TfGM Bus franchising

[Leyland Bus]

It's been announced yesterday that Go NorthWest have won 18 school bus routes to start operating from March 2024. The actual routes haven't been announced yet but they'll require 21 buses including spares.

See attachment detailing the above.

 

[MasterSpenny]

First Manchester has been awarded 6 new home to school contracts. There are an additional 3 new school contracts for Go North West

TfGM awards franchising second tranche home-to-school contracts - routeone

First Manchester and Go North West have gained home-to-school service contracts from the second tranche of franchising in Greater Manchester.

www.route-one.net

TfGM awards franchising second tranche home-to-school contracts​

First Manchester and Go North West have been awarded the home-to-school service contracts that form part of the second tranche of bus franchising in Greater Manchester. They involve routes in Bury, Manchester, Oldham, and Rochdale.

Six contracts go to First and three to Go North West. Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) is yet to confirm how many vehicles will be needed, although it says that there will be no change from current requirements. An assessment of franchising in 2019 stated that the total PVR of all contracted home-to-school services in the conurbation is around 300.

11 schools are in scope of the second tranche awards, which will begin on 25 March 2024 as part of the rollout of that phase of reregulation.

TfGM Bus Franchising Director Anne Marie Purcell says that “there continues to be a high level of interest in the Bee Network contracts, and we saw a strong response from operators to run school bus services.” First Manchester and Go North West each made “extremely strong submissions,” she adds.

Under the two tranches of franchising for which winning bidders have either commenced work or been announced, only five operators are represented: First Manchester, Go North West, Rotala, Stagecoach Manchester, and Vision Bus.

Vision is the sole SME represented in existing awards across both tranches. The Blackrod firm gained six home-to-school franchise contracts from the first round of reregulation.

According to a paper published by TfGM in September 2019, in March of that year there were 41 SME operators active in the Greater Manchester commercial and supported bus market, accounting for around 7% of all mileage.

Earlier this year one former SME bus operator in the conurbation claimed that no businesses of that size featuring in the award of local service contracts in the first round of franchising had led to uncertainty around the future among those undertakings and some drivers to move elsewhere, amplifying those problems.

First Bus Managing Director of Manchester, Midlands and South Yorkshire Zoe Hands says that the business is “delighted to be awarded these franchise contracts for school services in Greater Manchester.” First was earlier awarded two small local service contracts in Rochdale as part of the same phase of rollout.

Go North West Managing Director Nigel Featham adds that the operator – which already runs both large local service contracts in the first phase of franchising – “looks forward to working closely with TfGM to deliver ‘best of class’ school bus transport.”

 

[M60lad]

Not to sure where to ask this but I wonder what we can expect the services to be like over the Christmas Period now franchising has started?

 

[Tim33160]

Not to sure where to ask this but I wonder what we can expect the services to be like over the Christmas Period now franchising has started?

Don't think there will be any "big change" with services similar to last Christmas / New Year

Early finish around 1900h on Christmas and NY Eve
No buses on Christmas Day / NYDay

Last year, on Boxing Day, there was limited commercial buses on some mainly Manchester City Centre services by Go North West, Stagecoach and First = mainly for shopping hours - with limited Arriva 245 / 247 to Trafford Centre

NY Day - limited Stagecoach services on some main roads into Manchester

As the Bee Network covers Wigan, Bolton, North Salford, I don't think there were any commercial services in what is now Tranche 1.

I am hearing that the commercial routes on Boxing Day may not run this year as the cost of overtime for drivers is unsustainable when there is limited income on £2 single fares??

But time will tell whether the Bee Network brings any extra journeys / basic network??

 

[WatcherZero]

Consultation on Salford Crescent to Mediacity bus route:

https://shaping.salford.gov.uk/en-GB/folders/bbr-scmc?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Orlo

First phase looks to be establishing baseline user information with a survey gathering demographic passenger data and user experience alongside an interactive map where you can point out concern areas.

 

[Tim33160]

Consultation on Salford Crescent to Mediacity bus route:

https://shaping.salford.gov.uk/en-GB/folders/bbr-scmc?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=Orlo

First phase looks to be establishing baseline user information with a survey gathering demographic passenger data and user experience alongside an interactive map where you can point out concern areas.

Shades of Quayslink service 9 back in 2010-2 - replaced commercially by current Stagecoach 50 !

Progress report on Salford Crescent to MediaCityUK Bus Service (Salford QuaysLink)
To provide Members with a progress report on the first 20 weeks operation of the Salford QuaysLink bus service between Salford Crescent Rail Station, Salford Shopping City and MediaCityUK.
http://services.salford.gov.uk/solar_documents/QUAYSLINK_PART_A.PDF

Timetable leaflet on launch:
QuaysLink service 9 2011

GM 9 010610 Salford Quays.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes I think they are looking at bus priority measures, cycle lanes or other changes they can do to build passenger demand on the corridor ahead of a tram line. For example the Quayslink service had the buses pulling into the station road rather than you having to catch them on the A6.

 

[Rod Harrison]

Just curious, are companies allowed to put their own corporate logos on repainted Bee Network buses like they are in London? I only ask as have seen them on any photos and only seen them at a distance. Thanks

 

[chopperman21]

Just curious, are companies allowed to put their own corporate logos on repainted Bee Network buses like they are in London? I only ask as have seen them on any photos and only seen them at a distance. Thanks

The Scanias and ex London Geminis have a small logo on the front and near side. pic1 https://flic.kr/p/2p8JQLv

 

[Leyland Bus]

Just curious, are companies allowed to put their own corporate logos on repainted Bee Network buses like they are in London? I only ask as have seen them on any photos and only seen them at a distance. Thanks

Both actually although it's a contentious issue. According to our livery manual from TfGM, yellow buses should only carry operator logos if they are operating ahead of the relevant franchise commencing, after which they should be removed. The operators aren't overly happy and are currently trying to see if this can be amended...

 

[WibbleWobble]

Both actually although it's a contentious issue. According to our livery manual from TfGM, yellow buses should only carry operator logos if they are operating ahead of the relevant franchise commencing, after which they should be removed. The operators aren't overly happy and are currently trying to see if this can be amended...

It's like TfGM are trying to remove any reference to the private sector being involved in operating Bee Network, as private = evil to them, something even Transport for London don't do. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to persuade the government to allow them to run the buses themselves!

 

[Deerfold]

It's like TfGM are trying to remove any reference to the private sector being involved in operating Bee Network, as private = evil to them, something even Transport for London don't do. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to persuade the government to allow them to run the buses themselves!

That's quite a jump. Perhaps they just want a uniform image. It reminds me of TfL changing contracts to require Red, then almost all-over red, where previously some operators had very different liveries.

 

[GusB]

It's like TfGM are trying to remove any reference to the private sector being involved in operating Bee Network, as private = evil to them, something even Transport for London don't do. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to persuade the government to allow them to run the buses themselves!

It's no different to any other franchising situation. If you go to McDonald's for a burger, or order a pizza from Domino's, you don't see the branding of the franchisee; the only brand visible is that of the umbrella organisation.

Does it really matter? The passenger is a Bee Network passenger and they're unlikely to care which bus company operates the service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This is what you end up with once the local politicians become involved rather than the bus operators. No one would expect the bus operators to run the councils.

 

[WibbleWobble]

It's no different to any other franchising situation. If you go to McDonald's for a burger, or order a pizza from Domino's, you don't see the branding of the franchisee; the only brand visible is that of the umbrella organisation.

Does it really matter? The passenger is a Bee Network passenger and they're unlikely to care which bus company operates the service.

Not strictly true (but we risk getting too far off topic) - just look at a motorway service station or a petrol station, whilst Spar stores have a big green plaque proclaiming who the franchisee is right by the front door! A lot of other businesses relegate it to inside the store.

As for Bee Network, there would be instances where I'd want to know who the operator is in order to contact them direct. If I had forgotten something vital (e.g. medical supplies), I'd want to ring them rather than contact TfGM and go around the houses just to end up in the same place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As for Bee Network, there would be instances where I'd want to know who the operator is in order to contact them direct. If I had forgotten something vital (e.g. medical supplies), I'd want to ring them rather than contact TfGM and go around the houses just to end up in the same place.

As with London, you would contact TfGM who would, if appropriate, give you the depot's number. The system is designed for the public, not enthusiasts, and the public won't know which depot to call just because it says Stagecoach or First.

(As regards Spar and Budgens these have a deliberate policy of showing the operator's name to promote a local feel, which is seen as a benefit in food-shopping terms, but isn't in the same way for burgers and pizza. nor for that matter for buses where the model they want to promote is that they're the city's buses!)

 

[Deerfold]

This is what you end up with once the local politicians become involved rather than the bus operators.

And what do you end up with? Is it something bad?

No one would expect the bus operators to run the councils.

No-one expects refuse collectors to run the council, but we expect the council to arrange for there to be refuse collections. Some areas they have the operator name emblazoned on the vehicle, in others they don't.

 

[WibbleWobble]

As with London, you would contact TfGM who would, if appropriate, give you the depot's number. The system is designed for the public, not enthusiasts, and the public won't know which depot to call just because it says Stagecoach or First.

I'm writing this as a member of the public, not as an enthusiast - I only use bus services in this manner. Lost property involves filling out an online form, and previous experience of contacting TfGM online doesn't yield an overly quick response.

Anyway, we've gone on long enough with this, so I'm leaving it here.

 

[Goldfish62]

This is what you end up with once the local politicians become involved rather than the bus operators. No one would expect the bus operators to run the councils.

Do you honestly think that politicians made this decision? Of course they didn't. It's a branding decision by TfGM.

National Express doesn't allow operator names on its coaches. NX is not run by politicians.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do you honestly think that politicians made this decision? Of course they didn't. It's a branding decision by TfGM.

National Express doesn't allow operator names on its coaches. NX is not run by politicians.

In this particular region, the seemingly fountain head of transport matters is indeed a politician... Andy Burnham, the Labour Mayor of Greater Manchester.

It was only when he appeared on the local transport stage that the Bee Network with its yellow livery was launched. TfGM and its predecessor GMPTE never even mentioned such a thing as the Bee Network in all the years prior to that.

 

[Goldfish62]

In this particular region, the seemingly fountain head of transport matters is indeed a politician... Andy Burnham, the Labour Mayor of Greater Manchester.

It was only when he appeared on the local transport stage that the Bee Network with its yellow livery was launched. TfGM and its predecessor GMPTE never even mentioned such a thing as the Bee Network in all the years prior to that.

Did he also pick the Metrolink livery while he was still an MP, given that it's the same shade of yellow?

If you believe what you read on social media Burnham is a bus network planner, a controller, a bus engineer, a marketer, a procurement expert, a traffic engineer. He is truly multi-talented to a unique degree.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Did he also pick the Metrolink livery while he was still an MP, given that it's the same shade of yellow?

If you believe what you read on social media Burnham is a bus network planner, a controller, a bus engineer, a marketer, a procurement expert, a traffic engineer. He is truly multi-talented to a unique degree.

When he was an MP, it was only for a certain constituency and in that role, he did not have the same connections transport-wise as he currently enjoys in his current mayoral role, whereas now his remit is the whole area of Greater Manchester and I am sure you are well aware of his connection in obtaining vast amounts of project transport finance from central Government coffers for the Greater Manchester area.

 

[Goldfish62]

When he was an MP, it was only for a certain constituency and in that role, he did not have the same connections transport-wise as he currently enjoys in his current mayoral role, whereas now his remit is the whole area of Greater Manchester and I am sure you are well aware of his connection in obtaining vast amounts of project transport finance from central Government coffers for the Greater Manchester area.

Just because he is Mayor of Greater Manchester does not mean he gets involved in the minutae of bus operations. It would be utter nonsense to suggest otherwise.

The livery and Bee Network brand was proposed by TfGM, rubber-stamped by the Mayor's office. Burnham did not sit at his kitchen table designing the livery and deciding whether operator logos were to be present or not. He's got better things to do.

 

[Deerfold]

In this particular region, the seemingly fountain head of transport matters is indeed a politician... Andy Burnham, the Labour Mayor of Greater Manchester.

It was only when he appeared on the local transport stage that the Bee Network with its yellow livery was launched. TfGM and its predecessor GMPTE never even mentioned such a thing as the Bee Network in all the years prior to that.

The relevant legislation to allow franchising didn't become law until Burnham was Mayor. He's clearly a fan, but it simply couldn't have been done before.

Nexus in the North East had tried a similar scheme in 2013/4 but was thwarted in the courts. Until the legislation changed, no-one else was going to have a go.

 

[Goldfish62]

The relevant legislation to allow franchising didn't become law until Burnham was Mayor. He's clearly a fan, but it simply couldn't have been done before.

And indeed I believe the mayoral candidates from all the major parties were in favour of this Tory-introduced legislation.

 

[Leyland Bus]

The livery and Bee Network brand was proposed by TfGM, rubber-stamped by the Mayor's office. Burnham did not sit at his kitchen table designing the livery and deciding whether operator logos were to be present or not. He's got better things to do.

This is true but it's such a fantastic image!
I'm just imagining him agonising over how low to apply to Bee Network name from the windows...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Nexus in the North East had tried a similar scheme in 2013/4 but was thwarted in the courts. Until the legislation changed, no-one else was going to have a go.

It wasn't thwarted in the courts. It went to an independent QCS board and it was apparent that, despite being told to check their financial assumptions, Nexus had failed to get their sums right.

 

[Deerfold]

It wasn't thwarted in the courts. It went to an independent QCS board and it was apparent that, despite being told to check their financial assumptions, Nexus had failed to get their sums right.

Apologies - however, it was enough to put other authorities off the idea under the legislation at the time.

 

[Simon75]

It's like TfGM are trying to remove any reference to the private sector being involved in operating Bee Network, as private = evil to them, something even Transport for London don't do. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to persuade the government to allow them to run the buses themselves!

Though the company name is still visible on legal lettering on the bus

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Apologies - however, it was enough to put other authorities off the idea under the legislation at the time.

No worries. It may have put others off a QCS but it was really down to Nexus' ineptitude rather than the legislation. Along the lines of...

"We're going to grow revenue by so much in x years and that revenue will cover the extra costs of y"

"What happens to the gap between having enhanced services and the additional costs incurred, whilst the patronage and revenue builds? How is that funded?"

"Errr.....<tumbleweed>"

It really was as fundamental as that