Remaining Effects of Covid

[bahnause]

In late 2023, why is Covid still being treated differently to any other viral illness, including flu?

Because it is nothing like a flu. Long term effects are more common and/or more severe. The development of complications, including long-term damage to the lungs, heart, kidneys, brain and other organs and a variety of long-lasting symptoms, is possible after a case of COVID-19.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Because it is nothing like a flu. Long term effects are more common and/or more severe. The development of complications, including long-term damage to the lungs, heart, kidneys, brain and other organs and a variety of long-lasting symptoms, is possible after a case of COVID-19.

I have often wondered if the Chinese going for such strong lockdowns was because they know more about the long term effects of Covid than the rest of us do.

If Covid came from that Lab then how long ago did they first discover Covid ?.

 

[yorkie]

The remaining face mask effect in hospitals might have started biting back: 1 hospital has asked people to wear them (unless exempt obviously).

NHS hospital asks visitors to wear masks again after 'significant' rise in Covid cases — Evening Standard

Staff and visitors urged not to enter healthcare settings if they have virus symptoms

apple.news

People need to push back against this; it's politically motivated by authoritarians and these people use the NHS as a way to attempt to get their way. There are some people who have spent an awful lot of the past 3 1/2 years trying to introduce a 'new normal' and they are still not prepared to let go.

It's a logical request with minimal adverse impact given the dire state hospitals are in with delays through industrial action at the moment.

Asking people to minimise visits? Yes maybe so. But if you mean wear masks, no it's not at all logical.

Because it is nothing like a flu.

Coronaviruses are less serious than influenza and they 'mutate' at a slower rate; it is - over time - easier for us to develop good immunity against Coronaviruses. Influenza viruses are more serious than coronaviruses.

A novel coronavirus will temporarily give us more serious outcomes than influenza until we have generated a good level of immunity to it, but does not change these basic facts.

Long term effects are more common and/or more severe. The development of complications, including long-term damage to the lungs, heart, kidneys, brain and other organs and a variety of long-lasting symptoms, is possible after a case of COVID-19.

Actually last winter 'flu was more deadly than Sars-CoV-2, which is rapidly becoming the 5th endemic HCoV.

I have often wondered if the Chinese going for such strong lockdowns was because they know more about the long term effects of Covid than the rest of us do.

How do you explain their sudden U-turn from hard lockdown to letting it become endemic?

How would they have known about "long term" effects in early 2020?

Actual experts realised quite early on that the virus could not be contained and was destined to become the 5th endemic Coronavirus and that there was no way to prevent this happening.

Hard lockdowns were implemented because China is an authoritarian state and they erroneously thought the virus could be eliminated; it became apparent well over 3 years ago that there was no way it was going to be eliminated and yet they continued with this fallacy for quite some time and only gave up when they had literally no other choice, then made a sudden U-turn.

Authoritarians in other countries capitalised on the Chinese approach and pushed an agenda that their solution was superior; this was completely made up and almost anyone can now see how ridiculous it was.

 

[westv]

You are more likely to pick up something nasty when visiting hospital rather than bring it in!!

 

[bahnause]

I have often wondered if the Chinese going for such strong lockdowns was because they know more about the long term effects of Covid than the rest of us do.

If Covid came from that Lab then how long ago did they first discover Covid ?.

I do not think they knew more or less then anybody else. There is work to do, vaccinations are fine but there is a lot to do in terms of treatment of the illness.

 

[Peter Sarf]

....................................


How do you explain their sudden U-turn from hard lockdown to letting it become endemic?

How would they have known about "long term" effects in early 2020?

Actual experts realised quite early on that the virus could not be contained and was destined to become the 5th endemic Coronavirus and that there was no way to prevent this happening.

Hard lockdowns were implemented because China is an authoritarian state and they erroneously thought the virus could be eliminated; it became apparent well over 3 years ago that there was no way it was going to be eliminated and yet they continued with this fallacy for quite some time and only gave up when they had literally no other choice, then made a sudden U-turn.

Authoritarians in other countries capitalised on the Chinese approach and pushed an agenda that their solution was superior; this was completely made up and almost anyone can now see how ridiculous it was.

Oh I was just postulating. Perhaps the Chinese encountered and contained Covid-19 say 20 years ago. Plenty of time to study long term effects. I do get the impression that there are some long term effects of Covid-19 that we are beginning to learn about.

Therefore I wondered if the Chnese were more reluctant to let it become endemic. I agree there was no choice once Covid-19 was ravaging Wuhan.

From my own point of view Covid-19 was very serious. I was by far the illest I have ever been - I usually shrugg off viruses as just a bit of a cold. My GF now has long Covid and is still not right since January 2020. She lost three people in the UK she knew from the same country of origin as her and that's a small group.

I do not think they knew more or less then anybody else. There is work to do, vaccinations are fine but there is a lot to do in terms of treatment of the illness.

Its more likely true the Chinese knew about the same as us. And it is true there is more work to do. I still get the impression the NHS don't know exactly what is going on with some of the long term symptoms she has - I don't expect them to.

 

[bahnause]

Its more likely true the Chinese knew about the same as us. And it is true there is more work to do. I still get the impression the NHS don't know exactly what is going on with some of the long term symptoms she has - I don't expect them to.

It is more a topic for research. The NHS will habe to implement the results.

 

[nw1]

I think (though it's not quite clear) that they are referring to refraining from visiting others who are in hospital rather than attending yourself for treatment.

Ah ok, fair enough.

 

[route101]

My local Aldi has just taken down the screens at the tills.

 

[Peter Sarf]

My local Aldi has just taken down the screens at the tills.

Indeed. I had noticed last month that my local Wickes had taken their screens away. Could have been a few months before that I was last in so sometime this summer. Not noticed anywhere else I frequent removing screens.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Medway maritime is another NHS trust asking many attendees of hospital in various capacities to return to face coverings.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

My local Aldi has just taken down the screens at the tills.

Tesco removed all theirs about three or four months ago.

 

[Russel]

My local Aldi has just taken down the screens at the tills.

Mine has too.

I'm surprised they weren't kept in place as more of a general protection for the shop staff, it can't be nice having hundreds of people coughing, sneezing and breathing on you all day.

 

[Bantamzen]

Because it is nothing like a flu. Long term effects are more common and/or more severe. The development of complications, including long-term damage to the lungs, heart, kidneys, brain and other organs and a variety of long-lasting symptoms, is possible after a case of COVID-19.

The development of long term symptoms is well documented for many illnesses, especially flu. My own sister died at the age of 30 from complications following a heavy bout of flu. Prior to that she was very fit and healthy with no other known health conditions. This happens because after the immune system has been put under serious strain, the body can be left very weakened and even damaged as a result of the immune systems effects.

There are plenty of resources on Post Viral Fatigue out there, it is something that has been observed and researched for decades. Covid is now another potential illness in a spectrum of illnesses that can cause additional problems, not something way worse as portrayed by some. The best any of us can do is look after our immune systems as best as we can. That will for most people be by far the best strategy.

 

[bahnause]

There are plenty of resources on Post Viral Fatigue out there, it is something that has been observed and researched for decades.

No other respiratory disease has similarly high chances of a long-term effect. Moreover, the amount of possible effects is greater.

Shortness of breath and chest pain are the only lung-related conditions significantly elevated in comparisons of COVID-19 versus other respiratory deseases and COVID-19 versus a control group. Pulmonary embolism (blood clots in the lungs), low oxygen levels, other respiratory failure, the need for oxygen, and pneumonia were significantly more common in SARS-CoV-2 than other respiratory deseases patients but not compared with control groups.

Since many preventing measures against covid are also effective against influenza, they make even more sense.

 

[yorkie]

No other respiratory disease has similarly high chances of a long-term effect. Moreover, the amount of possible effects is greater.

Can you name any other novel respiratory disease which we have been able to study?

Do you have any evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is intrinsically and/or inherently more pathogenic than similar coronaviruses, such as HCov OC43, rather than the more severe effects being related to our lack of prior immunity?

Shortness of breath and chest pain are the only lung-related conditions significantly elevated in comparisons of COVID-19 versus other respiratory deseases and COVID-19 versus a control group. Pulmonary embolism (blood clots in the lungs), low oxygen levels, other respiratory failure, the need for oxygen, and pneumonia were significantly more common in SARS-CoV-2 than other respiratory deseases patients but not compared with control groups.

Are similar studies available for other similar viruses, when they first jumped from animals to humans?

(The answer to all of these is, of course, 'No'; do you concede that?)

 

[Crossover]

My local Aldi has just taken down the screens at the tills.

One of our local Aldis had a metal "cage" outside - used to allow shoppers queuing outside to get into the store to stay dry and somewhat shelter from the prevailing conditions. It was pretty narrow (not full pavement width) and hasn't been used in anger for some time. When the store was recently facelifted, this has gone (I presume the screens have too, but I didn't notice)

I do see plenty of places with remenants of stickers on the floor - one of the local pharmacies is particularly bad for it - the place looks like a chess board!

 

[Bantamzen]

The canteen at my office still has screens at the tills, although if you are getting hot breakfast food early in the morning when its quiet they serve you the food at one counter then walk with you across to the till....

 

[island]

Mine has too.

I'm surprised they weren't kept in place as more of a general protection for the shop staff, it can't be nice having hundreds of people coughing, sneezing and breathing on you all day.

I agree; overall this is one of the least objectionable things to retain from COVID times.

 

[Citybreak1]

Does anybody find people go out less? Some people my wife has not seen for a year. I speak to taxis and they say they have never been more quiet. I wonder if there’s a whole generation who stay in more and watch Netflix due to Covid and cost of living?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Does anybody find people go out less? Some people my wife has not seen for a year. I speak to taxis and they say they have never been more quiet. I wonder if there’s a whole generation who stay in more and watch Netflix due to Covid and cost of living?

Well my regular Saturday visit to meet my friends at the local Wetherspoons died with lockdown. We meet up maybe once every four months. Now made harder by the closure of my nearest and next nearest ones. Another nice pub we used last time is slated for closure. I think people are going out a lot less.

I also think Furlough has made people forget about work.

Working from home has probably wiped out the Friday night after work de-brief at the pubs near offices. Firstly because it seems a lot of people work from home Friday and Monday but secondly a desire to choose a less busy train/bus so offices are not emptying out all at the same time.

I wonder if the amount of posting (or just reading) on forums has gone up.

 

[nw1]

Well my regular Saturday visit to meet my friends at the local Wetherspoons died with lockdown. We meet up maybe once every four months. Now made harder by the closure of my nearest and next nearest ones. Another nice pub we used last time is slated for closure. I think people are going out a lot less.

I also think Furlough has made people forget about work.

Working from home has probably wiped out the Friday night after work de-brief at the pubs near offices. Firstly because it seems a lot of people work from home Friday and Monday but secondly a desire to choose a less busy train/bus so offices are not emptying out all at the same time.

Would people care about this anymore? From what I can see people have not been frightened of being on busy trains and buses due to Covid for a long time.

And I do wonder whether the idea that people are socialising less is actually the case. Certainly the pubs (this is in a city location) seem pretty full.

 

[adc82140]

The reduction in socialising is mostly to do with the cost of living increase. Who can really afford to go out as much these days. I certainly can't.

 

[nw1]

The reduction in socialising is mostly to do with the cost of living increase. Who can really afford to go out as much these days. I certainly can't.

It makes you wonder whether capitalism is working as it should do when all the money seems to be going to the energy sector, and other businesses are struggling (though as I said above, IMX, shops and pubs are still well patronised, indeed today, on a fairly miserable and rainy Saturday afternoon in the off season, the city centre was pretty busy).

 

[Richard Scott]

Went to my local pub on a Thursday recently and it was absolutely packed. No special occasions so doesn't seem to be everywhere where fewer people are gping out. Some people still have a reasonable amount of disposable income (not saying everyone). Local coffee establishments also busy.

 

[najaB]

Some people still have a reasonable amount of disposable income (not saying everyone). Local coffee establishments also busy.

By the same token, they may well have given up other things that are less of a priority to them. Giving up a summer holiday leave quite a bit spare to go to the pub instead.

 

[Jimini]

I also think Furlough has made people forget about work.

Do what?

 

[zero]

Would people care about this anymore? From what I can see people have not been frightened of being on busy trains and buses due to Covid for a long time.

I don't think most people are *frightenend* but extremely busy trains and buses are still unpleasant

 

[Richard Scott]

By the same token, they may well have given up other things that are less of a priority to them. Giving up a summer holiday leave quite a bit spare to go to the pub instead.

May be so, benefits local economy whatever it is.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Would people care about this anymore? From what I can see people have not been frightened of being on busy trains and buses due to Covid for a long time.

And I do wonder whether the idea that people are socialising less is actually the case. Certainly the pubs (this is in a city location) seem pretty full.

I know of people who commute in the off peak as its more pleasant and cheaper. Home working has meant people working flexible hours. I think some of the desire to avoid crowded places is because people have woken up to the fact they can catch more than just Covid when stuck in a confined place. Also people have got used to not bothering with the time, ordeal and expense of commuting.

Well I have noticed pubs are quieter where I go and that is even after some round here have closed. I reckon it will pick up to the point where some pubs can justify re-opening !.