Remaining Effects of Covid

[JamesT]

Both of which were wrong then? So much for following the science? Who's science were we following?

WHO's science, mostly

 

[nw1]

Its good advice for getting clean hands and killing/removing bacteria. Just four years ago it wasn't known that it was an airborne virus so handwashing was first advice, then once known its airborne the advice switched to masks.

But overall if you are washing hands you should do it for twenty seconds.

Personally, it caused skin problems (dry skin/irritation/chapping) during the initial months of lockdown (which I didn't have prior to Covid) so perhaps it was over-the-top.

I would class 20 seconds as excessive personally.

Of course, irritated skin is, I suspect, more likely to permit entry of viruses and the like.

I'd agree that washing hands after you returned home would make sense. BUT, I believe the 20-second advice of Boris and co was excessive. (But Boris, Hancock and the like were of course the classic 'do as I say don't do as I do' types...)

 

[Peter Sarf]

Personally, it caused skin problems (dry skin/irritation/chapping) during the initial months of lockdown (which I didn't have prior to Covid) so perhaps it was over-the-top.

I would class 20 seconds as excessive personally.

Of course, irritated skin is, I suspect, more likely to permit entry of viruses and the like.

I'd agree that washing hands after you returned home would make sense. BUT, I believe the 20-second advice of Boris and co was excessive. (But Boris, Hancock and the like were of course the classic 'do as I say don't do as I do' types...)

When I saw how much dirt we were daily getting off door handles (and surrounds) at work I realised how important it was to wash my hands after using doors not just after going to the loo !. Obviously not feasible but it made me think about what I used to touch frequently touched areas and how to avoid that being what I used to scratch my head/eye etc and eat !. To be fair the amount of dirt on door furniture dropped off dramatically after a week of daily cleans.

But it made me realise how lax cleanliness was before Covid. Probably over the top since Covid but rest assured we will get lax again. I am open minded as to how much the cleaning reduced Covid but it must have reduced other infections as well.

I am left being rather unwilling to touch things other people have touched like escalator handrails, handrails in busses & trains and buttons I press with my wrist or elbow.

I have now had three colds since November 2023 to now (Jan 2024). None before that since Covid came along *. So I guess all the other bugs we are used to are now getting a look in. Or maybe an after effect of the Covid I had in December 2020 is that the body has no colds for three years then lots since then - just wild conjecture. I never really had Flu in my life but Covid got me good and proper in Dec 2020 !.

* = With hindsight I wish I could test to see if these recent colds are all I now get from Covid as it is quite likely true.

 

[jon81uk]

Personally, it caused skin problems (dry skin/irritation/chapping) during the initial months of lockdown (which I didn't have prior to Covid) so perhaps it was over-the-top.

I would class 20 seconds as excessive personally.

Of course, irritated skin is, I suspect, more likely to permit entry of viruses and the like.

I'd agree that washing hands after you returned home would make sense. BUT, I believe the 20-second advice of Boris and co was excessive. (But Boris, Hancock and the like were of course the classic 'do as I say don't do as I do' types...)

Its not "Boris and co" advice it is standard guidance on how long to wash your hands for to ensure all bacteria is killed or removed. The dry skin is more likely due to the number of times washed than the length of each one. Feel glad you don't work in a kitchen or hospital where regular proper handwashing is needed for hygiene reasons and the 15-30 second guide existed for hospitals before the pandemic.
This poster is common in hospitals https://www.hey.nhs.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Hand-washing-1.png and came about due to MRSA.

 

[nw1]

Its not "Boris and co" advice it is standard guidance on how long to wash your hands for to ensure all bacteria is killed or removed. The dry skin is more likely due to the number of times washed than the length of each one. Feel glad you don't work in a kitchen or hospital where regular proper handwashing is needed for hygiene reasons and the 15-30 second guide existed for hospitals before the pandemic.
This poster is common in hospitals https://www.hey.nhs.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Hand-washing-1.png and came about due to MRSA.

As I said, excessive handwashing causes health problems of its own. Cracked, irritated and bleeding skin is a possible side effect of excessive use of detergent on the skin and can't be considered healthy. And remember the advice was not just about the 20 seconds but about the frequency too.

Furthermore Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is a real, and very unpleasant, mental health condition and the last thing you want to do is to be exacerbating sufferers' condition by telling them that they have to handwash to an excessive and obsessive extent. Yet this was precisely the messaging during Covid.

 

[Bald Rick]

When I saw how much dirt we were daily getting off door handles (and surrounds) at work I realised how important it was to wash my hands after using doors not just after going to the loo !

This is sound evidence for the principle that gentlemen should wash their hands before making use of a urinal, and not after (given that what a gentlemen will be touching is wrapped up in protective packaging away from the horrors and filth of the environment).

 

[wilbers]

Chinese lab 'creates' mutant Covid strain with 100% kill rate in 'humanised' mice

MSN

The virus, known as GX-P2V, had a 100 per cent kill rate when it was used to infect a special breed of so-called “humanised” mice.

This means their brains had been genetically engineered to express a protein found in humans, to better understand how we might react to the virus.

The sobering findings suggest that if the disease were to spread among people, the effects could potentially be cataclysmic.

Its not just me that thinks this is a very, very bad idea to create this anywhere is it? Makes the original Covid seem relatively benign even though it self-evidently wasn't.

 

[Richard Scott]

Chinese lab 'creates' mutant Covid strain with 100% kill rate in 'humanised' mice

MSN

Its not just me that thinks this is a very, very bad idea to create this anywhere is it? Makes the original Covid seem relatively benign even though it self-evidently wasn't.

Looks like some scaremongering going on here. A virus with 100% kill rate won't last long either as won't transmit to sufficient people, before killing its host, to make it viable. Also likely that there will be some people who's immune systems will deal with it.

 

[Russel]

Looks like some scaremongering going on here. A virus with 100% kill rate won't last long either as won't transmit to sufficient people, before killing its host, to make it viable. Also likely that there will be some people who's immune systems will deal with it.

Weather it infects a couple of people in China or spreads globally like Covid, it's still playing Russian Roulette with peoples lives.

 

[Richard Scott]

Weather it infects a couple of people in China or spreads globally like Covid, it's still playing Russian Roulette with peoples lives.

I don't for one minute believe a word of that article. It's pure scaremongering.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I don't for one minute believe a word of that article. It's pure scaremongering.

Yes I read it yesterday iirc. It did not quite make sense. Loads bits taken out of context and made into one story most likely.

 

[Chrysalis]

They didn't "create" the GX_P2V(short_3UTR) virus that's referred to here, they cloned an already existing virus to evaluate how a genetically homologous clone would affect these humanized mice. The study referred to in the earlier linked website is this one:

Lethal Infection of Human ACE2-Transgenic Mice Caused by SARS-CoV-2-related Pangolin Coronavirus GX_P2V(short_3UTR)

SARS-CoV-2-related pangolin coronavirus GX\_P2V(short\_3UTR) can cause 100% mortality in human ACE2-transgenic mice, potentially attributable to late-stage brain infection. This underscores a spillover risk of GX_P2V into humans and provides a unique model for understanding the pathogenic...

www.biorxiv.org

It is only a preprint and has not yet been peer reviewed. It lacks quite a few details needed to draw conclusions about whether it's good quality research or not.

I find this concerning as the mutation of the mice strain used in the study has the human version of a protein called ACE2, which is the main entry point of quite a few corona viruses. However, this appears to be the only similarity between these mice and humans, so it's not certain at all that this virus would affect humans the same way.

I don't see the point in conducting this research. The very precise virus studied here, with the precise mutation mentioned in the preprint, does not exist in nature. How it affects mice (humanised or otherwise) is therefore not relevant.

 

[gswindale]

I don't see the point in conducting this research. The very precise virus studied here, with the precise mutation mentioned in the preprint, does not exist in nature. How it affects mice (humanised or otherwise) is therefore not relevant.

But the worry is that if it exists in "lab" conditions, can it get out and into nature?

 

[Chrysalis]

But the worry is that if it exists in "lab" conditions, can it get out and into nature?

Only if they're extremely clumsy and only if they don't follow the many rules their lab no doubt has in place. From experience, the regulations are extremely strict for working with this sort of virus (at least in Europe), and I expect it's the same in China. The rules are strict even when you work with non-hazardous viruses. I expect they've gotten lots of criticism from all kinds of sources over these experiments, so I'm hoping they'll make sure they're careful (or better still, destroy the virus).

 

[gswindale]

Only if they're extremely clumsy and only if they don't follow the many rules their lab no doubt has in place. From experience, the regulations are extremely strict for working with this sort of virus (at least in Europe), and I expect it's the same in China. The rules are strict even when you work with non-hazardous viruses. I expect they've gotten lots of criticism from all kinds of sources over these experiments, so I'm hoping they'll make sure they're careful (or better still, destroy the virus).

That's what you'd hope, but the following suggests that doesn't always happen! https://www.theguardian.com/science...e-uk-lab-staff-to-potentially-lethal-diseases

 

[DustyBin]

That's what you'd hope, but the following suggests that doesn't always happen! https://www.theguardian.com/science...e-uk-lab-staff-to-potentially-lethal-diseases

If it did, this thread wouldn’t exist!

(I appreciate we don’t know for sure that SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a lab in Wuhan, but it’s by far the most plausible explanation IMO).

 

[Peter Sarf]

If it did, this thread wouldn’t exist!

(I appreciate we don’t know for sure that SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a lab in Wuhan, but it’s by far the most plausible explanation IMO).

If the lab in Wuhan is where Covid19 escaped from I wonder how long ago that lab in Wuhan first identified it. It could indicate that the Chinese know a lot more about the long term effects of Covid19 than the rest of the world does ?. Just a question/speculation built on possibility.

 

[Richard Scott]

If the lab in Wuhan is where Covid19 escaped from I wonder how long ago that lab in Wuhan first identified it. It could indicate that the Chinese know a lot more about the long term effects of Covid19 than the rest of the world does ?. Just a question/speculation built on possibility.

My guess is long term effects for most people are same as other common viruses, you get it, feel rubbish for a few days then you get over it and on with your life. Why would this one be any different?

 

[Bald Rick]

Changing subject slightly, several of my friends and (close) family have recently come down with something thst has all the symptoms of Covid - feeling rotten and notably losing sense of smell - but all tested negative.

New strain that the tests don’t pick up?

 

[Peter Sarf]

My guess is long term effects for most people are same as other common viruses, you get it, feel rubbish for a few days then you get over it and on with your life. Why would this one be any different?

For example is long Covid a long term effect that other viruses don't give us.

I was mainly thinking of something that pops up as a health issue in years to come that only affects people who previously had Covid19.

Changing subject slightly, several of my friends and (close) family have recently come down with something thst has all the symptoms of Covid - feeling rotten and notably losing sense of smell - but all tested negative.

New strain that the tests don’t pick up?

I have had three "colds" since November. Not one of them was a stinker but I seem to have them for weeks nose to tail. Should try and dig out a Covid test next time but I think you have answered my curiosity.

As a 64 year old my life has involved only VERY light brushes with Viruses. But Covid did hammer me with not many of the symptoms but a week 99% unconscious in bed.

Maybe a long term effect of Covid is how we react to other viruses ?.

A less sinister idea is that perhaps I am encountering a back log of evolved colds that I had evaded over the last 3+ years while trying to evade Covid. Maybe its not even worse but my standards might have evolved due to time letting me forget how colds feel ?.

 

[DustyBin]

Changing subject slightly, several of my friends and (close) family have recently come down with something thst has all the symptoms of Covid - feeling rotten and notably losing sense of smell - but all tested negative.

New strain that the tests don’t pick up?

I know a lot of people who’ve experienced the same (but haven’t tested). It could be a new variant, or out of date tests?

For example is long Covid a long term effect that other viruses don't give us.

I was mainly thinking of something that pops up as a health issue in years to come that only affects people who previously had Covid19.

Personally I doubt it. Post-viral fatigue is a well known and understood condition. What I think has happened is that virtually the entire population became infected with a novel virus over a short period of time, and that has led to a relatively high absolute number of people with PVS.

I would also add that my wife predicted, with a high degree of accuracy, which of her employees would be first to contract covid in 2020, and which would subsequently suffer with “long covid” (largely the same individuals). Read into that what you will!

 

[Bald Rick]

I know a lot of people who’ve experienced the same (but haven’t tested). It could be a new variant, or out of date tests?

The tests are fine - they confirmed I had Covid recently.

 

[DustyBin]

The tests are fine - they confirmed I had Covid recently.

I think it’s probably a new variant in that case (or another virus is now causing covid-like symptoms!).

 

[Ashfordian6]

A less sinister idea is that perhaps I am encountering a back log of evolved colds that I had evaded over the last 3+ years while trying to evade Covid. Maybe its not even worse but my standards might have evolved due to time letting me forget how colds feel ?.

Overall in simple terms it is what you have written above.

However, some(could be many) will also have psychological damage from the last 4 years regarding colds, etc, aka the Nocebo effect

 

[Bikeman78]

I would also add that my wife predicted, with a high degree of accuracy, which of her employees would be first to contract covid in 2020, and which would subsequently suffer with “long covid” (largely the same individuals). Read into that what you will!

I expect the same conversation took place in every office around the country with similar levels of accuracy. It certainly did in mine.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I think it’s probably a new variant in that case (or another virus is now causing covid-like symptoms!).

Variants won't evade the tests.

It's more than likely a normal cold; I've had many colds over the past 40+ years in which I briefly lost the ability to taste.

 

[DustyBin]

Variants won't evade the tests.

It's more than like a normal cold; I've had many colds over the past 40+ years in which I briefly lost the ability to taste.

Fair enough, although I’ve honestly never experienced a cold like that myself. I’ve had colds where my sense of taste and smell have been affected, but only covid has left me with absolutely nothing at all. It was quite surreal actually; I remember spraying anti-perspirant one morning and noticing I couldn’t smell anything, and then going downstairs and making Marmite on toast and not tasting anything. At that point I realised I had covid!

 

[yorkie]

Pandemic puppy owners struggle with bad behaviour say vets

Some owners use methods that distress and confuse their dogs, the Royal Veterinary College warns.

www.bbc.co.uk

Dogs bought in the pandemic have high rates of problem behaviours, a Royal Veterinary College study suggests.
It estimates high rates of behaviours such as separation anxiety and aggression towards other dogs

Yet another of the many longer term harms induced by lockdowns, which had very dubious and theoretical short term benefits.

I hope that all of the longer term drawbacks of lockdowns are properly analyised and considered, so that we can avoid making such rash decisions in future.

There are so many harms caused by lockdowns, which the pro-lockdown lobbyists never predicted or admitted may happen, and more harms seem to be uncovered all the time.

 

[Richard Scott]

Pandemic puppy owners struggle with bad behaviour say vets

Some owners use methods that distress and confuse their dogs, the Royal Veterinary College warns.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yet another of the many longer term harms induced by lockdowns, which had very dubious and theoretical short term benefits.

I hope that all of the longer term drawbacks of lockdowns are properly analyised and considered, so that we can avoid making such rash decisions in future.

There are so many harms caused by lockdowns, which the pro-lockdown lobbyists never predicted or admitted may happen, and more harms seem to be uncovered all the time.

It's annoying that a lot of the subsequent harm caused was called by a number of us very early on.

 

[Jamiescott1]

The website of my local newsquest newspaper still has coronavirus as one of the options on the drop down menu.