Class 319 Northern departure

[BPN2022]

So with these expected to leave the fleet by 30 November..

How on earth are Northern going to run the remainder of the TT without them? Will they have all been cascaded about before hand with the 331s or will we see STP short formations for the first week of December? Seems odd these are booked to leave the fleet midweek.

When are the first 319s booked to leave Allerton for scrap?

Such a shame, really is.

 

[Trainguy34]

This thread timing was insanely weird, watching a video on 319s (Execept on the WCML this time). Hoping to be able to ride one before they go.

 

[Geeves]

So with these expected to leave the fleet by 30 November..

How on earth are Northern going to run the remainder of the TT without them? Will they have all been cascaded about before hand with the 331s or will we see STP short formations for the first week of December? Seems odd these are booked to leave the fleet midweek.

When are the first 319s booked to leave Allerton for scrap?

Such a shame, really is.

This is my understanding although happy to be corrected of course!

12 3 car 331s go east and 12 4 car 331s come west

4 car 331s go onto the Blackpool N - Airport work with 6 cars being reduced to 4. The freed up 3 cars then go onto to fill all the rest of the 319s former works with a reduction in capacity till alll the 323s come from Birmingham.

Also it looks potentially like the Victoria (via Golborne) - Wigan NW peak time trains will switch to DMU to help ease the shortage, just going off this week where its been a DMU for the first time.

 

[thegilb]

Also it looks potentially like the Victoria (via Golborne) - Wigan NW peak time trains will switch to DMU to help ease the shortage, just going off this week where its been a DMU for the first time.

Wasnt surprised when a 156 turned up yesterday afternoon

 

[Lampshade]

4 car 331s go onto the Blackpool N - Airport work with 6 cars being reduced to 4.

Absolutely ridiculous decision if that’s genuinely the plan, it’s a 6 car route all day long.

Waste of money extending the platforms at Adlington and Blackrod if so.

 

[BPN2022]

Absolutely ridiculous decision if that’s genuinely the plan, it’s a 6 car route all day long.

Waste of money extending the platforms at Adlington and Blackrod if so.

The railway in 2023.

 

[childwallblues]

I have travelled extensively on the 319s since they arrived in 2015. They ride much better than the 331s and are impressive on the WCML between Wigan North Western an Euxton Junction. It is a great pity that Northern never reseated them. I am not a fan of the 323 replacements and personally I will miss the 319s.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I have travelled extensively on the 319s since they arrived in 2015. They ride much better than the 331s and are impressive on the WCML between Wigan North Western an Euxton Junction.

The 331s would probably be even better on that section since they'd get to speed much quicker than the 319s.
I'm very happy with the 331s.

 

[northwichcat]

Wasnt surprised when a 156 turned up yesterday afternoon

If you get any of the ex-Anglia ones - good luck! When we get them on the Mid-Cheshire if we're unlucky they break down and if we're lucky they are just faulty but plod on.

The railway in 2023.

Aren't Northern getting 323s from Birmingham in a few months?

So in 2017 we couldn't have the agreed enhancements because GWR weren't ready to cascade off-lease trains to us, but in 2023 we see cutbacks because trains go off-lease before their replacements join?

I have travelled extensively on the 319s since they arrived in 2015. They ride much better than the 331s and are impressive on the WCML between Wigan North Western an Euxton Junction. It is a great pity that Northern never reseated them. I am not a fan of the 323 replacements and personally I will miss the 319s.

The 323s could also do with being reseated. With more comfortable seats and a better designed CIS they wouldn't be bad for 30 year old trains.

 

[deltic08]

Dxenholme-Windermere electrification unlikely then! £15M in 2017 is at least £30M now and still diesels under wires. Where are the bimodes Grayling promised?
He should be spinning in his grave for deceiving us.

 

[AMD]

Aren't Northern getting 323s from Birmingham in a few months?

Yes, 3 are due to come north for the December TT change, with more to follow next year sometime..... Bear in mind that these units should have come north to replace the 319s a long time ago.

The 323s could also do with being reseated. With more comfortable seats and a better designed CIS they wouldn't be bad for 30 year old trains.

New seat covers and TrainFX is the standard spec (and budget)

 

[jonesy3001]

That'll be good when the wires at stalybridge finally go live and they're still using diesels instead of EMUs.
Any idea which of the 12 3 car 331s are moving east or will it be the ones with the highest mileage.

 

[darylyates17]

This is my understanding although happy to be corrected of course!

12 3 car 331s go east and 12 4 car 331s come west

4 car 331s go onto the Blackpool N - Airport work with 6 cars being reduced to 4. The freed up 3 cars then go onto to fill all the rest of the 319s former works with a reduction in capacity till alll the 323s come from Birmingham.

Also it looks potentially like the Victoria (via Golborne) - Wigan NW peak time trains will switch to DMU to help ease the shortage, just going off this week where its been a DMU for the first time.

Are LIV-WGN/BPN likely to be 3 cars or 6 like they used to be? Chat Moss needs at least 4 cars maybe even 6 if no extra services are added but of course 323s dont have ASDO for the short platforms.

 

[prod_pep]

There is still some slack in the existing 323 fleet, with only 11 diagrams for 17 units last time I checked. The Northern 323 fleet have had 14-15 weekday diagrams for most of their lives.

As for the 319s, good riddance. Any capacity reductions incurred due to this possibly somewhat premature withdrawal are a great shame, however.

 

[skyhigh]

Misread, sorry.

 

[jonesy3001]

Misread, slrrt

No problem

 

[scrapy]

This is my understanding although happy to be corrected of course!

12 3 car 331s go east and 12 4 car 331s come west

4 car 331s go onto the Blackpool N - Airport work with 6 cars being reduced to 4. The freed up 3 cars then go onto to fill all the rest of the 319s former works with a reduction in capacity till alll the 323s come from Birmingham.

Also it looks potentially like the Victoria (via Golborne) - Wigan NW peak time trains will switch to DMU to help ease the shortage, just going off this week where its been a DMU for the first time.

Not quite so clear cut. There will be 4 car diagrams on Chat Moss services and several Blackpool Nth to Manchester Airport services will be 6 car. Liverpool to Wigan/Blackpool will mainly be 3 car 331s.

It is temporary until the 323s arrive from WMT and crews are trained. They will initially go onto Liverpool-Wigan stoppers. Definitely won't be ideal but will be quietest time of year.

 

[Geeves]

Thanks Scapy, sounds the best that can be done given the circumstances

 

[jonesy3001]

Any idea when the 331 swaps will be happening?
Will the 319s go for scrap or will they be converted to 769s and go back to northern

 

[JonathanH]

will they be converted to 769s and go back to northern

Seems impossible. The production line for converting 319s to 769s closed down over three years ago.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Seems impossible. The production line for converting 319s to 769s closed down over three years ago.

And with little upset to most, I'm sure. They converted units have on the whole proven themselves to be an unreliable waste of money and resources.

 

[jonesy3001]

Ah well roll on the new bi-modes then if it eventually happens.

 

[jagardner1984]

Also it looks potentially like the Victoria (via Golborne) - Wigan NW peak time trains will switch to DMU to help ease the shortage, just going off this week where its been a DMU for the first time.

Nice little press story as to how fleet management results in diesel trains being INTRODUCED on a previously electric route ‍

 

[gazthomas]

Dxenholme-Windermere electrification unlikely then! £15M in 2017 is at least £30M now and still diesels under wires. Where are the bimodes Grayling promised?
He should be spinning in his grave for deceiving us.

Politicians don't suffer from guilt

 

[skyhigh]

Any idea when the 331 swaps will be happening?
Will the 319s go for scrap or will they be converted to 769s and go back to northern

They are 100% going for scrap. I believe direct runs are planned in for when they leave.

 

[childwallblues]

Not quite so clear cut. There will be 4 car diagrams on Chat Moss services and several Blackpool Nth to Manchester Airport services will be 6 car. Liverpool to Wigan/Blackpool will mainly be 3 car 331s.

It is temporary until the 323s arrive from WMT and crews are trained. They will initially go onto Liverpool-Wigan stoppers. Definitely won't be ideal but will be quietest time of year.

I have heard that LIV-BPN services will be 4 car.

 

[mcnw35282]

Sounds about fight with Northern not being able to able to organise a pish up in a brewery at the moment. The 4 car 331s will be on the twice hourly Wigan to Liverpool services while the chat moss route is stuck with crush loaded 323s. We're getting a couple of extra peak trains tho. Whoopee.

 

[js1000]

Won't be sorry to see these hand-me-downs finally go. The seat heights were the most annoying bit.

Don't mind the 323s. The 331 ride quality isn't great but the interior/fit-out (lower window heights, tables, space around doors etc) is a monumental improvement on the cramped 1990s BR stock.

 

[Vanmanyo]

Seems impossible. The production line for converting 319s to 769s closed down over three years ago.

I did work experience recently at Porterbrook (who own 319s/769s) and they still have hope for the 769s, but I would highly doubt they need any more 319s now (they are focused on getting the current 769s as reliable as possible then find new operators for the GWR and tfw ones.. somehow)

 

[diligentdave]

Won't be long now. 319375 already marked for disposal for the end of the month. One of the first WMT 323's will be heading North on the 28th.