jonesy3001
Established Member
This weekend coming or the end of November?
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Class 319 Northern departure
- Thread starter BPN2022
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Even worse across in Yorkshire, with Leeds-Doncaster and the Airedale/Wharfedale lines going down to 3-car 331s. That’ll be snug.
Over 3 days last month I did 6 different Chat Moss SX peak hours trains by 319, two a.m. peak, four p.m. peak.
None were "crush loaded".
Not were even standing.
Not even full. Empty seats.
I had a 4 seat bay in the 2+3 layout to myself on three runs.
Admittedly one of these trains was a contra flow Wigan into Manchester p.m. evening so don't really count i.e. 16:30 Wigan Manchester - but just to focus on the light load I WAS THE ONLY PASSENGER ON THE TRAIN FROM START TO END
Speaking as a Luton commuter of 25 years on Thameslink 319s, you can't have experienced a truly crush loaded 319 so loaded it is down on it's suspension bump stops and the doors won't close, and I don't believe the total pax on a 'crush loaded' 323 is much different to a 'crush loaded' 319.
Last edited:
Lampshade
Established Member
Don't Metro fund the fourth car on the 333s, or at least cover those routes being 4-car?
I don't think that's been the case for quite a long time now.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
No. The 333s remain but the 4-car 331s are being swapped for the 3-car 331s in the north west.
Some of the Chat Moss stoppers do leave Lime Street very busy, fitting the description 'crush loaded'. However, in my experience most empty out considerably at Huyton and are spacious by Rainhill.
The same cannot be said of the Wigan North Western stoppers, on which a four-car Class 331 would be a total waste of capacity. The Liverpool - Wigan stoppers are nowhere near as busy as the hourly Blackpool express, where six-cars are justified at times.
The same cannot be said of the Wigan North Western stoppers, on which a four-car Class 331 would be a total waste of capacity. The Liverpool - Wigan stoppers are nowhere near as busy as the hourly Blackpool express, where six-cars are justified at times.
ServerHoster
Member
Currently the Manchester - Crewe services have 5 diagrams, 3x 323s and 2x 331s. With the 331s moving round the network & needing to now cover for the 319s & more 323s coming from WMR, does this mean that Manchester - Crewe services may move to being fully 323? If so then that would be a great shame because I prefer the 331s.
sprinterguy
Established Member
He hasn't died. The cancer treatment he reportedly underwent earlier this year was successful.
chazi898
Member
I've been on a crush-loaded 323, Patricroft to Newton-Le-Willows, basically got on, couldn't move..
InkyScrolls
Member
Wrong. The 333s are remaining for Bradford and Doncaster services, with Skipton/Ilkley to Leeds seeing a capacity improvement to 331x2s (e.g. six carriages).
Not immediately though. There will be a period this year when Doncaster services will be 3 car - you can't replace 12 /1s with 12 /0s and have them all working as pairs.
InkyScrolls
Member
Incorrect again. Doncaster is, to my knowledge, to start with 333s from December.
Doncaster crews don’t sign 333’s yet. From December ‘23 timetable change Leeds to Doncaster will be 3 car 331’s.
That wasn't the plan last I heard.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Bantamzen
Established Member
Given that platform extensions on many Aire & Wharfe lines have not even started 2x 3-car 331s won't happen until at least Dec 24 we are told.
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
What would make ASDO not work at those stations?
Bantamzen
Established Member
I've no idea, I'm just going on what we've been told on other threads. The busiest services are to be diagrammed to remain 4 car, but even so there are going to be times when a 3 car shows up for them.
ASDO would work but it wouldn't be particularly practical for use on a day-to-day basis. A lot of stations have platforms that hold a max of 4 cars so the rear unit would only have at most 2 of the 6 doors platformed. As you can imagine, a lot of passengers would board the rear coaches at Leeds/Skipton/Bradford making it a nightmare for timekeeping having to move them forward to exit the train.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
The reason for going to 6-car would be capacity, and if one or two carriages aren’t platformed at most stations then regular passengers wouldn’t use them. And you’d have extended dwell times whilst people walked forwards. As you can imagine, at Leeds and Bradford people would most likely board the rear two carriages as they’re closest to the barriers.
ASDO is great for a station where a platform really can’t be extended, but wouldn’t really work as an alternative to lengthening platforms.
In any case, there aren’t enough 331s to run 6-car in Airedale and Wharfedale. This might change when the 323s move to Manchester, which might allow some 331s to move back to Leeds, but we’ll see.
jonesy3001
Established Member
When everything has settled with the 331 swaps and the 323s have cascaded from WMT, which routes will they be on.
childwallblues
Established Member
I would imagine the 323s will be on South Manchester services, Chat Moss and Wigan-Stalybridge.
331s will be on Manchester Airport to Blackpool North and Liverpool to Wigan/Blackpool North.
jonnyfan
Member
I'd expect we will see 4 car Class 331s on the Chat Moss. It's possible double Class 323s will run on the Blackpool N to Manchester Airport line, as all the platforms on that route will be able to fully accommodate 6 carriage trains in the next couple of months.
Lampshade
Established Member
Urgh, not 3+2 seating on Manchester to Blackpool 
I mean it was like that for years so it won't be too much of a surprise for the passengers.Urgh, not 3+2 seating on Manchester to Blackpool
323s to Blackpool though would probably take some work. Blackpool, Blackburn? Victoria and Wigan would all need to be trained eventually... Liverpool, Buxton and Piccadilly of course already sign them
Last edited:
jonesy3001
Established Member
Basically the 323s and 331s will share the same routes apart from the hadfield line?
Any idea which 323 it is that's moving on Saturday.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Will the wmt 323s get refreshed after transfer or will some go through wolverton or Crewe while being transferred?
Any idea which 323 it is that's moving on Saturday.
Realtime Trains | 5Q36 1040 Soho L.M.D. to Allerton Depot | 28/10/2023
Real-time train running information for 5Q36 1040 departure from Soho L.M.D. to Allerton Depot on 28/10/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Will the wmt 323s get refreshed after transfer or will some go through wolverton or Crewe while being transferred?
Last edited:
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
319s didn't work it for very long. Before that it would mostly have been, over the years, 156s, 175s and 185s, none of which are 3+2.
You did get 150s and Pacers, but not intentionally, more because of Northern's very tight use of their fleet resulting in the "random unit generator". Never saw a 158 or any 153s ever, though.
Single 323s will be awful for the crowds, though. Perhaps consideration should be given to removing the third seat, as with narrow 720-style 3+2 and relatively narrow doorways they're useless for standees. At least they might then manage not to leave people behind.
- Status