Potential future uses for class 68 & Mk5 sets?

[12LDA28C]

Could I ask is there actually any link to these mods that you often talk about?

Not that I'm aware of. I wouldn't expect DRS or Beacon to publish the details online for public consumption.

 

[Neptune]

Not that I'm aware of. I wouldn't expect DRS or Beacon to publish the details online for public consumption.

So there’s no actual evidence that this actually a thing? It’s just word of mouth or rumour?

 

[Peter Sarf]

So there’s no actual evidence that this actually a thing? It’s just word of mouth or rumour?

There was a recent article in Modern Railways. From it I recall thinking it is obvious Chiltern have to mitigate the noise if they are going to continue with 68s. Chiltern have an invitation to tender out for replacement stock with an in service date so soon that new build is not really possible. The big if is if the tender has 68s + Mk5s in mind or other existing stock like 175s is possible.

EDIT
Just spotted the following on the main non-speculative thread.

The TPE Class 68s are still on lease to TPE until later this year so are not available to DRS yet. Also according to the latest (February 2024) Modern Railways Chiltern are very interested in taking the Class 68s and Mark 5 sets on to replace their existing Mark 3 sets.

They already have a tender out for replacement stock, which seems to fit the Mark 5's. The tender mentions availability for training in 2024 and entry into service in 2025, so there is no time for any new builds.

Nothing concrete mind. But a bit more obvious than total speculation perhaps.

 

[Neptune]

There was a recent article in Modern Railways. From it I recall thinking it is obvious Chiltern have to mitigate the noise if they are going to continue with 68s. Chiltern have an invitation to tender out for replacement stock with an in service date so soon that new build is not really possible. The big if is if the tender has 68s + Mk5s in mind or other existing stock like 175s is possible.

EDIT
Just spotted the following on the main non-speculative thread.


Nothing concrete mind. But a bit more obvious than total speculation perhaps.

Thanks.

I’m afraid I take what is written in magazines with a pinch of salt even if it is everyone’s favourite Modern Railways. I tend to think that the writers of this magazine have huge amounts of FOMO so always try and sound like the absolute authority on all things railway which like everyone, they’re actually not. Still, there’s more chance of it being true than if it was in RAIL!

Until I see something concrete from within the industry then as far as I’m concerned it is just blind speculation.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks.

I’m afraid I take what is written in magazines with a pinch of salt even if it is everyone’s favourite Modern Railways. I tend to think that the writers of this magazine have huge amounts of FOMO so always try and sound like the absolute authority on all things railway which like everyone, they’re actually not. Still, there’s more chance of it being true than if it was in RAIL!

Until I see something concrete from within the industry then as far as I’m concerned it is just blind speculation.

Yes we need to see something more concrete. But then this is a speculation thread so it maybe wont appear here !.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’m afraid I take what is written in magazines with a pinch of salt even if it is everyone’s favourite Modern Railways. I tend to think that the writers of this magazine have huge amounts of FOMO so always try and sound like the absolute authority on all things railway which like everyone, they’re actually not.

They largely are, to be fair, or have the contacts in industry to be so. I don't recall reading things in MR that were actively wrong, though being the friends of industry they are usually reluctant to criticise things (such as LNER's fare rise and flexibility removal pilot).

 

[Neptune]

They largely are, to be fair, or have the contacts in industry to be so. I don't recall reading things in MR that were actively wrong, though being the friends of industry they are usually reluctant to criticise things (such as LNER's fare rise and flexibility removal pilot).

I’ve never liked the tone. “Our opinion on the industry is the right one” is how it has always come across to me. If it didn’t have this arrogant tone then maybe it would help my perception of the magazine.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I’ve never liked the tone. “Our opinion on the industry is the right one” is how it has always come across to me. If it didn’t have this arrogant tone then maybe it would help my perception of the magazine.

The regular "Informed Sources" column in Modern Railways seems a good source of facts. The author ,Roger Ford, does seem to avoid masking conjecture as fact. He goes into quite good analysis. It indicates to me that Himself and/or Modern Railways have some pretty useful sources.

 

[m79900]

DRS has announced it is disposing of all six of its remaining 37s, which will presumably mean more freight work for the 68s.

Direct Rail Services Announces Retirement of Class 37 Locomotives - Direct Rail Services

Direct Rail Services (DRS) is to retire its iconic Class 37 locomotives, marking the end of an era for these stalwarts of the rail industry. The decision comes as part of DRS’s commitment to the environment, fleet modernisation and adapting to evolving operational needs. Since their...

www.directrailservices.com

If Chiltern were to acquire Mk5a sets to replace its Mk3s, I guess that Chiltern's current 68s could go back to DRS in order that ex-TPE 68s could remain with the Mk5a's.

Does that mean there'll no longer be any DRS 37s, or are there still some in use after the 'buy and lease back' scheme?

 

[Greybeard33]

Does that mean there'll no longer be any DRS 37s, or are there still some in use after the 'buy and lease back' scheme?

The DRS press release says:

The Class 37s currently operated by DRS will be sold through a competitive tendering process, as with the previous locomotives offered for sale, and are –

• 37407
• 37419
• 37422
• 37424
• 37425
• 37716

Gottfried Eymer, NTS Managing Director – Rail, said: “It is the end of an era for the Class 37s at DRS, they have been a firm favourite with staff and enthusiasts alike, but the time is right to focus on more modern and efficient engines such as our excellent Class 68 and 88s.”

Depending on who buys them, I suppose it would be theoretically possible for DRS to lease back some of the 37s, but it certainly does not read as though there is any intention to do that.

 

[12LDA28C]

So there’s no actual evidence that this actually a thing? It’s just word of mouth or rumour?

It's not word of mouth or rumour. Indeed, you could reasonably assume this given the widely-known issue of noise complaints at Marylebone relating to Class 68s, the severely limited number of daily Class 68 arrivals and departures at Marylebone due to these noise issues and the fact that any increase in Class 68 operation is likely to be met with vociferous opposition from local residents and their MPs if no solution to the noise issue is found.

 

[D365]

The DRS press release says:


Depending on who buys them, I suppose it would be theoretically possible for DRS to lease back some of the 37s, but it certainly does not read as though there is any intention to do that.

Wibble time… Europhoenix lease to DRS, who sublease to Chiltern

 

[Nym]

It’s a pity that you aren’t on commission from Beacon Rail in that case!


Here’s your answer…

I wonder how they’re getting on with the certification?

I suspect certification is something that may take some effort.

 

[Neptune]

It's not word of mouth or rumour. Indeed, you could reasonably assume this given the widely-known issue of noise complaints at Marylebone relating to Class 68s, the severely limited number of daily Class 68 arrivals and departures at Marylebone due to these noise issues and the fact that any increase in Class 68 operation is likely to be met with vociferous opposition from local residents and their MPs if no solution to the noise issue is found.

But there’s no visible evidence available so for me it is either word of mouth or rumour.

The noise complaints aren’t sufficient evidence to me that mods are in the offing. Likewise mentioning it regularly without physical evidence means the same.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think we can all be sure of the NEED to reduce the noise that 68s make.

BUT

There seems to be no evidence that any ACTIVITIES are actually being undertaken to address that need.

OR

Is there any evidence of activities and not just evidence of need ?.

 

[12LDA28C]

I think we can all be sure of the NEED to reduce the noise that 68s make.

BUT

There seems to be no evidence that any ACTIVITIES are actually being undertaken to address that need.

OR

Is there any evidence of activities and not just evidence of need ?.

What evidence exactly do you expect to see?

 

[Peter Sarf]

What evidence exactly do you expect to see?

Evidence would be any reports from within DRS or Chiltern on a project so improve the noise level on 68s.

Any sighting of an experimental setup in the field (railway).

Maybe we have to wait for action - Mk5s on Chiltern - fingers crossed.

I say fingers crossed but I do like the sound of the 68s as they are currently .

I don't think the noise of 68s is too load when accelerating as it is gone soon enough. It is the noise while ticking over under ETH load that grinds the locals down as it goes on for more than a passing moment. But now the 68s have drawn attention to themselves I expect the bar will be quite high.

 

[12LDA28C]

Evidence would be any reports from within DRS or Chiltern on a project so improve the noise level on 68s.

I don't believe either would be obliged to provide any reports, especially publically. At least not until any leasing contract is signed, if at all.

Any sighting of an experimental setup in the field (railway).

You'd be lucky to see any external evidence on a locomotive of any internal modifications

 

[Peter Sarf]

I don't believe either would be obliged to provide any reports, especially publically. At least not until any leasing contract is signed, if at all.

I know but that is what some on here are looking for as evidence of action.

You'd be lucky to see any external evidence on a locomotive of any internal modifications

The external evidence would be a different sound. Probably some unusual test runs but maybe just tests restricted to fast tickover in a shed !.

After all it was ever thus. Rumours abound in the absence of facts. We have no right to the facts but will fill the vacuum one way or another. So many different types of rumour will evolve such that one version is bound to come true. That one correct version will be remembered and the source revered. Thus discrediting the need for official reports. But its none of our business. But I am curious and so are many of us.

 

[gingertom]

I know but that is what some on here are looking for as evidence of action.

The external evidence would be a different sound. Probably some unusual test runs but maybe just tests restricted to fast tickover in a shed !.

After all it was ever thus. Rumours abound in the absence of facts. We have no right to the facts but will fill the vacuum one way or another. So many different types of rumour will evolve such that one version is bound to come true. That one correct version will be remembered and the source revered. Thus discrediting the need for official reports. But its none of our business. But I am curious and so are many of us.

One would think there would be fanfares and photo opportunities to be had if improved silencers were to be fitted. It would be some good PR, which is badly needed these days.

 

[JJmoogle]

I assume that'd come if they get something that works, it might not, in which case that wouldn't be good PR if they'd made a big song and dance but hadn't been able to devise a solution

 

[172007]

One would think there would be fanfares and photo opportunities to be had if improved silencers were to be fitted. It would be some good PR, which is badly needed these days.

Big fanfare may mean having to modify the whole 68 fleet which for financial / technical reasons would not be desirable.
Low key may be what is happening behind the scenes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Big fanfare may mean having to modify the whole 68 fleet which for financial / technical reasons would not be desirable.
Low key may be what is happening behind the scenes.

I think if Chiltern do take the Mk5s then they'll make a huge fanfare about new(ish) stock. That'd be the time to go public on other aspects of such a move e.g. improvements to the 68s.

 

[Peter Sarf]

One would think there would be fanfares and photo opportunities to be had if improved silencers were to be fitted. It would be some good PR, which is badly needed these days.

Yes. After the solution is found. In the meantime would not want to admit there is a problem in case they don't find a solution.

 

[12LDA28C]

Yes. After the solution is found. In the meantime would not want to admit there is a problem in case they don't find a solution.

I think everyone is already aware there is a problem, hence the need for a solution.

 

[Russel]

Would switching back to using 67's be a solution?

I don't know the background that lead to the 68s replacing 67s, presumably fuel economy, emissions etc but given the unacceptable noise the 68s generate, could 67s be the least worst option?

 

[JonathanH]

Would switching back to using 67's be a solution?

No. That would be pointless.

 

[Russel]

No. That would be pointless.

Reason being?

Was noise a complaint when the 67s were in use?

 

[Whistler40145]

Reliability issues?

 

[Speed43125]

Was noise a complaint when the 67s were in use?

I believe it was until generators were fitted in the DVTs as they had an extremely loud tickover when supplying ETS.