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Confirmed : HS2 West Midlands-Manchester line to be scrapped and replaced with other projects.

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6Gman

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Or maybe, given that Anglesey is being marketed as Energy Island recently, this is a plan to finally build the LOOOOONG aborted idea to extend the Gaerwen-Amlwch onward to Cemaes, and thence to Valley? :P

(I say that with tongue firmly in cheek: I'm not aware of that being seriously proposed since the 19th century.)
Or an Amlwch-Barrow tunnel to link the Energy Island to the Energy Coast!

8-)
 

Arkeeos

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I don't know if anyone has linked this already?
http://www.greengauge21.net/hs2-curtailed/
(Gist - at least preserve the option of phase 2a - which isn’t even particularly expensive - and don't tie Euston down to 6 platforms for ever.)
Its asking the government to be reasonable and consider analysing different options. This is the cancellation of the largest infrastructure project in the country with a 40 page document that has spelling mistakes. There is no reasonability, this is an abitrary spiteful desicion by Sunak because he personally doesn't like HS2.
 

brad465

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Apologies if this has already been brought up in this fast expanding thread, but it probably won't come as a surprise that the "Network North" plans are quickly unravelling:


The Government has U-turned on its commitment to reopen the Leamside railway line, just 24 hours after making the massive announcement.

A restoration of the mothballed line, which runs from Pelaw in Gateshead to Tursdale in County Durham, was included in initial announcements about the ‘Network North’ programme revealed by Rishi Sunak on Wednesday. The Prime Minister pledged to invest in hundreds of transport projects around the North and Midlands, using £36bn he says will be saved by scrapping the northern leg of HS2.


But, just a day later, all reference to reopening the Leamside Line has been removed from the Network North website and the promise seemingly abandoned. Speaking to the Local Democracy Reporting Service on Thursday lunchtime, roads minister Richard Holden confirmed that the Government was simply “committed to looking into” the Leamside Line project.

Louise Haigh has also been highlighting many disappearing "projects".
 

Bald Rick

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Apart from being in a far less densely populated country, they don't dither around with endless consultations and burying to (not) appease the Chilterns. They just get on and build it.

Less populated country - correct.

Consultations / appeasements / getting on and building - incorrect. The French tend to take even longer than we do on that. And they do change their minds. Look at the history of the LGV between Bordeaux - Toulouse / Dax for that. The public inquiry was held 18 years ago. Ministers confirmed it would be built 10 years ago. Consent was granted 7-8 years ago. It is still not under construction. Various changes have been made to win the locals over, including Gare des Betteraves for Agen and Montauban. The Dax bit is doubtful. With a following wind the Bordeaux - Toulouse bit might open in about a decade. It is entirely in open country, with little in the way of difficult country to negotiate.
 

345 050

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Every proposal I've seen has been for 4 - one Manchester, two Brum (don't go near Handsacre) and the North Wales, so a net gain of 1.



No it won't. Phase 1 is all 200m except Birmingham. 400m trains don't fit existing stations.
Since we are now limited to 6 platforms at Euston would it make sense to do 400m trains for Birmingham and then 2x200m trains for Liverpool/Manchester, splitting at Interchange? Could also do 2x200m splitting at Interchange for Edinburgh/Glasgow? Just trying to think of the best way to make the most of what we have left...
 

HSTEd

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Since we are now limited to 6 platforms at Euston would it make sense to do 400m trains for Birmingham and then 2x200m trains for Liverpool/Manchester, splitting at Interchange? Could also do 2x200m splitting at Interchange for Edinburgh/Glasgow? Just trying to think of the best way to make the most of what we have left...
Order a dozen 400m sets and the rest as 275m or similar length.
 

JonathanH

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Since we are now limited to 6 platforms at Euston would it make sense to do 400m trains for Birmingham and then 2x200m trains for Liverpool/Manchester, splitting at Interchange? Could also do 2x200m splitting at Interchange for Edinburgh/Glasgow? Just trying to think of the best way to make the most of what we have left...
Just split the platforms in two and have a front train and a back train that set off separately.
 

Bald Rick

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Since we are now limited to 6 platforms at Euston would it make sense to do 400m trains for Birmingham and then 2x200m trains for Liverpool/Manchester, splitting at Interchange? Could also do 2x200m splitting at Interchange for Edinburgh/Glasgow? Just trying to think of the best way to make the most of what we have left...

You could, but the Scousers would be upset at being the portion that always has to wait for the Mancs.
 

Roast Veg

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This Guardian report (apologies for the paywall) suggests that Sunak has authorized the sale of CPOd land already - but shouldn't that be impossible as the Act of Parliament for HS2 phase 2a hasn't yet been revoked?

A future Labour government would not be able to easily reverse Rishi Sunak’s decision to scrap the northern leg of HS2 as he has “spitefully” authorised the sale of properties that were subject to compulsory purchase orders on part of the route.

Steve Rotheram, the mayor of the Liverpool city region, said the move killed HS2 “stone dead” and would “tie any future government’s hands and make the delivery of HS2 for the north all but impossible”.
 
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Bald Rick

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This Guardian report (apologies for the paywall) suggests that Sunak has authorized the sale of CPOd land already - but shouldn't that be impossible as the Act of Parliament for HS2 phase 2a hasn't yet been revoked?

I’m not sure the Orders for Compulsory Purchase have been made, the sales will be for land that has been bought by negotiation (which is most of it).

An absolute travesty, obviously.

The atmosphere in the office today was the most angry and scathing I have ever known. Lots of people worried about their jobs. Everyone has seen through this for what it is.
 

Roast Veg

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I’m not sure the Orders for Compulsory Purchase have been made, the sales will be for land that has been bought by negotiation (which is most of it).

An absolute travesty, obviously.

The atmosphere in the office today was the most angry and scathing I have ever known. Lots of people worried about their jobs. Everyone has seen through this for what it is.
I'm very sorry to hear how it has affected you and others in the industry. I sincerely hope that the industry can pressure the decision makers to stem some of the bleeding here.

It still seems to be that the sale of critical land against the orders of a parliamentary act ought to trigger a parliamentary review and halt the sale?
 

JonathanH

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It still seems to be that the sale of critical land against the orders of a parliamentary act ought to trigger a parliamentary review and halt the sale?
The ruling party has more than sufficient people in parliament to win a vote to repeal the act.
 

Roast Veg

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The ruling party has more than sufficient people in parliament to win a vote to repeal the act.
Do they have enough power in the whips to command it though? Some non-cabinet tory MPs have openly criticised the decision. In any case, selling off assets critical to a promised act of parliament that you expect to have repealed is still doing it without due process and ought to be subject to scrutiny.
 

21C101

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I’m not sure the Orders for Compulsory Purchase have been made, the sales will be for land that has been bought by negotiation (which is most of it).

An absolute travesty, obviously.

The atmosphere in the office today was the most angry and scathing I have ever known. Lots of people worried about their jobs. Everyone has seen through this for what it is.

The 1955 drivers strike (which caused the sort of chaos the 2001 petrol blockade did), as well as losing a huge amount of rail freight to the roads for good (holing BRs finances below the waterline), resulted in a decision to build the motorways so that ASLEF would no longer have their hands the throat of the economy. The money switched to motorway building made Beechings cuts inevitable.

Weve now had two years of strikes and I suspect that has immensely helped those who despised HS2 from day 1.
 

Bald Rick

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The 1955 drivers strike (which caused the sort of chaos the 2001 petrol blockade did), as well as losing a huge amount of rail freight to the roads for good, resulted in a decision to build the motorways so that ASLEF wouldn't have their throat round the economy. The money used for that made Beechings cuts inevitable.

Weve now had two years of strikes and I suspect that has immensely helped those who despised HS2 from day 1.

The strikes won’t have helped, but that isn’t the reason this has happened.

(And the fuel blockade was late summer 2000).
 

Meerkat

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But what Labour should be doing is make lots of noise now (whatever their intentions) so any sell off of land fails as no one would be willing to buy then once (if) they are in power they can look at it all calmly but iof the land is already gone that`s game over.
Great, suggesting Labour lose the country another huge amount of cash, just as they did when they spiked the sale of the ROSCOs by promising a renationalisation that they didn’t do.
Is the northern chord of the Birmingham triangle needed for getting trains to the depot, even if no service trains use it?
 

21C101

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The strikes won’t have helped, but that isn’t the reason this has happened.

(And the fuel blockade was late summer 2000).
Its not the reason but would have boosted his case with the cabinet bigly
 

HSTEd

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The ruling party has more than sufficient people in parliament to win a vote to repeal the act.
I doubt it has enough time for it to matter.

Takes a year to be allowed to invoke the Parliament Act after all, the Lords will just sit on it until the election. Rishi Sunak certainly hasn't won an election on the position of repealing the act so the conventions do not apply.
 

Parjon

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Where's Piccadilly platforms 15 and 16? Joke of a government. Only in it for themselves.
Since a super high spec curvaceous multi-billion pound tunnel under Manchester is no longer needed, there are plenty of funds within a £12bn envelope for this. Assuming your combined authority can compromise with our combined authority.
 

HSTEd

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Since a super high spec curvaceous multi-billion pound tunnel under Manchester is no longer needed, there are plenty of funds within a £12bn envelope for this. Assuming your combined authority can compromise with our combined authority.
I doubt any such compromise will be possible.
In addition that project is dead and buried, regardless there is little point in four platforms at Piccadilly when Oxford Road is being cut to two or three through platforms in its pending rebuild.

It would take a decade or more to resurrect it.

Also, without that tunnel out of Manchester, NPR is impractical, there simply is not the space to do it on the surface.
 

brad465

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DfT trying to renegotiate Hitachi deal on number of trains needed/where they are needed:


HS2 has 54 trains on order from Hitachi/Alstom in a £2bn deal. DfT is apparently now suggesting that deal is renegotiated for a smaller number of trains with an alternative option of trying to find work elsewhere for those not needed for HS2 services.
 

MPW

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I'm very sorry to hear how it has affected you and others in the industry. I sincerely hope that the industry can pressure the decision makers to stem some of the bleeding here.

It still seems to be that the sale of critical land against the orders of a parliamentary act ought to trigger a parliamentary review and halt the sale?
Sorry to hear this Rick
 

eldomtom2

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Consultations / appeasements / getting on and building - incorrect. The French tend to take even longer than we do on that. And they do change their minds. Look at the history of the LGV between Bordeaux - Toulouse / Dax for that. The public inquiry was held 18 years ago. Ministers confirmed it would be built 10 years ago. Consent was granted 7-8 years ago. It is still not under construction. Various changes have been made to win the locals over, including Gare des Betteraves for Agen and Montauban. The Dax bit is doubtful. With a following wind the Bordeaux - Toulouse bit might open in about a decade. It is entirely in open country, with little in the way of difficult country to negotiate.
You're rather vague as to the causes of the failure to start construction...
 

Wolfie

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I'm very sorry to hear how it has affected you and others in the industry. I sincerely hope that the industry can pressure the decision makers to stem some of the bleeding here.

It still seems to be that the sale of critical land against the orders of a parliamentary act ought to trigger a parliamentary review and halt the sale?
Given that Sunak has already repeatedly peed off the Speaker it will be interesting to see if he acts....

I doubt it has enough time for it to matter.

Takes a year to be allowed to invoke the Parliament Act after all, the Lords will just sit on it until the election. Rishi Sunak certainly hasn't won an election on the position of repealing the act so the conventions do not apply.
Rishi Sunak has not won an election for anything but his own Parliamentary seat....
 

brad465

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Given that Sunak has already repeatedly peed off the Speaker it will be interesting to see if he acts....


Rishi Sunak has not won an election for anything but his own Parliamentary seat....
Hoyle has been nothing but a spineless (expletive) since taking the position, so I suspect he won't act at all besides having a virtue-signalling rant.
 

fishwomp

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Noddy

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I’m not sure the Orders for Compulsory Purchase have been made, the sales will be for land that has been bought by negotiation (which is most of it).

An absolute travesty, obviously.

The atmosphere in the office today was the most angry and scathing I have ever known. Lots of people worried about their jobs.

Very sorry to hear this. I always read your posts with interest and respect, and can only imagine what a dark day it was professionally for you and your colleagues.

Everyone has seen through this for what it is.

I hope everyone reading this thread takes note of this point.
 

Baxenden Bank

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“Monsieur - j’ai quelque trains à grande vitesse, tres nouvelle, je ne vous pas vendre, mais pour vous une prix spécial…”
Ebay.

Or Nigeria. They bought some 11 year old Talgo sets for a commuter line.
 
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