Severe weather Saturday 7th October, some ScotRail services suspended.

[nw1]

Sounds to me the railway isn’t fit for purpose if it can’t adapt to the world we live in today? Time to adjust and adapt or lift those rails and replace them with tarmac

Is this taken from the recent Tory Conference?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Shock news; sometimes it rains a bit in the autumn in Scotland!

There's a worrying precedent being set here - the idea that trains might be cancelled not because of severe weather but because of predicted severe weather.

If the prediction turns out to be inaccurate (as all too often if is), you end up with trains being cancelled unnecessarily and a further loss of faith in the rail network's ability to run its advertised services.

 

[JamieL]

Shock news; sometimes it rains a bit in the autumn in Scotland!

It doesn't normally rain like this.

 

[Hadrian]

I have the impression (from RTT) that Avanti have run a number of trains from Glasgow to Preston and back during the day today. If this is correct then criticism for cancelling all trains north of Preston is pointing at the wrong target. Splitting the Glasgow to London service at Preston may have been a sensible decision resulting in delays north of Preston not impacting on the service south of Preston.

 

[Huntergreed]

I have the impression (from RTT) that Avanti have run a number of trains from Glasgow to Preston and back during the day today. If this is correct then criticism for cancelling all trains north of Preston is pointing at the wrong target. Splitting the Glasgow to London service at Preston may have been a sensible decision resulting in delays north of Preston not impacting on the service south of Preston.

I disagree

If they have run some trains then they are blatantly lying to their customers by saying there are no services.

If they have run any services, at least advertise these and let customers know they can travel, however inadvisable (but necessary) it may be.

My plans were totally wrecked by Avanti’s announcement of no services. If they at least admitted they would run a skeleton few, I would’ve been in totally different position.

 

[GusB]

SEPA has a severe flood warning (the highest level) issued for the Aviemore area:

Flood Updates – SEPA Floodline

floodline.sepa.org.uk

A SEVERE FLOOD WARNING has been issued for Aviemore/Dalfaber.

This means that extensive flooding is expected to properties and businesses in and around Aviemore from the early hours of Sunday morning. This will include Dalfaber Road, Inverdruie, The Old Bridge Inn, Speyside Leisure Park, the sewage treatment works and the railway line at Easter Kinakyle. Many roads will be impassible in and around Aviemore.

River levels are expected to be higher than those experienced in early December 2015 and are forecast to slowly peak during Sunday. Stay away from flood water and do not take unnecessary risks. If you are affected by or concerned about flooding please contact the emergency services. Some evacuations have been advised; please follow any advice provided by the emergency services and local authorities.

Yet some people stil cannot grasp the severity of the situation.

There's a worrying precedent being set here - the idea that trains might be cancelled not because of severe weather but because of predicted severe weather.

If the prediction turns out to be inaccurate (as all too often if is), you end up with trains being cancelled unnecessarily and a further loss of faith in the rail network's ability to run it's advertised services.

The predictions have turned out to be very accurate so far. Network Rail isn't just sticking a wet finger in the air and making decisions based on that.

 

[IslandDweller]

Shock news; sometimes it rains a bit in the autumn in Scotland!

Please don't be disingenuous. It rains a lot in Scotland but over three inches in 12 hours (and still raining) is unprecedented - it is not in any way normal.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

If they had said they are going to only run 20% of services, what percentage of passengers do you think would have tried to travel?

I would hazard a guess of at least 50% of people would have tried making those services extremely busy

Not saying it was right to do that

 

[Huntergreed]

SEPA has a severe flood warning (the highest level) issued for the Aviemore area:

Yet some people still cannot grasp the severity of the situation.

Yet again, you’re making the wrong assumption.

People are not criticising the fact that services have been canned where essential.

Most of the anger is directed at Preston - Carlisle and other, unaffected (or lesser affected) parts of Scotland which do not at all justify the level of service cuts seen.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

There's a worrying precedent being set here - the idea that trains might be cancelled not because of severe weather but because of predicted severe weather.

So at what point do you stop the services running then? Is it better to strand people in towns at stations or on trains at greenfield sites with little or no access

 

[Elecman]

Presumably anything to do with the pumps is fully waterproofed and can withstand total flooding so the pumps keep going until all the water is gone.

Not always and the pumps will only run as long as there is power to them, if the DNO fails then the pumps stop.

 

[1D54]

I disagree

If they have run some trains then they are blatantly lying to their customers by saying there are no services.

If they have run any services, at least advertise these and let customers know they can travel, however inadvisable (but necessary) it may be.

My plans were totally wrecked by Avanti’s announcement of no services. If they at least admitted they would run a skeleton few, I would’ve been in totally different position.

They seem to have been running a service down to Preston from 11:36 onwards. There are no patterns to the timings and two went in the space of an hour at one point. They are still running now, many are late. Why are they doing this?

 

[Huntergreed]

If they had said they are going to only run 20% of services, what percentage of passengers do you think would have tried to travel?

I would hazard a guess of at least 50% of people would have tried making those services extremely busy

Not saying it was right to do that

Possibly, but it’s better to run a small number of very busy services than no services at all.

It’s even worse to lie to your customers (who may have otherwise been making essential journeys) to tell them you aren’t running any trains when you actually are

They seem to have been running a service down to Preston from 11:36 onwards. There are no patterns to the timings and two went in the space of an hour at one point. They are still running now, many are late. Why are they doing this?

If the line is open, why shouldn’t they!

My gripe isn’t that they are running these services, it is that they are deliberately misleading customers by stating on their website (and other official communications) that there is “no” service North of Preston when there clearly is (albeit a limited one).

 

[MadCommuter]

This ScotRail photo at Dalmarnock is pretty worrying. Water should not be seeping through a retaining wall. The works done to the station for the Commonwealth Games didn't really address the long term issues there.

 

[1D54]

The line is obviously open but because of earlier announcements as you mentioned these trains must be running nigh on empty. Money down the pan.

 

[Huntergreed]

The line is obviously open but because of earlier announcements as you mentioned these trains must be running nigh on empty. Money down the pan.

I’ve challenged them on twitter.

I don’t expect a response but it really angers me that they are deliberately misleading passengers

 

[glasgowniteowl]

They seem to have been running a service down to Preston from 11:36 onwards. There are no patterns to the timings and two went in the space of an hour at one point. They are still running now, many are late. Why are they doing this?

Probably find it's down to the available drivers diagrams, so first few trains south on a normal morning will be glasgow drivers and first few north will be preston, so they are sort of bunched together during the day so heading south its probably a pattern like, Glasgow Glasgow Glasgow Glasgow Preston Preston Preston Glasgow Glasgow Glasgow etc so that's why you will get a few within an hour or so then a gap

They are late because of the speed restrictions

 

[josh-j]

The railway call travellers customers and a customer is a person who buys goods or services from a shop or business.

They don't call the treasury a customer though despite a lot of the funding coming from there. You're arguing semantics. Even if you treat the whole thing as one big business the biggest customer would be the government, so it would still come down to them needing to spend more to get more.

 

[Macwomble]

This ScotRail photo at Dalmarnock is pretty worrying. Water should not be seeping through a retaining wall. The works done to the station for the Commonwealth Games didn't really address the long term issues there.

Gawd, I hope that little lot doesn't come down.........it'll cause absolutely carnage to services in/around Glasgow

 

[glasgowniteowl]

I’ve challenged them on twitter.

I don’t expect a response but it really angers me that they are deliberately misleading passengers

I actually agree shouldn't be doing that, at least remove the pinned tweet, it may not have been a lie at the time it was posted, but its been nearly 24 hours since plenty of time to change it if that plans had changed through the night

 

[Huntergreed]

I actually agree shouldn't be doing that, at least remove the pinned tweet, it may not have been a lie at the time it was posted, but its been nearly 24 hours since plenty of time to change it if that plans had changed through the night

Absolutely.

This is where it’s slightly annoying that we aren’t able to FOI Avanti to find out what’s going on here and to see if passengers are being deliberately misled.

I do believe there’s a growing anger towards Avanti from everyone living North of Preston who uses them semi-regularly. I know there certainly is with me!!

 

[james_the_xv]

No it isn't. By leaving the house you are introducing more risk into your life. There is a balance and shutting lines on the basis of a heavy rain forecast is pathetic. The infrastructure should be maintained to cope or we amend what is judged as too much of a risk. This kind of intensity of rain is nothing new but in the past, we just got on with it...

To the extent that everyone is forced onto the roads at such times ...

Used to be that rail was the bad weather alternative to rely on. Now the opposite.

Either of you willing to change your tune having seen the footage of the state of the network today?

If you'd tried running trains over that at best they'd have been stranded for hours in various locations, at worst who knows?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Yet again, you’re making the wrong assumption.

People are not criticising the fact that services have been canned where essential.

Most of the anger is directed at Preston - Carlisle and other, unaffected (or lesser affected) parts of Scotland which do not at all justify the level of service cuts seen.

Surely thats down to NR imposing a blanket speed restriction making it impossible for some operators to run a service with the minimal if non existent spare resources they have these days. Why did NR impose it? because of the criticism and fines levelled on them after Carmont also they don't have the resources on the ground or in control to dynamically manage the situation. Was it a proportionate response? Probably not and given the short notice cancellation today by LNER and TPE suggests the decision wasn't communicated to those operators til late last night/this morning. So it should merit a challenge (there wont be one) about why a Scotland wide blanket speed was imposed and whether it could have been better targeted and if not what needs to change to improve that next time.

 

[Huntergreed]

Ridiculously, a blanket 40mph ESR seems to have been imposed across the entirety of Scotland.

This ScotRail service from Carlisle to Dumfries has just crossed the border. It ran 75mph most of the way to Gretna, but now it’s crawling along at 40mph. Obviously, normal running would be entirely safe and appropriate here.

I totally appreciate that TOC’s cannot run in severe conditions.

Down here, there have been no severe conditions nor are any forecast. Why am I going to be late home due to a needless 40mph ESR?

 

[Unstoppable]

Ridiculously, a blanket 40mph ESR seems to have been imposed across the entirety of Scotland.

This ScotRail service from Carlisle to Dumfries has just crossed the border. It ran 75mph most of the way to Gretna, but now it’s crawling along at 40mph. Obviously, normal running would be entirely safe and appropriate here.

I totally appreciate that TOC’s cannot run in severe conditions.

Down here, there have been no severe conditions nor are any forecast. Why am I going to be late home due to a needless 40mph ESR?

You’re paying for an industry which laughs at the customer expense

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Absolutely.

This is where it’s slightly annoying that we aren’t able to FOI Avanti to find out what’s going on here and to see if passengers are being deliberately misled.

I do believe there’s a growing anger towards Avanti from everyone living North of Preston who uses them semi-regularly. I know there certainly is with me!!

Their live train status map shows cancelled services still running!! This current snapshot

 

[Huntergreed]

Their live train status map shows cancelled services still running!! This current snapshot

View attachment 144385

I’m happy for these services to run.

I’m not happy for Avanti to lie and say they are not running despite the fact they clearly are.

 

[yorksrob]

Absolutely.

This is where it’s slightly annoying that we aren’t able to FOI Avanti to find out what’s going on here and to see if passengers are being deliberately misled.

I do believe there’s a growing anger towards Avanti from everyone living North of Preston who uses them semi-regularly. I know there certainly is with me!!

Was sat at Lancaster station today.

All other train companies managed to put their services in. I have friends who changed their plans coming to Lancaster from the South when there was no justification for the lack of train services.

Avanti clearly has questions to answer.

 

[Huntergreed]

I’ve managed to capture both speedometers (front and rear cabs) which clearly show us stuck at 40





(both photos show the speedometer on the train at 40)

I’m actively challenging them on twitter but so far all I’ve been given is “safety reasons” (which seems nonsensical for down here).

 

[1D54]

Circumstances change, weather changes from the time AWC took the decision to cancel north of Preston. It all seems rather odd but today was a crazy day and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. They have come on leaps and bounds from the dark days of the last chance saloon.