation by the railway industry or by the industry’s regulator, the Office of Rail and Road.
- the actions of those involved and anything that may have influenced them
- the management of the railway staff involved in the accident, including their training and competence
- the method of operation in use when the collision occurred and the policies and procedures in place for managing such operations
- the extent and type of any injuries and damage caused, and how they occurred
- any underlying management factors.
We will publish our findings, including any recommendations to improve safety, at the conclusion of our investigation. This report will be available on our website.
This is going to be an interesting read. Word on the street is that it was Strathspey railway staff at the controls of the FS at the time of the collision.The RAIB are investigating this incident and have confirmed the broad scope of their report:
Collision at Aviemore station
Investigation into a collision at Aviemore station on the Strathspey Railway, Highland, 29 September 2023.www.gov.uk
Was that not supposed to be the case then?This is going to be an interesting read. Word on the street is that it was Strathspey railway staff at the controls of the FS at the time of the collision.
Was that not supposed to be the case then?
Wouldn't be the first time heritage railway staff have had an unofficial go on a celebrity locomotive. I do know of a Deltic (that was actually only on static display) being taken for a clandestine drive one evening back in the 1990s. Fortunately that passed without incident, other than other staff half-heartedly denouncing the chap (I suspect they were actually rathe jealous he hadn't invited them along for the ride! )
Was that not supposed to be the case then?
Wouldn't be the first time heritage railway staff have had an unofficial go on a celebrity locomotive. I do know of a Deltic (that was actually only on static display) being taken for a clandestine drive one evening back in the 1990s. Fortunately that passed without incident, other than other staff half-heartedly denouncing the chap (I suspect they were actually rathe jealous he hadn't invited them along for the ride! )
I don't, but this wording:How do you know it was unofficial? How do you know that the normal way of working is not for Strathspey staff to operate the train on SR infrastructure and mainline drivers potentially not even signing the route?
I don't, but this wording:
This is going to be an interesting read. Word on the street is that it was Strathspey railway staff at the controls of the FS at the time of the collision.
made me think that perhaps Strathspey railway staff weren't meant to be at the controls.
I guess the insurers will be discussing liability amongst themselves and in the event of a stalemate members of the legal profession will be only too happy to offer their servicesThe stock from the Royal Scotsman has only just gone south from Aviemore 2 days ago. Multiple cancellations of RS tours since the incident. There’s going to be some big sums of money involved in lost revenue.
RAIB say approx 7mph. Flying Scotsman should have OTMR fitted, so presumably taken from a download of the data.Nearer 2.
I was quite impressed to spot on simply by timing the loco on the video (post #214 above)!RAIB say approx 7mph. Flying Scotsman should have OTMR fitted, so presumably taken from a download of the data.
RAIB say approx 7mph. Flying Scotsman should have OTMR fitted, so presumably taken from a download of the data.
I imagine they'd notice the recorded speed almost instantly drop from 7 to 0mph.How would the OTMR record the collision ? Does it have a crash detector ? Would they look the GPS location and train speed at the collision point ?
How do you think they can tell...?How would the OTMR record the collision ? Does it have a crash detector ? Would they look the GPS location and train speed at the collision point ?
How would the OTMR record the collision ? Does it have a crash detector ? Would they look the GPS location and train speed at the collision point ?
I imagine they'd notice the recorded speed almost instantly drop from 7 to 0mph.
Would the OTDR evidence be included in the final report ? I don't remember ever seeing one in a RAIB report (that I can recall) ; although I'm sure they have.
What type of OTDR does the Scotsman have ?
Cheers in advance.
Can’t answer the second one but in the recent Loversall Carr incident (https://assets.publishing.service.g...5d/R082023_230803_Loversall_Carr_Junction.pdf) various bits of evidence were taken from the OTDR, such as the time the driver entered their details, their failure to carry out a running brake test, and the time taken to cancel AWS warnings.
How do you think they can tell...?
This assuming that the OTMR was operational. IIRC in the RAIB report of 34067 'Tangmere' failing near Winchfield a few years back the OTMR was found to be non-operational so they didn't have any relevant data to download.RAIB say approx 7mph. Flying Scotsman should have OTMR fitted, so presumably taken from a download of the data.