Class 175 future speculation

[Anonymous10]

175s will never run to Okehampton.

Why does anyone think they would? You know 158s never go there, right?

Unless it's a clearance issue never say never, the discussion was if they moved to gwr where they could have the most impact on releasing stock with minimal crew training.

 

[RPI]

175s will never run to Okehampton.

Why does anyone think they would? You know 158s never go there, right?

Assuming this is sarcastic, plenty of 158's have been there.......

A picture of one of the many times I've worked on one to Okehampton.

 

[REVUpminster]

2 car 158s have been to Okehampton on many occasions, sometimes on both diagrams, last year when I was recording all the stock on the "Devon Metro" and Cornwall locals.

 

[Bletchleyite]

175s will never run to Okehampton.

Why does anyone think they would? You know 158s never go there, right?

The 158 I rode to Oke must have been a mirage, then. They aren't the usual fare but they definitely can!

 

[Snow1964]

A train which is almost without fail a 5 car formation (certainly was the case every day last week), is 1F07, 07.27 from Cardiff.

Although like today, the 2car can be detached at Bristol, and continues to Portsmouth as 3car.

Athough 165s (which were built as stopping / inner suburban units) being regularly used on long distance services is moot point. However if GWR does get 175s it remains to be seen if it tries to split its fleet into local and regional or just mixes them with less than ideal seating configuration being luck of the draw.

 

[RPI]

Although like today, the 2car can be detached at Bristol, and continues to Portsmouth as 3car.

Athough 165s (which were built as stopping / inner suburban units) being regularly used on long distance services is moot point. However if GWR does get 175s it remains to be seen if it tries to split its fleet into local and regional or just mixes them with less than ideal seating configuration being luck of the draw.

I think in the current desperate climate then just having sufficient capacity is the issue to get over the line.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Maybe Angel trains (the owners of TFW’s 158’s) have told TFW they won’t extend the lease again after the end of this year in the hope for them to get a longer term home at GWR ?

Don't Angel also own the 175s though - so presumably they would be even happier to get the 175s on-lease than they would be to shift the 158s from TfW to GWR?

Ah, I always forget the ownership factor... one of the daftest legacies of Major's model of privatisation in my opinion, but that's another discussion entirely.

The whole system is pretty daft (although I think I heard/read somewhere that John Major's preferance was a return to somethine like the 'big 4', with regional companies owning track, train and stock, so perhaps the mess we've ended up with shouldn't be described as being "Major's model"). For example, where's the sense in EMR and LNER both having double-digit fleets of 5-car bi-mode InterCity stock when the former is planned to see Kettering to Sheffield/Nottingham electrified which will leave only limited services (routes with only 1-2 trains per day) where EMR will require the diesel mode on their 810s. It would make far more sense in my view for a single pool of bi-mode units, of a single design and livery, to be shared between what (under the current system) are currently XC's, LNER's and EMR's off-wire InterCity services.

If GWR are allocated the 175 fleet, it will be for 800/HST replacement first and then to release 158’s for Portsmouth-Cardiff, so 175 units would also be operating such services as the Barnstaple and Okehampton.

You really need to go mainly load 5 on the Portsmouth-Cardiff and you haven’t got enough 158 cars to do that entirely so a couple of the workings will have to remain Turbo.

I agree that Cardiff-Portsmouth needs to be at least 5-cars (throughout, no spliting/joining - unless using 158s so the guard can move passengers into the correct portion before the split) but I'm not sure Turbos are the only alternative. Would Cardiff-Portsmouth be 8 diagrams? According to Wikipedia, GWR only have 18 class 158s so, if running them in pairs, would only have 9 sets (not enough to reliably cover 8 diagrams, and many would only be 4-car). However, there are 27 class 175s - pairing eleven of the 3-car units with the 11 eleven 2-car units would leave five 3-car sets to support other routes. Alternatively, are the 80x cleared for Cardiff-Portsmouth to cover a diagram or two allowing more 158s to be made up to 5-car?

 

[TheWalrus]

There's plenty of demand between Okehampton and Exeter without Tavistock thanks, in part, due to Bude and Launceston as well as surrounding villages.

Sorry I wasn’t referring to Okehampton-Exeter I was referring to Plymouth to Gunnislake.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Don't Angel also own the 175s though - so presumably they would be even happier to get the 175s on-lease than they would be to shift the 158s from TfW to GWR?


The whole system is pretty daft (although I think I heard/read somewhere that John Major's preferance was a return to somethine like the 'big 4', with regional companies owning track, train and stock, so perhaps the mess we've ended up with shouldn't be described as being "Major's model"). For example, where's the sense in EMR and LNER both having double-digit fleets of 5-car bi-mode InterCity stock when the former is planned to see Kettering to Sheffield/Nottingham electrified which will leave only limited services (routes with only 1-2 trains per day) where EMR will require the diesel mode on their 810s. It would make far more sense in my view for a single pool of bi-mode units, of a single design and livery, to be shared between what (under the current system) are currently XC's, LNER's and EMR's off-wire InterCity services.



I agree that Cardiff-Portsmouth needs to be at least 5-cars (throughout, no spliting/joining - unless using 158s so the guard can move passengers into the correct portion before the split) but I'm not sure Turbos are the only alternative. Would Cardiff-Portsmouth be 8 diagrams? According to Wikipedia, GWR only have 18 class 158s so, if running them in pairs, would only have 9 sets (not enough to reliably cover 8 diagrams, and many would only be 4-car). However, there are 27 class 175s - pairing eleven of the 3-car units with the 11 eleven 2-car units would leave five 3-car sets to support other routes. Alternatively, are the 80x cleared for Cardiff-Portsmouth to cover a diagram or two allowing more 158s to be made up to 5-car?

It has already been pointed out elsewhere that Portsmouth to Cardiff would remain a mixture of 158 and 16x but additional fleet coming into routes in the South West could cascade additional 158 and 16x vehicles into the Central area based at Bristol.

 

[lh33]

With a 175 now being stored/repaired at Barton-under-Needwood (near Burton-on-Trent), I suppose it's worth considering whether Cross Country could find some use for the units, being an all-diesel TOC?

Possibly Cardiff-Nottingham to free up 170s which could in turn go to EMR, Northern (both to replace Sprinters), or even Chiltern (converted to 168s) or GWR to replace their Mk3s & HSTs respectively?

Honestly sending them to northern would be a great idea

 

[Dan G]

Occasionally a 158 shows up on a Okehampton diagram.

GWR won't be putting 175s on the Okehampton route, unless anyone thinks GWR gaining the 175 fleet would result in the departure of the 150s. Obviously, it wouldn't.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Occasionally a 158 shows up on a Okehampton diagram.

GWR won't be putting 175s on the Okehampton route, unless anyone thinks GWR gaining the 175 fleet would result in the departure of the 150s. Obviously, it wouldn't.

You may wish to reconsider this. Don’t forget there will be an increased requirement for 150s in Cornwall with the enhanced Newquay service, this was always planned to be achieved by reducing the class 150 requirement at Exeter.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I dont know much about 175s,are the doors guard or driver controlled?

 

[FrodshamJnct]

I dont know much about 175s,are the doors guard or driver controlled?

Guard.

 

[craigybagel]

I dont know much about 175s,are the doors guard or driver controlled?

Guard.

Although there are controls for the doors accessible from the drivers seat. The door release buttons are no longer wired up but I'm sure that could be rectified easily enough if GWR wanted to go to Driver open Guard close as with the 165s

 

[Ashley Hill]

Guard.

Thats reassuring,thanks.

Although there are controls for the doors accessible from the drivers seat. The door release buttons are no longer wired up but I'm sure that could be rectified easily enough if GWR wanted to go to Driver open Guard close as with the 165s

Put that screwdriver away and keep the status quo,thanks.

 

[BayPaul]

Occasionally a 158 shows up on a Okehampton diagram.

GWR won't be putting 175s on the Okehampton route, unless anyone thinks GWR gaining the 175 fleet would result in the departure of the 150s. Obviously, it wouldn't.

You may wish to reconsider this. Don’t forget there will be an increased requirement for 150s in Cornwall with the enhanced Newquay service, this was always planned to be achieved by reducing the class 150 requirement at Exeter.

They could presumably also replace a 166 on the Paignton/Exmouth route with the Okehampton + say the Newquay 150s, freeing up the 166 for Bristol area services.

 

[craigybagel]

Thats reassuring,thanks.

Put that screwdriver away and keep the status quo,thanks.

I'm 100% in agreement with you believe me. The question will be, if they really do go to GWR, will they keep the Sprinter or Turbo status quo?

 

[geoffk]

Is everything written above about 175s coming to GWR still speculation/rumour, or is there anything concrete? The rolling stock situation in the south west has been bad this week. Today Exmouth - Paignton has had five if its seven diagrams operated by 2 car 150s. There's one pair of 150s and a 166. One 150 is at Wolverton but Falmouth is all buses as a result of the resignalling work. Any additional stock can't come soon enough!

 

[RPI]

Is everything written above about 175s coming to GWR still speculation/rumour, or is there anything concrete? The rolling stock situation in the south west has been bad this week. Today Exmouth - Paignton has had five if its seven diagrams operated by 2 car 150s. There's one pair of 150s and a 166. One 150 is at Wolverton but Falmouth is all buses as a result of the resignalling work. Any additional stock can't come soon enough!

There's also a 165 on the circuit and one of the two car 150's was strengthened for the 13:24 Exmouth-Paignton at St Davids, but yes, it's pretty dire. One of the two car 150's (239 I think) was running around with one engine reverting to idle when driving from one end!

 

[irish_rail]

Is everything written above about 175s coming to GWR still speculation/rumour, or is there anything concrete? The rolling stock situation in the south west has been bad this week. Today Exmouth - Paignton has had five if its seven diagrams operated by 2 car 150s. There's one pair of 150s and a 166. One 150 is at Wolverton but Falmouth is all buses as a result of the resignalling work. Any additional stock can't come soon enough!

Yet a 150 tends to sit spare all day at Plymouth most of the time.

 

[Xavi]

GWR won't be putting 175s on the Okehampton route

If DfT approves the GWR application, which is reported elsewhere to have been submitted, 175s will be on Okehampton and Barnstaple.

 

[Ashley Hill]

If this happens are GWR getting 2 or 3 car sets?

 

[RPI]

If this happens are GWR getting 2 or 3 car sets?

Logic (stop laughing at the back..... Logic.... Modern railway...) would say the whole fleet of them if a reasonable deal can be done.

 

[Anonymous10]

If DfT approves the GWR application, which is reported elsewhere to have been submitted, 175s will be on Okehampton and Barnstaple.

I would also anticipate them on the Plymouth to Penzance route, if not further if it is indeed the case to release the 158s and 800s.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Logic (stop laughing at the back..... Logic.... Modern railway...) would say the whole fleet of them if a reasonable deal can be done.

I say a little prayer every day in the hope that logic will shine through.

 

[anthony263]

If this happens are GWR getting 2 or 3 car sets?

Gwr were supposed to be getting the full fleet.

Penzance to Plymouth/Exeter
Exeter to Okehampton and Barnstaple were planned to be run with 175s.

Was told 3 carriage 175s on Barnstaple services and 2 carriage units on.the Okehampton service.

3 and 4 carriage 175s elsewhere to replace castle HSTs and free up 158/165's for Cardiff to Portsmouth hbr services etc with displaced 150/2's being used on other routes around Devon and Cornwall

 

[Anonymous10]

Gwr were supposed to be getting the full fleet.

Penzance to Plymouth/Exeter
Exeter to Okehampton and Barnstaple were planned to be run with 175s.

Was told 3 carriage 175s on Barnstaple services and 2 carriage units on.the Okehampton service.

3 and 4 carriage 175s elsewhere to replace castle HSTs and free up 158/165's for Cardiff to Portsmouth hbr services etc with displaced 150/2's being used on other routes around Devon and Cornwall

I would think they could aim for 4 and 5 on the mainline buy then again the fleet isn't massive

 

[Ashley Hill]

Having a non-standard coupling for the area i wouldnt send them too far away from where they could be easily rescued.

 

[RPI]

Gwr were supposed to be getting the full fleet.

Penzance to Plymouth/Exeter
Exeter to Okehampton and Barnstaple were planned to be run with 175s.

Was told 3 carriage 175s on Barnstaple services and 2 carriage units on.the Okehampton service.

3 and 4 carriage 175s elsewhere to replace castle HSTs and free up 158/165's for Cardiff to Portsmouth hbr services etc with displaced 150/2's being used on other routes around Devon and Cornwall

That does seem the most sensible option, let's face it, the 175's aren't bad units in the grand scheme of things, would be an improvement on the Okehampton line and certainly not being a downgrade for the Barnstaple.