norbitonflyer
Established Member
It was a short-lived name in the Network South East era - a portmanteau of Harlesden and Queens Park. The shopping centre in Watford was named after it (and not, as some suppose, the other way round)
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London Overground line names announced
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VauxhallandI
Established Member
No I think most people would be happy with useful geographical names. It is you that is creating the polarisation but saying if you don't agree with X you must be Y. A common trait of the extremist left-wing I'm afraid; sometimes a mirror has to be held up this sort of stuff. It's just as bad a the Farage line, equally wrong.This is the best statement on the thread! I agree.
There is such negativity. This board is SO conservative.
I assume you would make the same statement if the lines were called, say, Churchill, Thatcher, Farage & Mosely lines.
What is wrong, objectively, with the names? "WoKeIsM" isn't enough.
2 need explaining to me ( Mildmay & Freedom) but once done so the first seems fair enough and quite nice touch.
Suffragete ( they even got the colours right!) & Windrush shouldn't need any comment beyond the slight silliness of the Windrush line not stopping in Brixton. ( it should also be noted that many on the MV Empire Windrush had served in the British armed forces in World War Two AND all had a right to reside in the UK via the 1948 British Nationality Act )
The Freedom line is odd but hopefully means something to people in that area and I think the Lionesses line is a little bit modern. They have done superbly well recently but if they ( like all sports teams) flop then what?
one person gets it! The level of historical ignorance and confusion on this thread is shocking.
no one has ever called it that have they? Surely such a line goes to Twickenham!
Class800
Established Member
What? The Brexit line. The Thatcher line. The Bread line. The Dole line. The Churchill line. The Rwanda line. etc?
renegademaster
Member
Yes, stop being silly, you know nobody would defend any of those except mabye Churchill
Agree totally, and what's more in time the names will stick, and it will largely be forgotten what their original is. Who remembers which Jubilee the Jubilee Line was named after, or even now associates it with a specific Jubilee as opposed to the name of a Tube Line?
Splitting the lines out is a very good thing for clarity. I'm disappointed there is no Goblin Line, but acknowledging the suffragettes is a fine substitute. Lionness name is a bit of a reach though...
Nice that the names acknowledge local history rather than the pomposity of Elizabeth/Victoria/Jubilee etc.
Nice that the names acknowledge local history rather than the pomposity of Elizabeth/Victoria/Jubilee etc.
R.e. Churchill, lets not forget that he led a wartime coalition.
I'd be quite happy with a Churchill line.
Mikey C
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i.e. they wanted a particular type of line name, and the option of non political geography based lines was never going to be considered, even if a lot of people would have preferred it.
freetoview33
Established Member
You've got to understand first why they were proposed to be renamed, so people who are new to the network for example tourists and people moving into London can understand, I took a friend to London and the Overground confused her totally, so yes rebranding of lines did need to happen.
Then the names that have been chosen I understand why and get them but I don't think they are the most appropriate just would personally have rather had names that semi indicate where they actually were in London. Without actually having to look up the cultural and historical reference. Like Bakerloo it takes 2 seconds to say it serves Baker Street and Waterloo.
Even the Elizabeth line doesn't really work with me, but the majority of people know what it is at least, compared to the Romford to Upminster for instance.
Then the names that have been chosen I understand why and get them but I don't think they are the most appropriate just would personally have rather had names that semi indicate where they actually were in London. Without actually having to look up the cultural and historical reference. Like Bakerloo it takes 2 seconds to say it serves Baker Street and Waterloo.
Even the Elizabeth line doesn't really work with me, but the majority of people know what it is at least, compared to the Romford to Upminster for instance.
renegademaster
Member
Numbers or geographical names wouldnt create a culture war, which both sides will ultimately enjoy. Khan can granstand about all the racists who oppose the change for a few days while GBNEWS and LBC have something to to talk about for the next news cycle. At least it might encourage further transport expansion if each mayor can name a line after their pet cause tit for tat.
Class800
Established Member
I don't mind Churchill really, just an example of a fairly good one to choose
yoyothehobo
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Some absolute snowflakes in here getting upset by names.
Worry less and enjoy life more.
Worry less and enjoy life more.
How is naming it after a national team divisive?
Revilo
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But London and the UK has been formed by many different movements and people of all types. What makes these particular groups or movements - most relatively recent in historic terms - deserving of a line naming and not others? Why not stick to non-exclusive names such as geographical features rather that making it political and unnecessarily divisive?
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I don't understand this - it is only polarising if you allow yourself to be polarised. These are just names. They cant hurt you. They don't damage you as an individual or lower your worth.
I was being deliberaltly fatious to make a point. There seems opt be a lot of points about "politics" yet we seem keen to overlook politics when it reflects our views.
You cant say politics is bad and not say the same when names you like a re suggested. By the same token I wouldn't be pleased if there was a Thatcher line but i am not going to wibble on about it being awful.
But not everyone would be because "politics" - personally i wouldn't mind such a choice but i can see why it wasnt used!
( if you were Indian or Welsh you might disagree strongly with such a choice - regardless of the facts of the matter)
I did not know that - thank you. I still would reject it today mind!
Class800
Established Member
I think we're taking the mick not getting upset
Maybe, but as with the names chosen, sometimes you just have to accept that you're going to annoy someone whatever you go with.
Thanks for posting but I must admit this looks all over the place. The London Overground name barely features other than when it's spoken as it's too small to see in the roundel in many instances and it all looks quite confusing. Looking at just one instance here:
Just glance at the sign below. If you're using colour to navigate the first thing I'm seeing is a clash of orange and line colour on both signs. It's not immediately apparent that both of these are Overground lines, the line identifier at the top of the sign is a double line when it should be solid when on that particular mode (they seem to have got this right on the actual line diagram however)
Overall going down this route in my mind removes the Overground branding almost entirely and these will begin to be seen as tube lines. Except the experience can be very different.
Had they used letters for example a lot of this would be solved. A quick mockup:
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===gricer===
Member
Can someone explain to me how this cost 6 million quid ?
renegademaster
Member
I trust you would be silent if we ended up getting the Thatcher, Major and Churchill lines?
Use letters
Some rules:
Letters do not need to follow each other in the alphabet
Letters should not be O (overground, and confusing), U (underground), T (trams), D (DLR) or E (Elizabeth line).
Letters should have some relation to the line
W - Euston to Watford
S - Stratford to Richmond/Clapham
H - Highbury & I - Clapham, New Cross etc.
L - Liverpool St. - Enfield Town, Cheshunt, Chingford
R - Romford - Upminster
G - GOBLIN
Anyway, the names they've chosen are far better than the current Overground mess. People just like to complain.
renegademaster
Member
Politically connected consultants have got to eat somehow
yoyothehobo
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Pretty much, got no problem with Thatcher or Churchill being chosen. Major would be a weird choice in the same way a Gordon Brown line would be.
For "interesting" read entirely predictable.
The only one which makes any sense is the 'Weaver' Line which has a nod to the historic industry in that area.
It's this kind of nonsense which gives politicians of all stripes a bad name.
The names aren’t awful but they’re not amazing; they’re decent enough. I would suggest they were always going to be just one word, so things like “North London” or “East London” were off the cards.
Adding new colours is going to be a bit of a mess especially how they handle things like rolling stock which no doubt goes between routes and handling the overall brand of the Overground. Not sure that will be easy to handle although the video shown above about “Overground: xxx line” is a decent way to do it.
Also the “Tube” map seems to lump everything not Tube under a title of London Overground in the new format, something a bit confusing for the DLR, trams and the Elizabeth line.
Personally I think numbers might have been easier for something the same mode, but I don’t think there was ever going to be an option that was suitable, including the status quo.
It will do - there’s a lot of rebranding to be done at a fair number of stations, trains etc. Not so how the umbrella brand will be kept though, if at all.
Adding new colours is going to be a bit of a mess especially how they handle things like rolling stock which no doubt goes between routes and handling the overall brand of the Overground. Not sure that will be easy to handle although the video shown above about “Overground: xxx line” is a decent way to do it.
Also the “Tube” map seems to lump everything not Tube under a title of London Overground in the new format, something a bit confusing for the DLR, trams and the Elizabeth line.
Personally I think numbers might have been easier for something the same mode, but I don’t think there was ever going to be an option that was suitable, including the status quo.
It will do - there’s a lot of rebranding to be done at a fair number of stations, trains etc. Not so how the umbrella brand will be kept though, if at all.
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BlueLeanie
Member
I'm a touch confused by a couple of these.
Lioness - Isn't it considered misogynistic to add the "ess" nowadays". When was the last time you referred to your boss as your "manageress". Actresses are all Actors nowadays.
Liberty - This one goes nowhere near the American Embassy?
Windrush, absolutely fine. But shouldn't we also place equal status to other generations who migrated to London. None of the lines are named after the Irish navvies who built much of Britain's railways, or the Scots or Welsh who moved to London to work on the railways. Then there's the Indian, Pakistan & Chinese who make London such a great place to live and work. Not forgetting people of South Asian heritage who are the pillars of the NHS in London.
Weaver line is great and makes absolute sense. Weren't there lots of Thatchers in London putting the roofs on in olden days too though?
Lioness - Isn't it considered misogynistic to add the "ess" nowadays". When was the last time you referred to your boss as your "manageress". Actresses are all Actors nowadays.
Liberty - This one goes nowhere near the American Embassy?
Windrush, absolutely fine. But shouldn't we also place equal status to other generations who migrated to London. None of the lines are named after the Irish navvies who built much of Britain's railways, or the Scots or Welsh who moved to London to work on the railways. Then there's the Indian, Pakistan & Chinese who make London such a great place to live and work. Not forgetting people of South Asian heritage who are the pillars of the NHS in London.
Weaver line is great and makes absolute sense. Weren't there lots of Thatchers in London putting the roofs on in olden days too though?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
How, for a normal passenger? They're all trains. DLR too.
jon81uk
Member
New signage and the staff to change it.
New announcements.
Programming the apps and website to show the changes.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I assume you don't follow womens' football? Because if you're aware of it this makes total sense. The Lions are the mens' team.
renegademaster
Member
One runs every 5 minutes outside a few far flung branches. The others can have frequencies as low as 2ph
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