2024 Tube Stock (Siemens Inspiro)

[trebor79]

What does the "Sensitive edge" button do?

 

[Mojo]

Image shows the non driving side of 24 stock with numerous buttons including trip cock reset and ATO.

Can’t be many places in the world that have had two consecutive fleets both with settings in the cab to facilitate auto operation both introduced at a time when there have been no plans to launch auto operation.

 

[Fazaar1889]

https://twitter.com/ianvisits/status/1725454796411351084?t=dI7FftsPuFnmgWv9w7Rtsw&s=19

Video of the train in motion. It looks great!

 

[Mawkie]

What does the "Sensitive edge" button do?

I hope it only opens the 1 set of doors that someone/something gets stuck in (rather than the whole train) but I have no idea.

Can’t be many places in the world that have had two consecutive fleets both with settings in the cab to facilitate auto operation both introduced at a time when there have been no plans to launch auto operation.

Indeed!

 

[Samzino]

What does the "Sensitive edge" button do?

I assume it toggles it on and off but I'd expect drivers won't be allowed to touch it outside of degraded situations.

 

[AlbertBeale]

It does seem like the Bakerloo line is the aim to get these new trains.

Any chance the Bakerloo extension will be in place before this new B'loo rolling stock is retired?! If so, but the production line for this is long since closed down, will the extended B'loo end up with mixed rolling stock?

A separate thought - how will this rolling stock get to London from the manufacturer? Towed as a "freight shipment" through the Channel Tunnel?

 

[Dstock7080]

What does the "Sensitive edge" button do?

It will illuminate if a sensitive edge activates on the train.
Pushing once will try and reset the sensitive edge.
Pushing and holding will override the activation, to be used in certain situations.

 

[Snow1964]

Considering these 24TS are meant to be lightweight units but have bogieless carriages which means two sets of vehicle weight hanging on one bogie, what is the axle load for these units?

Surely a conventional two bogie design would have reduced vehicle weight / axle load even more than the bogieless design?

It's all about shedding the pounds, remember...

Overall weight will have been reduced, less bogies, and dc motors from 1970s were bigger and heavier.

The new trains can carry about 11% more passengers, which adds about 9t when fully loaded, roughly 1 tonne per car. Fully loaded is around 85t, possibly over 100t crush loaded, or extra 5t per axle when crush loaded.

But axle weight has almost certainly gone up as new trains only have 20 instead of 24 axles

A separate thought - how will this rolling stock get to London from the manufacturer? Towed as a "freight shipment" through the Channel Tunnel?

Probably, it got towed like a freight train to Wildenrath test track, with some barrier wagons each end.

Nearly all tube trains have been delivered as whole trains, normally to Ruislip, although 1967 stock went direct to Northumberland Park (before the cut the transfer line and built flood dyke around the site). So current generation had to come by road.

Even the current 1973 stock went as full trains to Scotland when they were refurbished at Rosyth.

 

[Dstock7080]

Even the current 1973 stock went as full trains to Scotland when they were refurbished at Rosyth.

2009 Stock were delivered as individual cars by road to Northumberland Park.

1973 Stock were refurbished in Wakefield.

 

[100andthirty]

Considering these 24TS are meant to be lightweight units but have bogieless carriages which means two sets of vehicle weight hanging on one bogie, what is the axle load for these units?

Surely a conventional two bogie design would have reduced vehicle weight / axle load even more than the bogieless design?

It's all about shedding the pounds, remember...

Bogies represent about 1/3 the weight of a car. Eliminating some bogies saves weight and provides space for equipment under the floor. More info on the background, which has probably been referenced before, is here: https://www.railengineer.co.uk/piccadilly-line-trains-a-journey-from-1891-to-2025/

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Is it technically air cooling which is on the S stock then?

S Stock have HVAC rather than mere refrigerators, however they also lack humidity control.

See S Stock FOI

1. Do the trains use air conditioning (using typical refrigeration and humidity/air extraction) and/or air cooling systems (without humidity extraction)? Yes, the trains use air conditioning (HVAC) units. Each HVAC module contains a refrigerant circuit using R407C and is hermetically sealed. The HVAC units have passive ventilation but not humidity extraction.

3.Does the previously mentioned system monitor and control the humidity of the saloons? If so, what is the target relative humidity? The system doesn’t monitor/control humidity

 

[zwk500]

Any chance the Bakerloo extension will be in place before this new B'loo rolling stock is retired?! If so, but the production line for this is long since closed down, will the extended B'loo end up with mixed rolling stock?

However long the stock takes, expect any extension to take a lot longer given the relative monies involved.

A separate thought - how will this rolling stock get to London from the manufacturer? Towed as a "freight shipment" through the Channel Tunnel?

Certainly a possibility, although I haven't seen anything confirming the method of delivery and there's no obvious paths from the tunnel to any LUL infrastructure in the December timetable. Perfectly possible for paths to be put in later of course. It may depend on how easy it is to 'assemble' the train with the non-bogie intermediate vehicles on the depot - issue such as cranes and space come to mind. Also it'd be a faff to get the trains from NR to the Piccadilly line, needing to bring them onto the Met or District first and then move them to the shared sections, although road delivery direct to depot may not be any easier.

 

[Snow1964]

Certainly a possibility, although I haven't seen anything confirming the method of delivery and there's no obvious paths from the tunnel to any LUL infrastructure in the December timetable. Perfectly possible for paths to be put in later of course. It may depend on how easy it is to 'assemble' the train with the non-bogie intermediate vehicles on the depot - issue such as cranes and space come to mind. Also it'd be a faff to get the trains from NR to the Piccadilly line, needing to bring them onto the Met or District first and then move them to the shared sections, although road delivery direct to depot may not be any easier.

Isn't there a connection at West Ruislip, which allows trains to reach a transfer siding, and be taken to Ruislip depot. Although it is a Central line depot, I am sure the part of it also has engineering trains and an exit to Piccadilly line at Ickenham. From memory usually a few battery locos parked there too.

 

[zwk500]

Isn't there a connection at West Ruislip, which allows trains to reach a transfer siding, and be taken to Ruislip depot. Although it is a Central line depot, I am sure the part of it also has engineering trains and an exit to Piccadilly line at Ickenham. From memory usually a few battery locos parked there too.

There's a connection at Ruislip, not sure if you'd be able to get the new picc trains from there to the line though. Either way, transfer by rail is a faff. It's also possible the trains could be rail hauled through the tunnel to a suitable yard and then transferred by road to the Piccadilly line depot.

 

[Snow1964]

There's a connection at Ruislip, not sure if you'd be able to get the new picc trains from there to the line though. Either way, transfer by rail is a faff. It's also possible the trains could be rail hauled through the tunnel to a suitable yard and then transferred by road to the Piccadilly line depot.

Although going to be lot harder to split a train with suspended sections than uncoupling vehicles with their own bogies and rolling them off road vehicles.

Putting it back together might be difficult if got to crane the intermediate sections then carefully line them it up to bolt them back together between two bogie vehicles, especially if got to do it in a car park alongside a siding, as only place crane can work, and truck can reach

 

[Dstock7080]

Post #478 gave LUs intentions for delivery

 

[Fazaar1889]

New Piccadilly Tube Trains Tested By Siemens In Germany​

A bit more footage of the trains.

 

[Nym]

If only TfL had agreed to the initial plans of LUL for the Piccadilly Line Upgrade and build a Heavy Overhaul Depot at Ruislip for the Next Gen fleets to be shared between Picc, Central and Bakerloo lines.
The complexities of ITMPs had a means of being sorted as well back then.

 

[Thirteen]

I'm really impressed with these new trains from the footage and if TfL can get the funding for the other deep level lines then it'll be a welcome addition to the fleet.

 

[Snow1964]

I am personally not convinced the Piccadilly line needs a 27% capacity increase ahead of potentially getting new trains for Bakerloo. Especially as TfL Board reports say Elizabeth line has abstracted 3% of Piccadilly line customers

(27% is 10% more capacity per train, and increasing from 24tph to 27tph)

I would have diverted the extra trains (over base 86 to replace the 87.5 current stock) to Bakerloo line, and bought more for Bakerloo first, before expanding Piccadilly line frequency. Especially as the full proposed increase for Piccadilly (33-36 tph) needs new signalling first.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I am personally not convinced the Piccadilly line needs a 27% capacity increase ahead of potentially getting new trains for Bakerloo. Especially as TfL Board reports say Elizabeth line has abstracted 3% of Piccadilly line customers

Try travelling on the Picc next weekend and see if you still think this way.

 

[Bald Rick]

Any chance the Bakerloo extension will be in place before this new B'loo rolling stock is retired?!

Absolutely no chance whatsoever.

Back on topic, I used the Picc line yesterday for the first time in a while, and the current stock is frankly knackered.

 

[Snow1964]

Try travelling on the Picc next weekend and see if you still think this way.

The new trains lift capacity by about 10-11% compared to current stock.

My question is if a second uplift to 27% more than now (27 instead of 24 trains per hour), should be more of a priority than new trains on Bakerloo

We know the third capacity uplift which takes it nearer 160% of now is deferred until further notice (further new trains, and new signalling to allow upto 36tph).

Incidently I used the Piccadilly almost daily at rush hours for 7 years (1992-1999) including the years when the trains were being refurbished so was lot less of them available, so I know what a crush loaded train is like. They are rarely anywhere near as crowded nowadays.

 

[Central]

Overall weight will have been reduced, less bogies, and dc motors from 1970s were bigger and heavier.

The new trains can carry about 11% more passengers, which adds about 9t when fully loaded, roughly 1 tonne per car. Fully loaded is around 85t, possibly over 100t crush loaded, or extra 5t per axle when crush loaded.

But axle weight has almost certainly gone up as new trains only have 20 instead of 24 axles


Probably, it got towed like a freight train to Wildenrath test track, with some barrier wagons each end.

Nearly all tube trains have been delivered as whole trains, normally to Ruislip, although 1967 stock went direct to Northumberland Park (before the cut the transfer line and built flood dyke around the site). So current generation had to come by road.

Even the current 1973 stock went as full trains to Scotland when they were refurbished at Rosyth.

67TS went to Hainault for testing of the ATO on the Hainault-Woodford loop after fitting out at Ruislip.

 

[Rick1984]

The front looks smart but the side view is quite ugly. I don't feel the blue stripe brings anything to the party

 

[contrex]

2009 Stock were delivered as individual cars by road to Northumberland Park.

I think that is at least in part due to the fact that 2009 stock won't fit in deep-level tube tunnels of other lines?

 

[AM9]

The front looks smart but the side view is quite ugly. I don't feel the blue stripe brings anything to the party

I grew up with the 1923 standard stock as archetypal tube trains, I think the 2024 stock looks fine, - there's no need for them to emulate their predecessors.

 

[contrex]

I grew up with the 1923 standard stock as archetypal tube trains, I think the 2024 stock looks fine, - there's no need for them to emulate their predecessors.

Mine was the 1938 stock, being South London based - the Northern and Bakerloo were 'our' deep-level tubes. Standard stock was used on the Piccadilly and Central until I was 8 and 10 respectively but my parents never seemed to need to go anywhere served by them. Aged 13 in 1965, great was my delight on Twin Rover Saturdays to ride the GN & C from Moorgate to Drayton Park in Standard stock. Also Bakerloo had one Standard trailer in each 1938 unit (the so-called '58 trailers'). Plus the IOW in the 1970s. [Update: the Standard trailers in 1960 Stock in the automatic train trials on the Central around 1965]

I agree the 2024 stock looks about as good as you can reasonably expect London deep-level tube train to.

 

[trebor79]

The air conditioning will be welcome, though the Piccadilly isn't particularly hot compared to the Central or Victoria lines. Back when people first started mooting air conditioning for the deep level tubes, removing the heat from the platforms and tunnels was cited as a major difficulty. Was that just guff or how has the issue been solved?
And why are the Central and Vic so much hotter than the other deep level tubes?

 

[Silent]

I’m guessing for the Victoria line one point to the heat is that it doesn’t really ever go overground accept to the depot. So there are less spaces for the heat to escape?

I’ve heard the 2024 stock are engineered in such a way the air conditioning wouldn’t make the underground hotter. I think it would only release warm air from the air con when overground or something. I’m not knowledgeable about this.

Also I heard the paint doesn’t absorb heat.