NYMR news and updates.

[robert thomas]

I am sorry but this is nothing to do with the fare. It is very simple - when the train is full you stop issuing tickets! Is that really so difficult? Passengers booking in advance have to specify what train they intend travelling out on, so you should know how many seats are left over for "on the day" bookings. From my reading of the website, those with an annual season are still required to get a ticket for that day from the booking office. So once you have reached the train's capacity, you just stop issuing tickets. For there to be standing passengers on the outward journey is completely inexcusable.

If I turn up on spec at a restaurant without a booking, it is perfectly possible that they will say that they are fully booked. However, if I book a table in advance, I don't expect to find that they have given it away to someone who just turned up. If I have not only booked but PAID in advance for a place on the train, I don't expect to find that there are no seats left and I am having to stand. That is totally unacceptable.

If there is a danger of the Whitby services being withdrawn because of the bad reviews, as suggested by a previous poster, then surely they should be doing something to address the cause of those reviews. I am afraid that blaming the passengers for being unreasonable is symptomatic of the NYMR's attitude to customer service.

I suspect that most people are happy to staand if the alternative is not being able to travel.Just like the "real railway".

 

[31160]

I suspect that most people are happy to staand if the alternative is not being able to travel.Just like the "real railway".

Happy?? Really if you have to stand on the "real" in your words you do so because you have to get to where the train goes, that is definitely not true of ANY preserved railway because you travel for the nice ride, happy no way

 

[robert thomas]

Happy?? Really if you have to stand on the "real" in your words you do so because you have to get to where the train goes, that is definitely not true of ANY preserved railway because you travel for the nice ride, happy no way

each to his own

 

[SteveM70]

I suspect that most people are happy to staand if the alternative is not being able to travel.Just like the "real railway".

Possibly, but I'm sure it would have a significant impact on their likelihood to return, and also to give a negative online review.

 

[SeanG]

37418 has been confirmed as a replacement for the diesel gala

 

[DarloRich]

37418

the Loram liveried loco?

 

[SeanG]

Yes that's right

 

[Belperpete]

I suspect that most people are happy to staand if the alternative is not being able to travel.Just like the "real railway".

Seriously? If I had paid a hundred quid in advance for me and my family to travel, no way would I be happy to find that we were expected to stand. Or even if we did get a seat, to find that there was someone's bum blocking the view out the opposite window. If the alternative was not to travel, I might perhaps grudgingly accept it, but no way would I be at all happy about it. And no way would I return for the same again.

 

[Falcon1200]

The only way to guarantee a seat for every passenger is; just as on the big railway; Compulsory reservation for every journey; No or limited flexibility to change plans (if for example it starts raining in Whitby or little Johnny feels sick); and controlled access to the platform/train to prevent non-reserved passengers boarding. Having said that, seat reservations can work if staff are present, willing and able to eject anyone occupying someone else's reserved place.

 

[Belperpete]

The only way to guarantee a seat for every passenger is; just as on the big railway; Compulsory reservation for every journey; No or limited flexibility to change plans (if for example it starts raining in Whitby or little Johnny feels sick); and controlled access to the platform/train to prevent non-reserved passengers boarding. Having said that, seat reservations can work if staff are present, willing and able to eject anyone occupying someone else's reserved place.

Why do people keep going on about reservations? You don't need reservations to avoid standing on the outward journeys - all you need to do is to stop issuing tickets once you have reached the train's capacity. There really is no excuse for passengers to be regularly standing on the outward journey.

Agreed that it is harder to manage for the return journey, but the railway should by now have some idea of what percentage of outward passengers are likely to return on a later train, given the weather that day, and reduce it's capacity accordingly. Okay, you may occasionally get it wrong, and at least the railway does give a warning that the last train back from Whitby may be crowded. However, if there are regularly standing passengers on the return journey, then either they are not very good at this or are not bothered.

And the impression I get is that is that they aren't bothered.

 

[SteveM70]

Why do people keep going on about reservations? You don't need reservations to avoid standing on the outward journeys - all you need to do is to stop issuing tickets once you have reached the train's capacity. There really is no excuse for passengers to be regularly standing on the outward journey

How can they even do that without a reservation system as the tickets aren’t train specific

 

[Trestrol]

This of course comes down to reading the Conditions of Carriage for the NYMR. As with most railway companies buying a ticket entitles you to carriage NOT a seat. These are posted at all stations and I assume is flagged when you book online. How many people read the small print? Unless it's a specific service that's ticket only. Why do all the national rail companies push you to book a seat. If you want turn up and go you have to expect you may not get a seat.

 

[30907]

How can they even do that without a reservation system as the tickets aren’t train specific

If you book online you are asked to select the outward train.

 

[Iskra]

If you book online you are asked to select the outward train.

You aren’t tied to travel on that service though so it’s meaningless.

Why do people keep going on about reservations? You don't need reservations to avoid standing on the outward journeys - all you need to do is to stop issuing tickets once you have reached the train's capacity. There really is no excuse for passengers to be regularly standing on the outward journey.

Agreed that it is harder to manage for the return journey, but the railway should by now have some idea of what percentage of outward passengers are likely to return on a later train, given the weather that day, and reduce it's capacity accordingly. Okay, you may occasionally get it wrong, and at least the railway does give a warning that the last train back from Whitby may be crowded. However, if there are regularly standing passengers on the return journey, then either they are not very good at this or are not bothered.

And the impression I get is that is that they aren't bothered.

So you’re simultaneously comfortable with the NYMR occasionally getting it wrong, while complaining about the NYMR occasionally getting caught out?

 

[Belperpete]

You aren’t tied to travel on that service though so it’s meaningless.


So you’re simultaneously comfortable with the NYMR occasionally getting it wrong, while complaining about the NYMR occasionally getting caught out?

Most passengers who have booked in advance to travel on a particular service will surely travel on that service. And if I read the website correctly, you are still required to obtain a ticket from the booking office when you turn up, so if someone does turn up after their booked train has departed then you should be able to include them in the numbers for the next train.

You really do seem to be trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. It really shouldn't be that difficult to manage capacity - if you can be bothered to try. And as the NYMR specifically says on its website that booking in advance is to allow them to manage capacity, that is exactly what they should be doing.

There is a big difference between occasionally getting caught out, and regularly getting it wrong. Other posters have commented that is common to have standing passengers on both outward and return services in high summer. As far as I am concerned, that is unacceptable. The fact that it seems to be an accepted thing points to the railway not really caring about its pasengers. As do comments that it is the passengers who are responsible for overloading the trains, which just point to a total dereliction of care by the railway.

 

[DarloRich]

As far as I am concerned, that is unacceptable.

ok - taking your point - what should be done? Turn money away? The Whitby section is now the main draw for most normals I suspect

You don't want to introduce booked seats which would be my solution if forced although frankly I wouldn't bother even doing that unless i had to. What is yours beyond putting the shutters up. I suspect the review would be a sight worse if people travelled long distances and were turned away.

I don't think they can add any more carriages or introduce anymore services on the Esk Valley section due to signalling infrastructre and timetable clashes.

 

[Swimbar]

You really do seem to be trying to make a mountain out of a molehill.

I think you are the person making a mountain out of a molehill. A couple of bad reviews, among loads of positive ones, and everything is wrong with the NYMR. I visit regularly and the service received and the attitude of the staff is excellent.

 

[DarloRich]

Other posters have commented that is common to have standing passengers on both outward and return services in high summer.

It is common but also common to have seats available. What is often meant is: i don't want to share that compartment

I have been on a few trains that are rammed packed but also some that were busy but had seats IF I was prepared to share or split my party over 2 tables over the aisle

 

[Iskra]

It is common but also common to have seats available. What is often meant is: i don't want to share that compartment

Putting the prices up during school holidays would be the easiest and most likely solution.

Still, it’s a non problem. We’ve already identified that most reviews are positive, despite the trains being popular, so I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the status quo.

 

[Falcon1200]

all you need to do is to stop issuing tickets once you have reached the train's capacity. There really is no excuse for passengers to be regularly standing on the outward journey.

Issuing tickets valid only for a specific train is pretty much the same as compulsory reservation, the difference being that no particular seat(s) are allocated (which could lead to family groups being split). In fact it could be even more restrictive, if passengers are only allowed to use one train and do not have the choice to change plans with the proviso that they would lose their reserved seats.

 

[Belperpete]

I think you are the person making a mountain out of a molehill. A couple of bad reviews, among loads of positive ones, and everything is wrong with the NYMR. I visit regularly and the service received and the attitude of the staff is excellent.

Have you looked at the reviews on TripAdvisor? Overbooked and overpriced! Chaotic. Not enough seats. And on it goes.

It is common but also common to have seats available.

Just because some trains have seats available does not excuse those where passengers have to stand.

Lets be clear about this. It is perfectly within the powers of the NYMR to control the capacity of their trains, to ensure that their passengers have a comfortable and enjoyable journey. They choose not to. Which to my mind speaks volumes about their attitude to their passengers.

ok - taking your point - what should be done? Turn money away? The Whitby section is now the main draw for most normals I suspect

You don't want to introduce booked seats which would be my solution if forced although frankly I wouldn't bother even doing that unless i had to. What is yours beyond putting the shutters up. I suspect the review would be a sight worse if people travelled long distances and were turned away.

It is not me that is averse to reservations - I have just suggested a few alternatives.

As to turning money away. I think that you have hit the nail on the head there. It would appear that the NYMR would rather keep selling tickets and ramming people on the train than ensure that their passengers have a comfortable and enjoyable journey.

 

[Swimbar]

Have you looked at the reviews on TripAdvisor? Overbooked and overpriced! Chaotic. Not enough seats. And on it goes.

Yes I have. 'Boring old British rail carriages'. 'The actual journey apart from the stations was an absolute bore. The only things visible were trees with more trees an odd field and odd farm'.
Clearly some people decide to visit the North Yorkshire Moors and the Railway for all the wrong reasons and then take to TripAdvisor to blame other people for their mistakes. Keyboard Warriors!
There will be issues when schools are on holiday. That's life and people need to accept that. Happens everywhere.
If you analyse TripAdvisor the Heritage Railways collectively do a reasonable job: North Yorkshire Moors Railway 4.5 out of 4882 reviews, Great Central Railway 4.5 out of 1676 reviews, East Lancashire Railway 4.5 out of 2200 reviews and Seven Valley Railway 4.5 out of 3480 reviews.

 

[Belperpete]

Review 1: 1* overbooked and overpriced. Stood for nearly ,2 hours.
Review 2: 5* but noted some had to stand which was unacceptable
Review 3: 2* chaotic. Scramble for seats. Standing for nearly 2 hours
Review 4: 2* would not recommend
Review 5: 3* lucky fast tracked
Review 6: 1* not enough seats

That is some of the worst batch of reviews that I have read in a long time. Certainly doing nothing to encourage me to visit. And remember that, being British, for every bad review, there are likely another dozen who are quietly festering about their experience.

As for brushing off all these reviews as being written by key board warriors, and that people should accept being treated like **** because it is a bank holiday, God I truly hope that you are nothing to do with the NYMR as that is truly appalling attitude to display about paying customers.

People who have booked in advance have the right to expect a seat, bank holiday or not.

 

[Swimbar]

People who have booked in advance have the right to expect a seat, bank holiday or not.

Will tell LNER and Cross Country that when I next travel on a Bank Holiday at 3 times the price and stand all the way! No point in continuing this conversation.

 

[Falcon1200]

And remember that, being British, for every bad review, there are likely another dozen who are quietly festering about their experience.

But also all those who had a good experience but do not post about it, anywhere; Those dissatisfied are far more likely to vent their anger.

that people should accept being treated like **** because it is a bank holiday

Presumably the same people complaining about the NYMR being busy on a Bank Holiday also complained about the gridlocked roads, the full car parks and the overcrowded restaurants? That is what happens when the multitudes simultaneously descend on tourist destinations!

 

[NER1621]

That is some of the worst batch of reviews that I have read in a long time. Certainly doing nothing to encourage me to visit.

Ah. So your rants are based purely on TripAdvisor reviews and, I suspect, some kind of personal animus against the NYMR for some reason? (I would normally say “apologies if I’ve got that wrong” but your tone doesn’t invite reciprocal politeness.)

As others have said, you come up with no solutions, just that the NYMR should stop selling tickets when they “guess” a train is full. Firstly, with a day rover people might change their minds about which train to catch, thus leaving empty spaces that others could have filled. Secondly, and I have seen this many times with my own eyes, leisure travellers, especially car-orientated family groups who only use heritage railways (or indeed any railway) at peak family holiday times, will now often refuse to share a compartment or even a table/seating bay in an open carriage, preferring to stand (and then complain about it?). Thirdly, as has again already been mentioned, people in its southern catchment area are now using the NYMR as a way of having a day out in Whitby without having to find and pay for parking there, by parking at Pickering and taking the train (so, in fact, the NYMR is providing a genuine public transport service!) Given the gaps in the Whitby service, do you tell people turning up at Pickering on a busy school holiday day that they can’t join the first train to Whitby because the NYMR won’t let them stand, and they have to wait two hours - or do you treat them like adults capable of making choices (always a mistake with some elements of the British public) and tell them the train is very busy but if they still want to take the chance by standing they can?

Fourthly and finally, the British public constantly complain about crowded venues, lack of car parking, high fares and traffic jams during peak holiday times, all of which are always “other peoples’ faults” and never theirs for choosing to add themselves to the congestion.

What should the NYMR do? Well, the obvious answer is to revert to the system they used during Covid and just after: sell tickets only for specific outward and return trains, dictating exactly how long travellers can stay at their chosen destination with no flexibility. Which I remember went down like a bucket of cold vomit with the vociferous “enthusiast” community as showing that the NYMR had finally revealed itself as a pure commercial organisation simply selling train rides like a fairground attraction, and was no longer a “proper railway” in the great tradition of “the movement”. They just can’t win can they?

Richard Taylor
(Full disclosure: NYMR Life Member, but not otherwise active with the railway)

 

[Trestrol]

Ah. So your rants are based purely on TripAdvisor reviews and, I suspect, some kind of personal animus against the NYMR for some reason? (I would normally say “apologies if I’ve got that wrong” but your tone doesn’t invite reciprocal politeness.)

As others have said, you come up with no solutions, just that the NYMR should stop selling tickets when they “guess” a train is full. Firstly, with a day rover people might change their minds about which train to catch, thus leaving empty spaces that others could have filled. Secondly, and I have seen this many times with my own eyes, leisure travellers, especially car-orientated family groups who only use heritage railways (or indeed any railway) at peak family holiday times, will now often refuse to share a compartment or even a table/seating bay in an open carriage, preferring to stand (and then complain about it?). Thirdly, as has again already been mentioned, people in its southern catchment area are now using the NYMR as a way of having a day out in Whitby without having to find and pay for parking there, by parking at Pickering and taking the train (so, in fact, the NYMR is providing a genuine public transport service!) Given the gaps in the Whitby service, do you tell people turning up at Pickering on a busy school holiday day that they can’t join the first train to Whitby because the NYMR won’t let them stand, and they have to wait two hours - or do you treat them like adults capable of making choices (always a mistake with some elements of the British public) and tell them the train is very busy but if they still want to take the chance by standing they can?

Fourthly and finally, the British public constantly complain about crowded venues, lack of car parking, high fares and traffic jams during peak holiday times, all of which are always “other peoples’ faults” and never theirs for choosing to add themselves to the congestion.

What should the NYMR do? Well, the obvious answer is to revert to the system they used during Covid and just after: sell tickets only for specific outward and return trains, dictating exactly how long travellers can stay at their chosen destination with no flexibility. Which I remember went down like a bucket of cold vomit with the vociferous “enthusiast” community as showing that the NYMR had finally revealed itself as a pure commercial organisation simply selling train rides like a fairground attraction, and was no longer a “proper railway” in the great tradition of “the movement”. They just can’t win can they?

Richard Taylor
(Full disclosure: NYMR Life Member, but not otherwise active with the railway)

Perfectly put. Use TripAdvisor as a guide but take it with a pinch of salt. I have seen posts on TripAdvisor complaining that Beamish museum is too big or there was very little to see and they did it in half a day. People will complain about anything the food is too expensive, well your captive audience what do you expect, take your own instead. Capacity on the railways is a problem all over, not just the NYMR but if you have turn up and go this is what happens. Reserved seats during and after COVID was slated by the general public so they reverted to normal. First and last trains to/from a popular destination will ALWAYS be crowded. As the public want the most amount of time at that destination. Commuter trains on the national network are the same, nobody wants to get the train that gets them to work in ample time, they all want the one that gets them there just in time. Then complain that the train is crowded because everyone else has the same thought as them. That's human nature.

 

[robert thomas]

Ah. So your rants are based purely on TripAdvisor reviews and, I suspect, some kind of personal animus against the NYMR for some reason? (I would normally say “apologies if I’ve got that wrong” but your tone doesn’t invite reciprocal politeness.)

As others have said, you come up with no solutions, just that the NYMR should stop selling tickets when they “guess” a train is full. Firstly, with a day rover people might change their minds about which train to catch, thus leaving empty spaces that others could have filled. Secondly, and I have seen this many times with my own eyes, leisure travellers, especially car-orientated family groups who only use heritage railways (or indeed any railway) at peak family holiday times, will now often refuse to share a compartment or even a table/seating bay in an open carriage, preferring to stand (and then complain about it?). Thirdly, as has again already been mentioned, people in its southern catchment area are now using the NYMR as a way of having a day out in Whitby without having to find and pay for parking there, by parking at Pickering and taking the train (so, in fact, the NYMR is providing a genuine public transport service!) Given the gaps in the Whitby service, do you tell people turning up at Pickering on a busy school holiday day that they can’t join the first train to Whitby because the NYMR won’t let them stand, and they have to wait two hours - or do you treat them like adults capable of making choices (always a mistake with some elements of the British public) and tell them the train is very busy but if they still want to take the chance by standing they can?

Fourthly and finally, the British public constantly complain about crowded venues, lack of car parking, high fares and traffic jams during peak holiday times, all of which are always “other peoples’ faults” and never theirs for choosing to add themselves to the congestion.

What should the NYMR do? Well, the obvious answer is to revert to the system they used during Covid and just after: sell tickets only for specific outward and return trains, dictating exactly how long travellers can stay at their chosen destination with no flexibility. Which I remember went down like a bucket of cold vomit with the vociferous “enthusiast” community as showing that the NYMR had finally revealed itself as a pure commercial organisation simply selling train rides like a fairground attraction, and was no longer a “proper railway” in the great tradition of “the movement”. They just can’t win can they?

Richard Taylor
(Full disclosure: NYMR Life Member, but not otherwise active with the railway)

At last some common sense

 

[David Burrows]

I think it is a case of the usual 'I and my family want to go out to somewhere where there are likely to be a lot of people, but oh dear, other people want to go at the same time (I hadn't thought of that) and the trains, buses, car parks, shops, cafes and whatever are full - it's not fair, I want to sulk. I want to spend some money for my day out, but not much. All these nasty people trying to do the same thing as me. Rant rant - better put a winge on Tripadvisor'.

 

[47434]

Ah. So your rants are based purely on TripAdvisor reviews and, I suspect, some kind of personal animus against the NYMR for some reason? (I would normally say “apologies if I’ve got that wrong” but your tone doesn’t invite reciprocal politeness.)

As others have said, you come up with no solutions, just that the NYMR should stop selling tickets when they “guess” a train is full. Firstly, with a day rover people might change their minds about which train to catch, thus leaving empty spaces that others could have filled. Secondly, and I have seen this many times with my own eyes, leisure travellers, especially car-orientated family groups who only use heritage railways (or indeed any railway) at peak family holiday times, will now often refuse to share a compartment or even a table/seating bay in an open carriage, preferring to stand (and then complain about it?). Thirdly, as has again already been mentioned, people in its southern catchment area are now using the NYMR as a way of having a day out in Whitby without having to find and pay for parking there, by parking at Pickering and taking the train (so, in fact, the NYMR is providing a genuine public transport service!) Given the gaps in the Whitby service, do you tell people turning up at Pickering on a busy school holiday day that they can’t join the first train to Whitby because the NYMR won’t let them stand, and they have to wait two hours - or do you treat them like adults capable of making choices (always a mistake with some elements of the British public) and tell them the train is very busy but if they still want to take the chance by standing they can?

Fourthly and finally, the British public constantly complain about crowded venues, lack of car parking, high fares and traffic jams during peak holiday times, all of which are always “other peoples’ faults” and never theirs for choosing to add themselves to the congestion.

What should the NYMR do? Well, the obvious answer is to revert to the system they used during Covid and just after: sell tickets only for specific outward and return trains, dictating exactly how long travellers can stay at their chosen destination with no flexibility. Which I remember went down like a bucket of cold vomit with the vociferous “enthusiast” community as showing that the NYMR had finally revealed itself as a pure commercial organisation simply selling train rides like a fairground attraction, and was no longer a “proper railway” in the great tradition of “the movement”. They just can’t win can they?

Richard Taylor
(Full disclosure: NYMR Life Member, but not otherwise active with the railway)

Well said. The notion of being able to perfectly allocate trains on a heritage railway when arrivals are largely dictated by the weather is crackers. No different on the big railway. Whilst I agree it isn't ideal standing for 2 hours, people also need to use their common sense and ask the selfish so and so's who have their bags on seats to move them.