KWVR - Infrastructure Upgrades Funded

[Iskra]

The Keighley & Worth Valley Railway (KWVR) has apparently secured funding for commuter services, with investment promised in the diesel fleet and signalling infrastructure. Does anyone have any further details as the below BBC article is very vague?

I applaud the railway in securing funding. The planned services aren't described, but I am a bit sceptical about the whole concept of the line having much viable commuter use. The KWVR is only useful for some Oxenhope and some Haworth residents, and it's a big assumption that there is a strong commuter market to Keighley, which frankly I'm not sure exists anymore in the age of remote working and with traditional 9-5 working patterns in decline. I obviously wish the railway well with this, but I am sceptical. Is this a year-round thing too, or perhaps just term time?

Levelling up funding to help Keighley heritage railway become commuter route

More than £115m of Levelling Up Fund cash has been awarded to projects in West Yorkshire.

www.bbc.co.uk

A heritage railway has been named as one of five West Yorkshire projects to receive levelling up funding from government.
The Keighley and Worth Valley Railway would become a "major transport hub and commuter route," as a result of the cash, Bradford Council said.
Schemes in Wakefield, Huddersfield and Holbeck in Leeds will also be funded.
Bradford Council leader Susan Hinchliffe said the money would "create more economic opportunities".
Under the plans, signalling will be upgraded along the five-mile railway line, which links with national mainline rail services at Keighley, to enable more trains to run and the diesel fleet will be revamped.
In total the council has been awarded nearly £20m to spend on the railway and to fund a robotics and engineering research institute in Keighley town centre.
The proposed Advanced Robotics and Engineering Institute will take up to 250 undergraduate and 40 postgraduate students to study subjects including automation, artificial intelligence and computer science.
Ms Hinchcliffe said: "The town has a proud engineering and manufacturing tradition.
"This is such an exciting project which will enhance Keighley's engineering, manufacturing and economic role in the region, putting it at the forefront of UK innovation."

 

[Rikki Lamb]

In the interests of froth and wibble, I believe more details are to be released by the railway soon.

 

[Iskra]

In the interests of froth and wibble, I believe more details are to be released by the railway soon.

Excellent. I did check the KWVR website before posting.

 

[Rikki Lamb]

Excellent. I did check the KWVR website before posting.

Must say I am intrigued too.

 

[30907]

It may be that - as has happened before - the council are being over-optimistic. I would wait and see what appears on the website, once KWVR have digested the detail. It's very good news anyway, if not necessarily for commuters.

 

[Phil56]

Keighley does seem to be a busy-ish station for commuters into Leeds, so perhaps it's more of a feeder to get more people commuting to Leeds, Bradford, maybe even York, especially if they're now on hybrid working, as people may feel trains are a more viable option for only 2 or 3 days a week rather than historically 5.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

At what time(s) of the day might KWVR provide such commuter services? Presumably would invariably normally only be operated using diesel traction?

 

[30907]

Keighley does seem to be a busy-ish station for commuters into Leeds, so perhaps it's more of a feeder to get more people commuting to Leeds, Bradford, maybe even York, especially if they're now on hybrid working, as people may feel trains are a more viable option for only 2 or 3 days a week rather than historically 5.

That has been the suggestion previously.

At what time(s) of the day might KWVR provide such commuter services?

Morning and evening peak, presumably (which are conveniently outside normal heritage hours)

Presumably would invariably normally only be operated using diesel traction?

Undoubtedly. If it happens.

 

[james_the_xv]

Presumably would invariably normally only be operated using diesel traction?

I'd imagine their pacer would be the go to unit as well, not long gone from revenue earning service in that part of the country it would seem.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think (know) we need to await KWVR comments on this, council may not have announced the right thing.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I think the K&WV tried something similar in their early days - they bought a W&M 4-wheel railbus from B.R. for the purpose.
As an aside, 'Pacers' provide a much better ride than the original 4 - wheel railbuses, - the Park Royal ones used briefly on the Northampton - Bedford service were dire.

 

[43096]

As they would be running a public service, wouldn’t the stock need to be PRM compliant?

 

[LowLevel]

If it funds getting them a decent signalling system set up and then flops I don't think it's a bad thing, as an enthusiast at least: lol:

 

[Titfield]

I think the devil will be in the detail. On one of the sections on this forum there is much debate about compliant signage for penalty fares and how prominent it has to be so that it doesnt get missed. All that sort of stuff will have to go up at each of the KWVR Stations. There will have to be TVMS, possibly tactile flooring and other equality act compliant adjustments made. Will it destroy the ambience of the heritage stations?

 

[Iskra]

I think the devil will be in the detail. On one of the sections on this forum there is much debate about compliant signage for penalty fares and how prominent it has to be so that it doesnt get missed. All that sort of stuff will have to go up at each of the KWVR Stations. There will have to be TVMS, possibly tactile flooring and other equality act compliant adjustments made. Will it destroy the ambience of the heritage stations?

I don’t think all that is necessary. The line is not becoming part of the national network. It’s merely going to run a service with existing rolling stock aimed more at commuters while remaining firmly within the heritage sector.

It’s like Avanti’s Friday charter being a charter rather than a service train…

If it funds getting them a decent signalling system set up and then flops I don't think it's a bad thing, as an enthusiast at least: lol:

Can anyone explain what the limitations of the current signalling set up are?

 

[Titfield]

I don’t think all that is necessary. The line is not becoming part of the national network. It’s merely going to run a service with existing rolling stock aimed more at commuters while remaining firmly within the heritage sector.

It’s like Avanti’s Friday charter being a charter rather than a service train…

If through ticketing is offered then surely this signage would be required? I agree it is very different if in reality KWVR are simply going to run trains at "commuter" times.

 

[Iskra]

If through ticketing is offered then surely this signage would be required? I agree it is very different if in reality KWVR are simply going to run trains at "commuter" times.

I believe that through ticketing has previously (and may even still be now) been offered from the National Network to Oxenhope (and indeed other heritage railways) so I don’t think anything else is needed at all.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I believe that through ticketing has previously (and may even still be now) been offered from the National Network to Oxenhope (and indeed other heritage railways) so I don’t think anything else is needed at all.

It is for day returns, albeit only when using 'KEIGHLEY & WVRLY' (G053) as the destination, and not as the origin.

 

[xotGD]

37075 on through services to Leeds every morning. That'll do nicely.

In seriousness, if this gets people out of their cars it will be a good thing.

The railway was previously seeking funding for a new dedicated DMU depot. I wonder if this is part of the scheme?

 

[30907]

Can anyone explain what the limitations of the current signalling set up are?

It works adequately for the basic 2-train timetable IMO.
Aspiration is to have Keighley properly signalled from the ex-Bingley Jn box and to have Haworth loop signalled from the box on site.
The former would certainly add to the look of Keighley; the latter wouldn't be so obvious to punters, but both would simplify operation at Galas etc.

The railway was previously seeking funding for a new dedicated DMU depot. I wonder if this is part of the scheme?

Diesels are certainly referenced in the BBC story. And a dedicated DMU facility would be a prerequisite for a commuter service. 2+2=?

I refer you to the comment of my honourable Ursine friend in post #10

 

[renegademaster]

Are they going to try to get classified as a proper Railway or they going to stay stuck at 25mph? It's not totally unviable, Metrolink spends a lot of it's time under 30mph but it's not ideal

 

[LowLevel]

Are they going to try to get classified as a proper Railway or they going to stay stuck at 25mph? It's not totally unviable, Metrolink spends a lot of it's time under 30mph but it's not ideal

How fast do you think they're going to go on a 5 mile branch line like that?

 

[renegademaster]

How fast do you think they're going to go on a 5 mile branch line like that?

Fair enough but if they got a modern DMU and didn't serve every stop you get 40 or so

 

[YorkshireBear]

Fair enough but if they got a modern DMU and didn't serve every stop you get 40 or so

Linespeed was 50 in BR days I believe.

However as it won't be turning into a commuter line it's all irrelevant.

 

[skyhigh]

If through ticketing is offered then surely this signage would be required? I agree it is very different if in reality KWVR are simply going to run trains at "commuter" times.

No, of course not. If they are not intending to issue Penalty Fares on their trains there is no need for them to have the signage.

 

[D6130]

How would they intend to staff these theoretical commuter trains?....not to mention the signalboxes, crossings, etc. Many of the existing volunteers - who are not exactly in the first flush of youth in some cases - travel to the line from some distance away and I can't imagine them wanting to start work at 06 00 on a freezing/ wet/windy Yorkshire Winter's morning....or be going home at 20 00. Surely full-time staff would have to been employed....at considerable cost.

 

[DarloRich]

there is a key paragraph in the linked BBC article:

"In total the council has been awarded nearly £20m to spend on the railway and to fund a robotics and engineering research institute in Keighley town centre."

MOST of that money, which are crumbs in the big scheme of things, is going on creating an institute. £20m is nothing.

 

[Iskra]

there is a key paragraph in the linked BBC article:

"In total the council has been awarded nearly £20m to spend on the railway and to fund a robotics and engineering research institute in Keighley town centre."

MOST of that money, which are crumbs in the big scheme of things, is going on creating an institute. £20m is nothing.

It’s not that relevant though considering most of the stock and infrastructure already exists and is presumably funded. So even a ‘small’ sum, could go a long way, particularly with volunteer labour too.

 

[D6130]

there is a key paragraph in the linked BBC article:

"In total the council has been awarded nearly £20m to spend on the railway and to fund a robotics and engineering research institute in Keighley town centre."

MOST of that money, which are crumbs in the big scheme of things, is going on creating an institute. £20m is nothing.

Perhaps the new institute will find a way for the new commuter services and signalling installations to be operated by robots....instead of scarce volunteers!

 

[Ralph Ayres]

The word "commuter" is often used in the media just to mean normal passengers. They're possibly envisaging the KWVR being used by tourists going to Haworth or by shoppers, as much as people heading to work at 8am and home again at 5.