First ETCS train operates on the East Coast Mainline

[Ediswan]

It isn't going to be switched on all at once. It will start with (south of) WGC to Hitchin, then King's Cross to WGC, then Hitchin to Biggleswade - and on from there.

Any plan for the Hertford Loop, or is that staying as a test track for now ?

 

[Vexed]

Maybe now would be a good time to share my website which I've been working on recently. It includes storing historical records of berth data, which can then be used to replay signalling maps.

It looks like the unit kept the 5Q98 headcode and went Welwyn - Biggleswade - Welwyn (my map doesn't currently extend to Biggleswade but I would assume this is where it turned round) and then did a few goes from the south side doing Potters Bar - Woolmer Green. Maybe there were some issues with the transition on the south side. Not sure what the *EX* berths mean near Stevenage but doesn't seem to be any signs of a possession.

You can view the rewind signalling map here:

Maps - Vail Data

vaildata.uk

Either use the skip forward buttons or click play and then change the playback speed to something like 100.

 

[snowball]

The ROC plan in its original form no longer exists. There’s multiple other boxes that are being retained as the ROCs aren’t big enough and resignalling to them is too expensive.

You would have thought they would have at least got the size of the buildings right!

Though in so far as the ROC programme has been curtailed for other reasons, it's a benefit that they were built too small, as it would have been a waste of money to make them bigger.

As a complete outsider and ignoramus, with only gut instincts to go on, I always felt that the signalling centres built in the 1970s had areas of coverage that were "about the right size" and that it was a mistake to seek much further enlargement or centralisation.

 

[MarkyT]

You would have thought they would have at least got the size of the buildings right!

Though in so far as the ROC programme has been curtailed for other reasons, it's a benefit that they were built too small, as it would have been a waste of money to make them bigger.

As a complete outsider and ignoramus, with only gut instincts to go on, I always felt that the signalling centres built in the 1970s had areas of coverage that were "about the right size" and that it was a mistake to seek much further enlargement or centralisation.

Still some consolidation opportunity to put remaining mechanical areas and smaller panels into larger facilities. IMO it was very sensible to place the latest Cornwall workstation at Exeter rather than Didcot. I believe TVSC has actually run out of space now or very nearly, so an extension or additional building would have been required anyway. There's only so much economy of scale in making these centres ever larger. I think Exeter should remain the main control centre for the south west peninsula, with additional workstations gradually taking over the areas currently on the panel, making space to migrate Plymouth and other parts of Cornwall in the future. Maybe also the western end of the LSWR to Yeovil as maintenance activity and diversions would be easier to resource and coordinate from that end. Note this is all conditional on the 1980s building being in good enough condition to serve this long-term function.

Maybe now would be a good time to share my website which I've been working on recently. It includes storing historical records of berth data, which can then be used to replay signalling maps.

It looks like the unit kept the 5Q98 headcode and went Welwyn - Biggleswade - Welwyn (my map doesn't currently extend to Biggleswade but I would assume this is where it turned round) and then did a few goes from the south side doing Potters Bar - Woolmer Green. Maybe there were some issues with the transition on the south side. Not sure what the *EX* berths mean near Stevenage but doesn't seem to be any signs of a possession.

You can view the rewind signalling map here:

Maps - Vail Data

vaildata.uk

Either use the skip forward buttons or click play and then change the playback speed to something like 100.

That's great!

 

[rdlover777]

Does this mean we're a step closer to 125mph+ speeds on the ECML?

 

[snowball]

Does this mean we're a step closer to 125mph+ speeds on the ECML?

Only in the sense that it's one step towards addressing one of the preconditions.

There are still, for example, a lot of level crossings on some sections.

 

[Fincra5]

Could this mean 387101 might be heading back to Great Northern to join in the trial of ETCS?

387101's return is dependent on the train being ready...

 

[jon0844]

Maybe now would be a good time to share my website which I've been working on recently. It includes storing historical records of berth data, which can then be used to replay signalling maps.

It looks like the unit kept the 5Q98 headcode and went Welwyn - Biggleswade - Welwyn (my map doesn't currently extend to Biggleswade but I would assume this is where it turned round) and then did a few goes from the south side doing Potters Bar - Woolmer Green. Maybe there were some issues with the transition on the south side. Not sure what the *EX* berths mean near Stevenage but doesn't seem to be any signs of a possession.

You can view the rewind signalling map here:

Maps - Vail Data

vaildata.uk

Either use the skip forward buttons or click play and then change the playback speed to something like 100.

It ran from platform 3 north, then back in to 1, and then did some runs on the up and down fast before finishing on platform 1 and back to Hornsey.

 

[plugwash]

You would have thought they would have at least got the size of the buildings right!

I can imagine it's easy to

1. Be over-optimistic on the workload a signaller can manage.
2. Be over-optimistic on how much technology can reduce signaller workload.
3. Fail to take account of additional signaller workload as a result of traffic growth.

 

[Taunton]

It’s a bit more than a baby step! First use of new signalling on a new section of line is *the* most important step.

One would think that "use" meant for the purpose the railway was built for, namely the transport of passengers. This appears to be just a test train, no passengers, run overnight with all the actual passenger services cleared off.

Bit reminiscent of the huge PR hoopla about the "completion" of the widened viaduct at Borough Market for Thameslink, with the announcements completely concealing that no tracks had been laid on it, and were not planned to be so until some years later.

 

[zwk500]

One would think that "use" meant for the purpose the railway was built for, namely the transport of passengers. This appears to be just a test train, no passengers, run overnight with all the actual passenger services cleared off.

The 'use' of a signalling system is to control trains, which is what this test has done.

And the way the regulations work at the moment, you've got to prove it's working properly before passengers are allowed on.

 

[ricoblade]

Only in the sense that it's one step towards addressing one of the preconditions.

There are still, for example, a lot of level crossings on some sections.

Bliney - It's been 10 years since the ECML level crossing consulation and I don't think any progress has been made.

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/have-your-say-east-coast-main-line-level-crossings

Thursday 12 Jun 2014

Have your say: East Coast Main Line level crossings
Region & Route:
People who live near the south end of the East Coast Main Line (ECML) are being encouraged to come and find out more about Network Rail’s plans for level crossings in their area.

The company is carrying out an extensive consultation to help inform a study which will look at potentially closing or diverting crossings on the ECML. Closing crossings along the route will improve safety and connectivity within local communities.

The exhibitions will give details of the options being considered for the level crossings on the ECML south of Doncaster.

Phil Verster, Route Managing Director, said: “These exhibitions events give local people a chance to tell us how our options for closing level crossings may affect them or their community.

“We are only at the proposal stage. This means this is a great opportunity to have your say on our plans. You can also find out why closing level crossings is important to us all. I encourage as many people as possible to get involved so that we can reach the best possible option for each crossing."

The current feasibility studies cover level crossings on the East Coast Main Line from London to Doncaster. Crossings north of Doncaster, such as Arksey, are not included.

The events which take place on a weekday run from 2 until 8pm, and those on Saturdays run from 10am until 4pm.

People who come along will be able to speak to Network Rail teams and see plans.

Details of the events and further high level information about the consultation can be found on the dedicated webpage for the level crossing consultation.

Specific details on individual level crossings will start to become available on the website over the coming weeks. A list of crossing dates is available via the link below.

 

[najaB]

One would think that "use" meant for the purpose the railway was built for, namely the transport of passengers.

Railways are built for the passage of trains - be they carrying passengers, freight or otherwise.

 

[snowball]

Further discussion of ETCS, including technical discussion of the logistics of the transition, is going on in this thread in the Speculation section:

Which lines should be next for ETCS ?

As the title says: Which lines should be next for ECTS ?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[68000]

The 'use' of a signalling system is to control trains, which is what this test has done.

And the way the regulations work at the moment, you've got to prove it's working properly before passengers are allowed on.

Which, of course, is very wise

 

[greyman42]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, I did look but didn't see a thread.

First digitally signalled train runs on East Coast Main Line

On Sunday, 2 June Great Northern operated a Class 717 electric multiple unit using European Train Control System (ETCS).

www.railadvent.co.uk

Good to see that the project is coming along. Funnily enough, the apparent lack of progress came up as a topic of discussion with @NorthOxonian and @bravesirrobin on Sunday when we saw the Network Rail liveried Class 313 at the East Fife Heritage Railway yard.

So exactly what form of information does the driver get on his screen?

 

[najaB]

So exactly what form of information does the driver get on his screen?

I believe that the current implementation will show any current speed restriction and the aspect of the next signal, but I'm open to correction.

 

[TurboMan]

So exactly what form of information does the driver get on his screen?

Lots of stuff, including:
A speedo indicating current speed with a circular speed gauge around the perimeter which indicates ceiling speeds (current maximum), target speeds (reduction in maximum speed ahead), and brake curves.
Various icons to indicate ETCS level and mode, and certain track features such as neutral sections.
A planning area that shows increases/decreases in speed ahead, along with the end of authority (EoA).
A distance-to-target indicator showing the distance to the next decrease in speed, EoA etc.
A text message area showing messages relevant to ETCS, e.g., 'Entering FS'

Example DMI when in Level 2.

 

[greyman42]

Lots of stuff, including:
A speedo indicating current speed with a circular speed gauge around the perimeter which indicates ceiling speeds (current maximum), target speeds (reduction in maximum speed ahead), and brake curves.
Various icons to indicate ETCS level and mode, and certain track features such as neutral sections.
A planning area that shows increases/decreases in speed ahead, along with the end of authority (EoA).
A distance-to-target indicator showing the distance to the next decrease in speed, EoA etc.
A text message area showing messages relevant to ETCS, e.g., 'Entering FS'

Example DMI when in Level 2.View attachment 159691

Does an actual signal aspect (red, yellow, green) come up on the screen?

 

[takno]

Does an actual signal aspect (red, yellow, green) come up on the screen?

As I understand it there isn't a signal aspect applicable to a train being driven under ETCS, just a maximum acceptable speed based on the situation ahead.

Since the area is overlaid with conventional signalling there would be a signal aspect, but a driver driving under ETCS would be ignoring the signals and following instructions from that.

 

[snowball]

The movement authority is the nearest equivalent to a signal. You're allowed to move a certain distance from where you are now - that's like having a red signal that distance ahead. But there's a maximum speed as well.

 

[Belperpete]

In some implementations of ETCS, the signals are switched to show a special ETCS aspect (often blue) to avoid confusing drivers by the conventional aspects. For example, the ETCS may allow a train to proceed when the conventional signalling wouldn't. It could be confusing for the driver to get a red aspect in such a situation. I understand that the Thameslink signalling works like this.

 

[najaB]

As I understand it there isn't a signal aspect applicable to a train being driven under ETCS, just a maximum acceptable speed based on the situation ahead.

I always thought that Level 1 repeats the signal aspects. I guess I misunderstood it.

 

[takno]

I always thought that Level 1 repeats the signal aspects. I guess I misunderstood it.

I thought this was level 2. I could be completely wrong though - it's not an area where I've been getting much information.

 

[najaB]

I thought this was level 2. I could be completely wrong though - it's not an area where I've been getting much information.

The ECML installation may well be level 2. I was answering the question generally as to if ETCS can or does display signal aspects. IIUI, in Level 2 trackside signals can be dispensed with if all stock are fitted.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I thought this was level 2. I could be completely wrong though - it's not an area where I've been getting much information.

Level 1 displays the next signal, level 2 doesn't use signals at all (however can co-exist with signals e.g. Thameslink core).

 

[Railsigns]

ETCS doesn't display signal aspects in the cab. Signal aspects differ from one country to the next, and one of the main objectives of ETCS was to allow seamless operation across borders. In short, ETCS displays the train's current speed, the permitted speed, a target speed (which may be zero), and the distance to the target.

 

[zwk500]

Lots of stuff, including:

Does The DMI give any routing information with the Movement Authority?

 

[MrJeeves]

Maybe now would be a good time to share my website which I've been working on recently. It includes storing historical records of berth data, which can then be used to replay signalling maps.

Now this is sick.

 

[TurboMan]

I always thought that Level 1 repeats the signal aspects. I guess I misunderstood it.

I thought this was level 2. I could be completely wrong though - it's not an area where I've been getting much information.

The ECML installation may well be level 2. I was answering the question generally as to if ETCS can or does display signal aspects. IIUI, in Level 2 trackside signals can be dispensed with if all stock are fitted.

Level 1 displays the next signal, level 2 doesn't use signals at all (however can co-exist with signals e.g. Thameslink core).

There's a misunderstanding here. What the DMI displays is the same in Level 1 as in Level 2 (except for the Level icon). The difference is that Level 1 uses switchable balises in the four foot to transmit info regarding the End of Authority (EoA) etc. to the train, much like GW-ATP, in effect telling the train what the next signal aspect is. The info regarding the EoA is therefore only updated when the train passes over a balise group.

Whereas Level 2 uses the GSM-R datalink to transmit this info from the radio block centre (RBC - the signal box if you like) to the train. So if a signal ahead steps up/the section ahead clears, the EoA is updated almost instantly. In Level 2, the balises are fixed, transmitting data on position, national values etc. but nothing about where the EoA is - that info comes from the RBC via GSM-R

The transmission of data to the train is therefore intermittent with Level 1 but continuous with Level 2. This is reflected in the icons for each level: the Level 1 icon has a broken line indicating intermittent, while the Level 2 icon has a solid line indicating continuous.

Neither relies on linside signals strictly speaking, but I can't see much point in a 'signals away' implementation using Level 1.

Does The DMI give any routing information with the Movement Authority?

Sort of! If there is a diverging route ahead with a different speed for each route, then the driver can infer from the speed profile on the planning area which route is set.

For example, the speed profile for Heathrow services turning left at Airport Jct off the Down Main will show the reduction in linespeed from 110mph (the maximum unit speed for 387s, even though linespeed is 125) to 75mph, as 75 is the speed onto the Heathrow branch. If the planning area shows a speed profile that remains at 110, then the route is set to continue on the Down Main.

But no, there's no specific indication of route.

In some implementations of ETCS, the signals are switched to show a special ETCS aspect (often blue) to avoid confusing drivers by the conventional aspects. For example, the ETCS may allow a train to proceed when the conventional signalling wouldn't. It could be confusing for the driver to get a red aspect in such a situation. I understand that the Thameslink signalling works like this.

If that's the case on Thameslink, then it's unique on that ETCS implementation and highlights the future problem arising from each implementation having its own idiosyncrasies (including 'national' values, which are anything but national): what happens when the dots are joined and drivers have to cope with slightly different operating principles depending on which part of the network they're on?

Since the area is overlaid with conventional signalling there would be a signal aspect, but a driver driving under ETCS would be ignoring the signals and following instructions from that.

The driver needs both a Movement Authority (MA) on the DMI  and a proceed aspect on the signal. Proceeding with only one, MA or signal, is a SPAD.