Remaining Effects of Covid

[Peter Sarf]

Best start with all the MP’s then and lead by example…

Will never happen of course - sadly.

In my ideal world a halfway house would be found. Get rid of the most extreme cases (except where blatant and serial offences have happened - but by whos standards ?). But let ALL politicians know they are not above the law.

I'm not sure lockdown was anti-capitalist though. Large multinational companies weathered it much better than small companies and individuals.

I have wondered this. Did Covid affect small businesses worse than the larger ones.

 

[nw1]

I have wondered this. Did Covid affect small businesses worse than the larger ones.

I certainly saw permanent closures of smaller-to-medium businesses in my area. But I guess that simple logic will dictate this is the case - a large company with online purchasing options would be better placed to weather months of enforced closure than a small business with no online presence.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Worst hit even than small or medium relatively well-established businesses were sole traders. Speaking as a sole trader who has not and probably will never recover from covid

 

[Bikeman78]

Worst hit even than small or medium relatively well-established businesses were sole traders. Speaking as a sole trader who has not and probably will never recover from covid

Exactly. My friend looks after people's dogs whilst they are at work or on holiday. I expect you can guess how much demand there was for that during lockdown. She was doing okay before Covid.

 

[DustyBin]

Exactly. My friend looks after people's dogs whilst they are at work or on holiday. I expect you can guess how much demand there was for that during lockdown. She was doing okay before Covid.

Followed by a permanent reduction as more people now work from home I suspect?

When I see and hear what many people and businesses have been (and continue to go) through, I consider myself fortunate really.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The self-employed were effectively hung out to dry in march 2020 and how we coped afterwards depended very much on where you lived and what restrictions the localized version of the democratic dictatorship we live in at such time Joe's to operate. The way that self-employment grants were handled was also poor, many small businesses or soul traders simply break even and don't necessarily turn a profit and many are content that way, but the fact that you had to turn a profit in the previous financial year to be entitled to anything in the way of support was not a good system and hopefully some lessons will be learned. This is yet another of these situations that probably would not have been improved had we had a different government because of course we saw three different parties in three different parts of the UK, none of which made any special effort to help us as a group but yet in some areas special efforts from aid to target particular people for support

 

[nw1]

Exactly. My friend looks after people's dogs whilst they are at work or on holiday. I expect you can guess how much demand there was for that during lockdown. She was doing okay before Covid.

I remember literally in my local neighbourhood a business which did precisely that was up and running around 2019. They seemed to be expanding, too, they went from having one to two branded vehicles. All gone now.

 

[brad465]

Derek Draper has died, who was arguably the most extreme case of long covid, and had several complications as a result:

Derek Draper: Kate Garraway says husband has died, aged 56

The former political adviser, had multiple health issues after first being hospitalised with Covid in 2020.

www.bbc.co.uk

Derek Draper, the author and former political adviser, has died aged 56, his wife Kate Garraway has said.

Draper had been living with extreme complications from Covid since contracting the disease in March 2020.
TV presenter Garraway confirmed his death in a statement posted on Instagram.
"I'm sad to have to tell you all that my darling husband Derek has passed away," she wrote.
"As some of you may know he has been critically ill following a cardiac arrest in early December which, because of the damage inflicted by Covid in March 2020, led to further complications.
"Derek was surrounded by his family in his final days and I was by his side holding his hand throughout the last long hours and when he passed."

 

[wilbers]

Two European hotspots make face masks mandatory again as UK urged to follow

The World Health Organization (WHO) Director-General has urged people to put their face masks back on, as the UK battles against a dramatic surge in Covid cases.

www.express.co.uk

Two European hotspots and several US states have returned to making masks mandatory, in a move that will affect British holidaymakers. But one World Health Organization (WHO) chief has said the UK should adopt the same measure.

Bit surprised to read this, sounds like Greece has the most draconian of those restrictions, everywhere else its a more minor change - in health settings only.

 

[Richard Scott]

Two European hotspots make face masks mandatory again as UK urged to follow

The World Health Organization (WHO) Director-General has urged people to put their face masks back on, as the UK battles against a dramatic surge in Covid cases.

www.express.co.uk

Bit surprised to read this, sounds like Greece has the most draconian of those restrictions, everywhere else its a more minor change - in health settings only.

Ridiculous, some people cannot let this go and just carry on with life.
At which point will they accept that masks are pointless and just a waste of Earth's resources?

 

[TAS]

Two European hotspots make face masks mandatory again as UK urged to follow

The World Health Organization (WHO) Director-General has urged people to put their face masks back on, as the UK battles against a dramatic surge in Covid cases.

www.express.co.uk

Bit surprised to read this, sounds like Greece has the most draconian of those restrictions, everywhere else its a more minor change - in health settings only.

Your surprise is well-founded: it simply isn't true. The Express is showing its customary disdain for its readers and I continue to be surprised that anyone relies on anything it publishes.

This is how the Greek newspaper Kathimerini reported the same announcement by the Greek government - no restrictions, just guidance:

Amid the recent upsurge of respiratory viral infections, health experts are recommending the use of face masks in crowded areas, hand antiseptics, tests in case of respiratory symptoms, and above all the need for vaccination against Covid-19 and influenza of people at high risk of serious disease. A little stronger is the recommendation made by the experts for the use of masks in healthcare units, to protect patients and staff.

The recommendations were issued after a regular meeting of the Health Ministry’s Committee of Experts which examined the latest epidemiological data on Covid-19.

According to this data, there continues to be an increase in the number of cases – including in young age groups – and in simple hospitalizations, but without any particular pressure on the health system.

More specifically, the data released by the representatives of public hospital workers (POEDIN) showed that on Thursday, 1,027 patients were hospitalized with Covid-19 in the 2,443 beds reserved for casses of the disease at the country’s hospitals.

“As expected, with the events and gatherings of the festive season, we are seeing a greater increase in Covid-19 cases, without putting much pressure on the hospitals and especially the ICUs,” said Pagona Lagiou, professor of hygiene and epidemiology at the University of Athens School of Medicine and adjunct professor of epidemiology at Harvard University, in comments to Kathimerini.

“For these reasons, we felt that we should remind people of the measures to protect themselves from Covid-19 and avoid spreading the virus,” she said.

 

[Mojo]

Although the US city of St Louis did attempt to reintroduce an indoor mask mandate yesterday, for city employees. Apparently imposed by a rogue public health director. It lasted less than 24 hours with many people including the state Governor taking credit.

 

[wilbers]

Well, that makes a lot more sense. I thought it was an over-zealous health official with an abundance of caution.

 

[nw1]

Your surprise is well-founded: it simply isn't true. The Express is showing its customary disdain for its readers and I continue to be surprised that anyone relies on anything it publishes.

This is how the Greek newspaper Kathimerini reported the same announcement by the Greek government - no restrictions, just guidance:

I'm amazed the Express hasn't been sued out of existence by now, to be honest. Or been prosecuted criminally for headlines in the past few years which, in my opinion, promoted hatred against EU immigrants.

 

[43096]

Are people still falling for the nonsense that masks are effective? Absolutely astonishing.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Are people still falling for the nonsense that masks are effective? Absolutely astonishing.

My belief is that normal masks do not protect the wearer much, if at all. However the mask would be reducing the amount of waterborne virus spreading FROM the wearer. How effective I don't know. Could be that the main benefits of masks is that masks provide confidence to the wearer or those around them to carry on as normal !.

Other measures that I think (hope) were more useful are :-
Cleaning of frequently touched areas (door handles etc). I was amazed at my factory how much dirt we got off door handles and surrounds in the first week we dd it. That dirt/grime/grease must have been harbouring all sorts of bugs !.
Better air filtration (replacing or indeed actually re-instating). I know little about this but apparently certain settings have improved the air handling.

 

[yorkie]

My belief is that normal masks do not protect the wearer much, if at all...

Not this again!

Effective masks, e.g. FFP2/FFP3, do protect the wearer.

The reason pro-mask lobbyists don't like to admit this, is because they are keen to spout the line that "my mask doesn't protect me, it protects you; I need you to wear a mask to protect me and others" in a ludicrous attempt to justify mask mandates.

In reality, anyone who wants to protect themsleves, can do so by wearing an effective mask, if they wish to do so.

However for most people this would be fairly pointless as this cannot prevent people being exposed to Sars-CoV-2; it can potentially delay it. The virus was always destined to reach endemic equilibrium and it is inevitable that everyone is going to be regularly exposed to Sars-CoV-2 multiple times throughout our lifetimes; those who claimed otherwise were deluded.

However the mask would be reducing the amount of waterborne virus spreading FROM the wearer.

There is no evidence that wearing flimsy, loose fitting masks reduces the spread of respiatory viruses such as Sars-CoV-2.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Not this again!

Effective masks, e.g. FFP2/FFP3, do protect the wearer.

The reason pro-mask lobbyists don't like to admit this, is because they are keen to spout the line that "my mask doesn't protect me, it protects you; I need you to wear a mask to protect me and others" in a ludicrous attempt to justify mask mandates.

In reality, anyone who wants to protect themsleves, can do so by wearing an effective mask, if they wish to do so.

However for most people this would be fairly pointless as this cannot prevent people being exposed to Sars-CoV-2; it can potentially delay it. The virus was always destined to reach endemic equilibrium and it is inevitable that everyone is going to be regularly exposed to Sars-CoV-2 multiple times throughout our lifetimes; those who claimed otherwise were deluded.


There is no evidence that wearing flimsy, loose fitting masks reduces the spread of respiatory viruses such as Sars-CoV-2.

Yes I was referring to the more common by far masks that are lesser than FFP2/FFP3.

In all this the only justification of most protections was to slow the spread of Covid so it resulted a manageable number of serious cases needing hospital support day-by-day, week-by-weak etc. It is open to debate how effective each protective measure was. We are now well past the out of control spread stage as Covid is now endemic but almost everyone has an immune system that has got used to it (courtesy of the slow spread but nailed completely by vaccination).

I feel it is likely that some of the measures (cleaning) have resulted in a general reduction in infections. Wonder how long before we forget that. I certainly think more about touching things like door handles than I used to !.

 

[Richard Scott]

Yes I was referring to the more common by far masks that are lesser than FFP2/FFP3.

In all this the only justification of most protections was to slow the spread of Covid so it resulted a manageable number of serious cases needing hospital support day-by-day, week-by-weak etc. It is open to debate how effective each protective measure was. We are now well past the out of control spread stage as Covid is now endemic but almost everyone has an immune system that has got used to it (courtesy of the slow spread but nailed completely by vaccination).

I feel it is likely that some of the measures (cleaning) have resulted in a general reduction in infections. Wonder how long before we forget that. I certainly think more about touching things like door handles than I used to !.

Fairly sure it was proven early in it wasn't transmitted by touch so all the handwashing and using hand sanitiser was a waste of time.

 

[jon81uk]

Fairly sure it was proven early in it wasn't transmitted by touch so all the handwashing and using hand sanitiser was a waste of time.

Yes but the comment was about a general reduction in infections, not specifically covid-19. Its possible that cases of E-Coli, Norovirus etc have dropped due to some people being more mindful of hand hygiene. Although I think many people who did increase handwashing due to the pandemic have returned to old bad habits anyway.

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes but the comment was about a general reduction in infections, not specifically covid-19. Its possible that cases of E-Coli, Norovirus etc have dropped due to some people being more mindful of hand hygiene. Although I think many people who did increase handwashing due to the pandemic have returned to old bad habits anyway.

I think it's largely down to luck. I've never been OCD about cleaning. I wash my hands after using the toilet and generally keep the house clean and tidy but that's it. I carried on touching buttons, handrails etc throughout Covid and never caught it. I hardly ever get ill. Conversely, last year I went out with a woman that was the biggest OCD clean freak I will ever meet. Yet she seems to have caught every disease known to the human race.

I feel it is likely that some of the measures (cleaning) have resulted in a general reduction in infections. Wonder how long before we forget that. I certainly think more about touching things like door handles than I used to !.

I think there is a risk of over thinking these things. Back in the day, trains dumped on the track so the external door handles were most likely covered in it. Didn't seem to do me any harm. Since having kids, and all the bodily fluids that entails, I've become even less concerned about such things!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think it's largely down to luck. I've never been OCD about cleaning. I wash my hands after using the toilet and generally keep the house clean and tidy but that's it. I carried on touching buttons, handrails etc throughout Covid and never caught it. I hardly ever get ill. Conversely, last year I went out with a woman that was the biggest OCD clean freak I will ever meet. Yet she seems to have caught every disease known to the human race.

That's probably her issue - she's not giving her immune system a chance to build up any resistance to anything.

 

[Bikeman78]

That's probably her issue - she's not giving her immune system a chance to build up any resistance to anything.

That's exactly what I thought but I was polite enough not to point that out to her.

 

[yorkie]

Yes I was referring to the more common by far masks that are lesser than FFP2/FFP3.

Yes, the flimsy loose fitting ones, which often say on the packet they are not for this purpose.

In all this the only justification of most protections was to slow the spread of Covid so it resulted a manageable number of serious cases needing hospital support day-by-day, week-by-weak etc

The wearing of effective masks would slow the spread; indeed I previously linked to studies showing this

The wearing of ineffective masks was not based on real world evidence. We have been through this before; don't you remember previous threads?

. It is open to debate how effective each protective measure was.

It is and it's been debated many times before, but you only have to look at Sweden to realise that the mass wearing of flimsy masks in countries such as ours, was clearly a waste of time. And who can forget people lecturing us about Germany (& Czechia etc) in the Summer and early Autumn of 2020, only for those people to go very, very quiet at the onset of Winter!

We are now well past the out of control spread stage as Covid is now endemic but almost everyone has an immune system that has got used to it (courtesy of the slow spread but nailed completely by vaccination).

Endemic equilibrium was always going to be the ultimate outcome; those who claimed otherwise were deluded.

 

[jon81uk]

I think it's largely down to luck. I've never been OCD about cleaning. I wash my hands after using the toilet and generally keep the house clean and tidy but that's it. I carried on touching buttons, handrails etc throughout Covid and never caught it. I hardly ever get ill. Conversely, last year I went out with a woman that was the biggest OCD clean freak I will ever meet. Yet she seems to have caught every disease known to the human race.

Covid-19 is airborne so cleaning hands wouldn’t have made a lot of difference to you catching it or not

 

[nw1]

Covid-19 is airborne so cleaning hands wouldn’t have made a lot of difference to you catching it or not

Remember Boris himself (if I remember right) lecturing us on how we should wash our hands for 20 secs at a time.

Was this actually good advice in retrospect, or did it lead to a lot of skin problems?

20 seconds is quite a long time and I do wonder why they advised us to do this. I wonder whether it was all part of a "game" to make less-vulnerable groups more fearful and less complacent of Covid?

 

[Richard Scott]

Remember Boris himself (if I remember right) lecturing us on how we should wash our hands for 20 secs at a time.

Was this actually good advice in retrospect, or did it lead to a lot of skin problems?

20 seconds is quite a long time and I do wonder why they advised us to do this. I wonder whether it was all part of a "game" to make less-vulnerable groups more fearful and less complacent of Covid?

I never used hand sanitiser due to effect it had on my skin, used to get some staff in certain places get very shirty when I refused.

 

[JamesT]

Remember Boris himself (if I remember right) lecturing us on how we should wash our hands for 20 secs at a time.

Was this actually good advice in retrospect, or did it lead to a lot of skin problems?

20 seconds is quite a long time and I do wonder why they advised us to do this. I wonder whether it was all part of a "game" to make less-vulnerable groups more fearful and less complacent of Covid?

It’s the length of time recommended by various medical organisations, NHS, CDC, WHO. There have been studies (such as https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25836392/ ) on how much bacteria is left after various variations on washing.
Although it is now known to be irrelevant for COVID, it seems to be general good advice given how many things can be picked up and passed on through dirty hands.
Excessive hand washing may exacerbate conditions such as eczema, but that’s probably more linked to the frequency of handwashing than how long each wash is. It can also be mitigated with lotions.

 

[jon81uk]

Remember Boris himself (if I remember right) lecturing us on how we should wash our hands for 20 secs at a time.

Was this actually good advice in retrospect, or did it lead to a lot of skin problems?

20 seconds is quite a long time and I do wonder why they advised us to do this. I wonder whether it was all part of a "game" to make less-vulnerable groups more fearful and less complacent of Covid?

Its good advice for getting clean hands and killing/removing bacteria. Just four years ago it wasn't known that it was an airborne virus so handwashing was first advice, then once known its airborne the advice switched to masks.

But overall if you are washing hands you should do it for twenty seconds.

 

[Richard Scott]

Its good advice for getting clean hands and killing/removing bacteria. Just four years ago it wasn't known that it was an airborne virus so handwashing was first advice, then once known its airborne the advice switched to masks.

Both of which were wrong then? So much for following the science? Who's science were we following?