YOUR OPINION: What's your ranking of continental European train operators and why?

[700007]

As it says in the title, what's your opinion of various European train operators and why is that? If not an exhaustive list then perhaps best 3, worst 3 and one that's just average. Would be good to see how other people have experienced European train operators from their own perspective and why.

Best 3
1. ÖBB
I could wax lyrical about the Austrians. They've figured out how to run trains - high quality ones at that - and are seemingly the backbone of Central Europe. Their staff are a credit to the company, the trains are really comfortable with good leg room and are often modern even when the carriages may not necessarily be. Regular, reliable and punctual trains including their flagship 'Railjet' offering with full on bistros and a car to go with it. It's eye wateringly expensive but there's no need for reservations and trains usually have enough capacity for everyone.

2. SJ
A really premium service offering albeit with an expensive price tag especially for your longer distance runs. The seats are arguably some of the biggest and most spacious I have experienced on my international travels especially on the older intercity stock and the services generally are *usually* reliable. They're not however that frequent (most routes being about once an hour?) out of Stockholm but I understand there is a programme to expand their domestic and international offerings.

3. NS
The Dutch have used the geography of their country to their advantage. They have probably lucked out that their 4 largest cities all happen to be reasonably close to each other within the Randstad region of The Netherlands and so it negates the need for proper high speed trains. Instead they operate effectively a turn up and go intercity/sprinter service on many routes which generally are reliable, clean, modern and comfortable. Their intercity product however is far less than that of neighbouring countries and is more akin to a higher quality commuter product but then if you're only on the train for 30-60 minutes on average, do you really need all the bells and whistles? Integration with the bike hire scheme OV-Fiets is also a plus.

'Just there in the middle'
SNCB or ČD - from my experiences they're just 'there'. Nothing particularly exciting about either of them but they get the job done and are generally comfortable and punctual. I would probably put Česke Dráhy on top of SNCB.

Worst 3
3. Deutsche Bahn
Nothing else other than their appalling punctuality and the conditions of many of their stations. It's a shame as their product offering is honestly not bad for the most part. But every time I seem to use them the network has fallen over on its head - which appears to be daily - and I struggle to fathom how trains can easily lose an hour or two straight off the bat from delays. Say what you will about the UK rail network but we don't make that behaviour a regular occurrence unless something has really gone wrong.

2. Trenitalia
A great product - especially the Frecciarossa high speed train and the other service offerings from Le Frecce - ruined from personal experience by hostile customer service staff on board, the obsession with needing seat reservations, appalling punctuality and their overly expensive fares. Now the last bit might be a bit unfair as a lot of western railways are stupidly expensive but for similar pricing I find other companies give a better experience for what it is worth. Also as a tangent, something that has always baffled me is why do Le Frecce trains take needlessly long to reverse at stations? The last time I was in Firenze S. M. N I took a Frecciarossa 1000 which had come from Rome and was heading to Venice and spent 37 minutes (as booked) reversing there? Surely 10 minutes is sufficient?

1. CFR
Not sure where to start with the Romanian railways. The dirty stations. Unhelpful staff. Graffiti covered trains that are old and run down, visibly dirty and can come from the depot first thing in the morning smelling horrifically bad from whatever happened the night before. The fact that the speed limit seems to be about 30mph nationally or that the trains run to their own timetable. It feels like a rail network that is in decline and grossly unloved and under invested in.

What are your thoughts?

 

[43096]

As it says in the title, what's your opinion of various European train operators and why is that? If not an exhaustive list then perhaps best 3, worst 3 and one that's just average. Would be good to see how other people have experienced European train operators from their own perspective and why.

Best 3
1. ÖBB
I could wax lyrical about the Austrians. They've figured out how to run trains - high quality ones at that - and are seemingly the backbone of Central Europe. Their staff are a credit to the company, the trains are really comfortable with good leg room and are often modern even when the carriages may not necessarily be. Regular, reliable and punctual trains including their flagship 'Railjet' offering with full on bistros and a car to go with it. It's eye wateringly expensive but there's no need for reservations and trains usually have enough capacity for everyone.

2. SJ
A really premium service offering albeit with an expensive price tag especially for your longer distance runs. The seats are arguably some of the biggest and most spacious I have experienced on my international travels especially on the older intercity stock and the services generally are *usually* reliable. They're not however that frequent (most routes being about once an hour?) out of Stockholm but I understand there is a programme to expand their domestic and international offerings.

3. NS
The Dutch have used the geography of their country to their advantage. They have probably lucked out that their 4 largest cities all happen to be reasonably close to each other within the Randstad region of The Netherlands and so it negates the need for proper high speed trains. Instead they operate effectively a turn up and go intercity/sprinter service on many routes which generally are reliable, clean, modern and comfortable. Their intercity product however is far less than that of neighbouring countries and is more akin to a higher quality commuter product but then if you're only on the train for 30-60 minutes on average, do you really need all the bells and whistles? Integration with the bike hire scheme OV-Fiets is also a plus.

'Just there in the middle'
SNCB or ČD - from my experiences they're just 'there'. Nothing particularly exciting about either of them but they get the job done and are generally comfortable and punctual. I would probably put Česke Dráhy on top of SNCB.

Worst 3
3. Deutsche Bahn
Nothing else other than their appalling punctuality and the conditions of many of their stations. It's a shame as their product offering is honestly not bad for the most part. But every time I seem to use them the network has fallen over on its head - which appears to be daily - and I struggle to fathom how trains can easily lose an hour or two straight off the bat from delays. Say what you will about the UK rail network but we don't make that behaviour a regular occurrence unless something has really gone wrong.

2. Trenitalia
A great product - especially the Frecciarossa high speed train and the other service offerings from Le Frecce - ruined from personal experience by hostile customer service staff on board, the obsession with needing seat reservations, appalling punctuality and their overly expensive fares. Now the last bit might be a bit unfair as a lot of western railways are stupidly expensive but for similar pricing I find other companies give a better experience for what it is worth. Also as a tangent, something that has always baffled me is why do Le Frecce trains take needlessly long to reverse at stations? The last time I was in Firenze S. M. N I took a Frecciarossa 1000 which had come from Rome and was heading to Venice and spent 37 minutes (as booked) reversing there? Surely 10 minutes is sufficient?

1. CFR
Not sure where to start with the Romanian railways. The dirty stations. Unhelpful staff. Graffiti covered trains that are old and run down, visibly dirty and can come from the depot first thing in the morning smelling horrifically bad from whatever happened the night before. The fact that the speed limit seems to be about 30mph nationally or that the trains run to their own timetable. It feels like a rail network that is in decline and grossly unloved and under invested in.

What are your thoughts?

I'd agree on ÖBB, but completely disagree on NS. The train interiors are appalling - stuck in a timewarp (and not a good one) with the horrible plastic seats. Appalling that they've just carried this on with the new (and utterly garbage) ICNG units.

In my experience, DB are not as bad as everyone makes out - some seriously late running, but the quality of the trains themselves is substantially better than in many other countries - and certainly not a bottom three.

SNCB - very average, like NS, just with added graffiti. They also have a habit of using inappropriate stock on services, e.g. suburban EMUs on the Liege-Luxembourg service, which used to be comfortable loco-hauled stock.

Bottom of the pile are those countries with compulsory res long distance trains - so France, Italy and Spain are bottom of the list.

SBB and Rhatische Bahn are top of the pile, based on past experiences.

 

[rg177]

I really like ČD. You're either in for some old-fashioned stock (with accompanying comfortable seats) or something high-quality and a little more modern (such as the InterJet or refurbished Bmz carriages). Staff have improved in recent years and while they're not necessarily all smiles, they get the job done competently.

I would still rate SBB as the highest, though. Immaculate trains, great staff and of course they'll get you to where you want to be.

NS indeed is quite naff. My first few visits to the Netherlands were on First Class Interrail passes so I had a bit of a rose-tinted view of them, before realising that they're actually not the cleanest, liable to being full of graffiti and with variably comfortable seats. I've had some excellent staff encounters though - including one conductor who told me the story of him working the last public Mat' 64!

As for the absolute worst - RENFE is obsessed with behaving like an airline. I've found their staff to be frequently arrogant and rude, timetables away from AVE services are diabolical, and the quality of stock is extremely variable on local services.

 

[signed]

RENFE is way too airline-like to not go in the bottom 3.

I would put Italo in the top 3 the fares are really great, and overall great staff and service.

Meh is DB, outside of the timekeeping, I do despise the seats fitted to the Velaros as being quite bad, but stock overall seemed clean.

I am quite biased to SNCF, since it's my national operator. I would actually put it at meh though, because while TGV services are usually up to quite good standards, and I found timekeeping on my line to be quite good. TER services are very hit-or-miss on cleanliness and timekeeping.

Trenitalia is not that bad, especially with the product they have on Frecce, I had basically no interaction with staff though.

An honorable mention goes to Avanti (it's international to me), while timekeeping IS abysmal there, when it runs, the 390 first class experience is absolutely great (especially the full English breakfast)

 

[DanielB]

Instead they operate effectively a turn up and go intercity/sprinter service on many routes which generally are reliable, clean, modern and comfortable.

Where did you find clean NS trains? I haven't found them in my home country, the ones from regional operators are noticably cleaner.

Their intercity product however is far less than that of neighbouring countries and is more akin to a higher quality commuter product but then if you're only on the train for 30-60 minutes on average, do you really need all the bells and whistles?

Those 30-60 minute journeys are limited to the Randstad-area, but the same rather basic trains also run 2-3 hour trips from the extremities of the country. And now with the IC-stock shortages, it happened more than once that a SNG-unit (famous for their horrible seats, even for a Sprinter) is used for a three hour journey from Leeuwarden to The Hague for example.

 

[takno]

I'd strongly disagree on SJ. The services aren't particularly fast and are wildly irregular, the prices are pretty high and they are pretty much useless in the event of disruption. Furthermore, while the high speed services have decent interiors, the loco-hauled intercity carriages have seen better centuries, and the regional trains they run are generally pretty tatty with nasty 3+2 seating and can be extremely full. Problems are compounded on regional by most of the train being marked as reserved seating, and most of the passengers walking up without a reservation.

They are only actively good if you are booked in first on a high speed and you are travelling from Malmo, Gothenburg or Stockholm, since they have quite nice first class lounges.

The people I'd nominate as worse than SJ are SJ Nord, whose dreadful efforts at train services are a stain on Norway. A single engine breakdown caused them to bus-replace the 10 hour Bodø to Trondheim and vv day services for 7 days in a row earlier in the month, and even then only managed to stagger back to a service with 2 trains and a bus section in the middle. While this was ongoing, they only cancelled the trains late the day before and continued to sell extremely expensive tickets to the "train" right up until the point of cancellation.

I appreciate that there are worse operators in Europe, but I don't think there are worse operators in Scandinavia, and Europe-wise they are below average.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Disclaimer: my most recent continental trip was over five years ago, and some more like twenty-plus years ago. Also not used enough to do a top three/bottom three ranking, so I've just placed each operator I've used into one of three categories, but here goes:
Top tier: Česky Drahy:- Great value fares, great value catering, excellent customer service, friendly* staff and (for the most part) high quality stock. Staff also seem to be empowered to deal with miscreants very firmly, which is nice (unless you're the miscreant!).
ÖBB:- Many years since I used them, but even back then the stock was well-appointed and comfortable. From what I can gather from others on here, they've only got better since then.

Middle tier: Deutsche Bahn:- Not always the most reliable, but the staff are, in my experience at least, very good on the customer service side- particularly for those who don't speak German as a first language. However I do understand this can vary between the different Länder.
Rodalies de Catalunya: Obviously as a more local/regional operation you aren't going to get things like on-train catering and reservations, but they do operate a few longer-distance services. They seem to manage to keep the units with better interiors (and less graffiti) on those services. The staff also seemed to, much like the ČD Intercity staff, have a zero-tolerance approach to antisocial behaviour.

Bare Minimum: SNCF Intercités de nuit:- Decent value if you book well in advance, but the seated coaches have wall carpet that feels like a brillo pad so you may struggle to sleep in a window seat! The coach also has a glass internal end wall, meaning the light from the vestibule bleeds in when the saloon lights are off. No proper catering which is a big no-no for a sleeper IMO. They do apparently have a coffee machine on board somewhere, but this was unsigned and seemed to be a closely-guarded secret.
Eurostar (cross-channel):- Glad they exist, but that's as far as it goes. Expensive and often treat passengers as an inconvenience. Frustrating that they have a monopoly on the cross-channel route, and that it's such a tough market for any competitors to enter due to the safety requirements of the Chunnel.

*="friendly" might be overselling things a little, but the staff I encountered were very helpful without the slightly off-putting fake-friendliness that is more part of Anglophone culture. Friendly by Slavic standards, then... which I probably prefer to be honest!

 

[duesselmartin]

certainly, the worst must be Albania with trains hardly running at all. For the Rest you can choose any company in the Balkans.

Middle tier, NS, SNCB/NMBS and DB for reasons already mentioned,

Top tier: Any of the Swiss companies really, Luxembourg's CFL (good system and its free) and again ÖBB.

 

[Route115?]

I would have to put Swiss operators at the top, they show everyone else how to do it.

NS is pretty good, the level of cancellation seems to be reducing.

If only DB could increase their reliability I would put them in the top flight but right now I'm afraid its a case of 'could do better'.

SNCF Transilien & RATP are good in Paris.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

certainly, the worst must be Albania with trains hardly running at all. For the Rest you can choose any company in the Balkans.

North Macedonia seems to be terrible too.

Jon Worth (@[email protected])

Timetable says: train to Tabanovce Reality: no train to Tabanovce *FOR 3 YEARS* FFS

gruene.social

Jon Worth has just been on a tour of the Balkans. Here's his thread about a train ride in Albania.

Jon Worth (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image #CrossBorderRail South East Europe 2024 Train 59 of 64 7 15:00 Durrës-Plazh - Elbasan 18:00 HSH Train type: ČKD T 669 locomotive, 2 ex-DB (even ex-DR?) carriages ⛽️ : ❓(no one would care if you did) : ⛔️ : ⛔️ (but mobile reception is v good due to missing windows) ️: ⛔️ : ...

gruene.social

 

[Bletchleyite]

certainly, the worst must be Albania with trains hardly running at all.

One train pair at the moment I think. Though the core parts of what exists are mostly being rebuilt at present - will be interesting to see the outcome.

Of western European operators I agree the worst is RENFE, they just seem to be running a 12" to the foot model railway, operating whatever they feel like with no regard whatsoever to passenger demands.

SNCF aren't far off that either but are slightly better.

NS do what they do fairly well - they're just a bigger version of something like Southern or Southeastern. Not glitzy, but functional.

DB I loved in the 1990s but they seem to have caught the British "build it then don't maintain it" disease, and so it's now very run down and falling to bits, not just in punctuality terms but also many of the stations are beyond tatty. To some extent this feels true of Germany as a whole.

But I think I'd say best is SBB, despite me not being a fan of any of the double deck stock (poor seat width/legroom and tiny windows) - it's just beyond slick, and shows what you can do if you design and fund a system properly. OeBB probably second - in principle they're slick, but there are problems - in particular they've seriously overstretched themselves with Nightjet and are getting a lot of terrible reviews as a result - but also they've failed to deal with things like the recliners being broken on basically all the first class seats in the first generation Railjets (design fault), and they do at times have a bit of an overcrowding issue.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've used most of the continental train operators over the last decade or so, mostly with good experiences.
Nicest to use were the SBB family, DB, ÖBB, VR, ČD, and even SNCF (Corail Intercité).
The free ice cream on ŽS (Serbia) was very nice on a hot day, but no refreshments on Naples-Sicily (Trenitalia IC) seemed particularly mean.
I've had breakdowns in Austria (on a DB train, max refund) and Sweden (SJ).
I've had arguments with conductors about tickets on MAV, RENFE and NS, and had cheerful conversations with them on PR (Poland).
Local trains on CFR were the worst (safety hazard) not to mention their broken platforms, subways and seats (also safety hazards).
I don't find many FS (Trenitalia) stations very pleasant, eg Bologna Centrale was just a zoo, though the two in Torino were nice.
Travelling in Ukraine (in 2019) was special.

 

[W-on-Sea]

I think the single worst thing I have experienced on Romanian railways is the lack of useful information - above all, the limited number (or complete absence) of station name boards. Google maps is the most useful way to find out exactly where one is in such circumstances. I'm not sure I'd characterize the service as having declined, though: I traveled there recently and in numerous regards was surprised at how little had changed, in some areas, since my previous travels there, 30 years ago, in what were really difficult times for Romania.

 

[ricohallo]

I'll just take national operators into account as they usually run the majority of services.

Top tier:
SBB: Switzerland is the epitome of perfection, and SBB no less. The train network in Switzerland is extensive, trains are clean, frequent and punctual. Pretty much all intercity trains and up have a restaurant car, and staff are professional and friendly.
CFL: A small network, but generally reliable, comfortable and clean trains, frequent and of course free.
BDZ: From a regular passenger's view this might rather be bottom tier, but from my point of view they're fantastic. They generally have very old but comfortable trains, and for the region they operate in the timetable is not that bad. Services tend to connect pretty well, ticket prices are very low and staff are incredibly friendly and helpful. It's just a blast to be able to ride in one of the many classic old school trains and hang out of the window trundling along among pretty beautiful landscapes most of the time. The network is rather extensive too and they're one of few operators in the Balkan region who at least try to run international services together with their neighbor operators.
DSB: The comfort of their IC3 trains is just amazing. Furthermore the frequencies are decent and staff are professional and friendly. Timekeeping is good too. The network is not the biggest with a lot of it also being lost to other operators but they still cover a big part of Denmark.
ČD: Very dense network, with all kinds of interesting trains. Their stock ranges from older soviet-era railbuses to modern Railjet (and now Interjet etc.) and Pendolino trains. Their restaurant car offering is fantastic and the staff is generally friendly and helpful. Frequencies differ but are acceptable most of the time, trains are relatively clean and while delays do occur they almost always hold connections.

Middle tier:
ÖBB: Maybe in the past I would've put them in top tier, but lately they haven't been doing as well as they used to. The rolling stock always looks great and is very comfortable and usually clean enough. However especially stock availability has become an issue lately with IC and EC trains often running without a restaurant car and with fewer cars, resulting in a pretty crowded train. Railjet trains are quite regularly replaced by a replacement train consisting of some of the already sparse IC cars, and Nightjet trains are often missing sleeper cars and massively delayed or canceled with pretty appalling customer service. Staff are okay, except some of the Newrest staff on the Nightjet trains who are not always the friendliest or most professional. Restaurant car offering is great when they do run, albeit a bit on the pricier side.
DB: It's a bit of a love-hate relationship. Punctuality is appalling. Whenever I take a trip through Germany something is bound to go wrong. Trains are often pretty crowded as well. However if the trains do run they are generally pretty comfortable and the network is great and frequent. The ICEs have quite decent restaurant cars (if they're open and stocked), but ICs have nothing anymore... Staff are usually professional and great, especially considering the mess they have to work in everyday.
NS and SNCB/NMBS: I'll put them together as they're quite similar. The network and frequencies are fantastic. On-train amenities are however quite basic, enough for the usually shorter journeys but if you're taking a longer journey such as Amsterdam-Brussels, Amsterdam-Maastricht, Rotterdam-Groningen or Brussels-Luxembourg, it would've been nice if more comfort and catering was offered (and let's not even talk about Liege-Luxembourg which I refuse to do in a Desiro unit). Regarding cleanliness NS is definitely lacking, and should do a better job keeping the trains clean. SNCB/NMBS trains are generally cleaner but graffiti seems to be a bigger problem there.
SŽ: I really enjoy travelling through Slovenia with SŽ and was considering putting them in the top tier list, but frequencies often leave a lot to be desired for this part of Europe, especially on the weekends when barely any local trains are running. Train staff are very strict when it comes to tickets and come through the train to check new passengers everytime, I think this is generally a good thing. The trains are quite interesting and clean and the network is alright.
MÁV: They have quite an extensive network with some pretty impressive stations. Delays are common but usually not too big, trains range from comfortable to not comfortable at all, and from very old to brand new. Frequencies are generally great except on several very rural branch lines. The restaurant car is one of the best in Europe with real cooked meals instead of microwaved food. Train staff are often not fantastic but it differs. They are however very strict, so that's good. Tickets are cheap but the mandatory reservations can be a bit confusing as it's not always clear which trains require them.
Trenitalia: Big network and trains are pretty frequent. Compared with Spain and France Trenitalia is definitely a big step up. The reservations for Frecce trains are bothersome but there are frequent local Regionale trains pretty much everywhere, and comfort is generally fine. Regionale fares are also generally on the cheap side. Delays do exist but it's not nearly as bad as DB for example. The frequent strikes are annoying.
CP: It's great to see CP are doing everything they can with the means provided. They provide a very reasonable train service with mostly older rolling stock, but well-kept and much of it renovated to meet many of today's standards. Frequency is okay-ish and fares are pretty affordable. The network is not the most expensive but certainly not bad, and even though international connections are really bad it feels like Renfe is more at fault than CP with CP actually motivated to provide international trains in the first place and wanting to improve them. It's sad to see the Sud Express is gone, thanks to Renfe.
ZSSK: Basically very similar to ČD, but worse frequencies and slightly inferior rolling stock. Fares are low and trains are generally clean and well-equipped, with many trains having a very decent restaurant car. The cheap domestic sleeper trains are of excellent value.
 PKP: I was considering putting PKP in the bottom tier but I think it just barely makes it into middle tier. The experience of travelling by train in Poland is a bit chaotic, first of all with ticketing being very complicated. It's hard to find out which trains have compulsory reservations and when tickets become available to book, especially for the international trains. Reservations for domestic night trains can only be obtained at ticket offices in Poland. Train frequencies are not always that great either, and trains are often crowded. However the higher-end trains are quite comfortable and well-equipped and the restaurant car is excellent. No microwaved food there! Fares are also relatively cheap but integration with regional trains is pretty much nonexistent.
SJ: I don't think the train offer in Sweden is that bad. The trains are pretty comfortable and frequencies are generally acceptable considering how sparsely populated big parts of Sweden are. However, customer service is pretty bad. SJ has closed all ticket offices and removed all ticket machines, following the recent Swedish trend of nearly forcing you to use digital technology using your own phone or computer and eliminating all other options. The only way to obtain Swedish tickets without a digital device is at certain convenience stores. In case of a disruption to your journey you are usually left to figure things out on your own. At least it's possible to make the required Interrail seat reservations online, including sleeper trains.

Bottom tier:
SNCF: SNCF doesn't seem to want passengers in their trains. They make ticketing extremely complicated, with barely no passenger rights at all. Getting reservations when you have a pass can be a pain and especially for the international trains can be extremely expensive. Trains often don't connect at all and TER services are usually very infrequent. When you manage to book them TGV services are great, with clean and comfortable trains and impressive speeds. TER trains on the other hand are often quite dirty, but they are comfortable. The stations are usually well-equipped, even the more local ones. Staff is usually not the best, with train staff often not bothered to check tickets and ticket office staff often lacking knowledge when you have a more complicated case such as getting pass reservations. Waiting times at ticket offices can also be tediously long and you have to provide lots of personal details to obtain an elusive SNCF ticket.
Renfe: Renfe knows what the passenger wants. According to Renfe, passengers want all the inconveniences of air travel, very infrequent service and mandatory reservations on every train. Passengers don't want to change trains at all and pass holders don't want to make reservations anywhere but at a Spanish ticket office. Passengers don't want night trains either. Spain has a great and extensive train network, the only thing that's missing is easily accessible, frequent trains.
Vy: For a rich and developed country like Norway I can't help but be disappointed by it's trains. The network isn't that extensive which is understandable given the geography of the country. But trains are also infrequent and usually fully booked, regularly even days in advance, so there is definitely demand for more trains. Comfort-wise it's not the worst but it wasn't very comfortable either considering the long distances and journey times between big cities.
HŽPP: HŽPP don't seem that bothered to run trains anymore. International connections have gotten worse and many of them have been discontinued. The domestic network is also very infrequent with most infrastructure deteriorating. Even to major cities like Rijeka, Split and Zadar train service is poor or nonexistent. Many of the trains that do run aren't very comfortable with rubbish plastic local units regularly working long-distance trains.
SV: Pretty similar to HŽPP, but even worse. The only international trains left at the moment are the train to Bar in Montenegro (but left to only a single night train and a summer-only daytime option with local train units and a change at the border) and a recently introduced Szeged - Subotica service. The state of the infrastructure is very bad and trains are very infrequent and often don't connect either. Things are improving however with a new Chinese-built 200kmh railway already in operation between Belgrade and Novi Sad (with good train frequency and very popular) and other railways being upgraded as well. Also the train staff have been excellent, very friendly and welcoming.
 ŽPCG: Vere limited network, basically comprising of two railway lines (Bijelo Polje - Bar and Podgorica - Nikšić). Frequencies are low and trains are old and grubby on the Bijelo Polje - Bar line. New CAF trains on Podgorica - Nikšić, but very basic, not even power sockets are provided. Staff wasn't friendly or welcoming at all. Really disappointing as the country is very scenic.
CFR: Everything to do with trains in Romania is grim. The trains are grim, the stations are grim, and so is the timetable. Trains are very infrequent, and often run at very unconventient times. Even for major long-distance connections, for example with a train at 4am, 7am, 4pm and a night train at 7pm. Trains are dirty and not well-looked after. Staff are usually not very friendly and most ticket office staff is the worst. Any of the more complicated ticketing cases such as pass reservations is a pain and it's very well possible you walk away empty-handed because they don't understand what you want or they don't know how to issue it. The network is extensive but barely any trains and no service at all.

 

[takno]

NSB: For a rich and developed country like Norway I can't help but be disappointed by it's trains. The network isn't that extensive which is understandable given the geography of the country. But trains are also infrequent and usually fully booked, regularly even days in advance, so there is definitely demand for more trains. Comfort-wise it's not the worst but it wasn't very comfortable either considering the long distances and journey times between big cities.

NSB hasn't existed for 5 years or so now. SJ run the trains to Trondheim, and onwards to Bodø, and all the regional services from Trondheim. Vy, who are effectively the continuity state operator, run the route to Bergen and everything in the greater Oslo area (including trains to Gothenburg and Skien), and GoAhead run the trains to and around Stavanger.

In general they are still all using the same stock (almost all of this was new in past 10-15 years if you haven't been for a while). The Bergen route has gained some business-class style fully-flat seats on the night train though. Overall I'd say it's fine, and in fact the standard class seats are good - reasonably wide, good legroom and some level of recline. They also pretty universally have tray tables which can be pulled out to accomodate a laptop and power at the seats.

Norway fundamentally doesn't believe in first class though, so the best you'll do on most trains is a standard seat with free coffee. The free coffee is not good.

In terms of ticketing, everybody is using Entur for fulfilment. It's also used by a growing number of bus companies, and gives a really impressive ability to buy and manage all the tickets in-app (or via printable pdfs), as well as timetables, journey planning and live updates. Unfortunately GoAhead have a loyalty scheme if you book direct, and Vy sometimes seem to have better offers if you book direct, so you can't safely just use the Entur app/site for everything.

Prices outside of zonal areas are unfortunately quite high for advance purchases and absolutely scandalous for walk up fares, so you really need to plan ahead.

As you mention, journey times and frequencies outside greater Oslo aren't fantastic because there's a lot of very bendy single lines. This also makes reliability a problem, and connection guarantees are all a bit uncomfortable between the different operators. Most of the staff don't really know how to help if a connection is missed, although as far as I can tell they basically also don't care if you just get the next train, but of course that might be the next day.

The network is developing more quickly than anywhere else I can think of though, with new double track into Bergen just opened, big improvements into Drammen recently, a new lengthy tunnel to Ski and Gothenberg opened a year or so ago, and a long stretch of double track from the airport to Hamar via a straightened route which has been opening in stages and continues. Upcoming plans include further work north of Hamar towards Lillehammer, a tunnel even further out of Bergen along with more and longer loops further out, and double track to the Swedish border towards Gothenburg.

These interventions all tend to knock a casual 20-40 minutes off journey times and hugely improve reliability. I'd say that Bergen is probably now just about competitive with the plane, and certainly once they've finished the next tunnel it will be.

 

[ricohallo]

It has indeed been a while since I've been in Norway, and I'm still used to calling Vy NSB. I've changed it now!

At least it's great to hear they are actively working on improving the network and I hope trains will be a more viable option there in the future, the main improvement imo would be a greater frequency, especially on the Bergen line.

My journeys there were in NSB Komfort class back then, which indeed was more like a spiced up second class rather than first class.

 

[rvdborgt]

PKP: I was considering putting PKP in the bottom tier but I think it just barely makes it into middle tier. The experience of travelling by train in Poland is a bit chaotic, first of all with ticketing being very complicated. It's hard to find out which trains have compulsory reservations and when tickets become available to book, especially for the international trains. Reservations for domestic night trains can only be obtained at ticket offices in Poland.

I often rely on the DB planner/app to indicate mandatory reservations but portalpasazera.pl and Rozklad-PKP (app and website) also indicate it, although you have to go into the connection details.
Domestic tickets and reservations should be available 30 days in advance; international 60 days. Exceptions sometimes in case of engineering works and timetable changes. Pass reservations for domestic night trains can be booked on cd.cz.

SNCF: SNCF doesn't seem to want passengers in their trains. They make ticketing extremely complicated, with barely no passenger rights at all. Getting reservations when you have a pass can be a pain

Currently, raileurope.com is a good and reliable way to get SNCF reservations online. Including TGVs to/from France.

 

[Jamesrob637]

SBB was amazing in the 90s and early-00s even if second class was not good value for money
DB is falling apart though that could just be the present EM tournament
SNCF are good on some routes but not so good on others
CD and SNCB are pretty good
RENFE is amazing on the AVE and similar, but not so hot elsewhere outside of the major cities.
Believe ÖBB still have an excellent reputation
Italian trains vary, but never had a really bad experience.

 

[ricohallo]

I often rely on the DB planner/app to indicate mandatory reservations but portalpasazera.pl and Rozklad-PKP (app and website) also indicate it, although you have to go into the connection details.

PKP IC themselves also maintain a website indicating which IC/TLK services currently have mandatory reservations: https://www.intercity.pl/pl/site/o-...w-objetych-obowiazkowa-rezerwacja-miejsc.html

I was more referring to them having changed their mandatory reservation policies several times over the years and also that it's not as easy as 'this type of train always has mandatory reservations and this one doesn't' as some IC/TLK services have mandatory reservations (those operated with units) and some don't (loco-hauled).

Domestic tickets and reservations should be available 30 days in advance; international 60 days. Exceptions sometimes in case of engineering works and timetable changes.

Thankfully it's not as bad as Renfe or Trenitalia who add trains whenever they feel like it, but yeah especially around the timetable changes PKP often opens tickets and reservations later than that.

Pass reservations for domestic night trains can be booked on cd.cz.

The Polish domestic TLK night trains? If that's the case I didn't know about that, thanks for the tip!

Currently, raileurope.com is a good and reliable way to get SNCF reservations online. Including TGVs to/from France.

That's great, better than it used to be. Although I do wonder for how long they will keep doing it for free...

 

[signed]

TER services are usually very infrequent.

Not to say it's not true because it very much is and it's quite sad, but SNCF has no say in it at all.

The different regions have all the power, they own the stock and the timetables, but they simply don't wanna pay for more than the bare minimum. Competition there will make no difference.

Waiting times at ticket offices can also be tediously long and you have to provide lots of personal details

The issue seems (from friends working at SNCF) to be mainly the  horrible IT situation at SNCF, and from my experience it holds true.

When I had to book reservations at the ticket office, it was a struggle to make the system cooperate (especially with the French-Germany pass when I had to wait 1h for the staff to wrestle with the website), but the staff at both Rennes and Brest railway station were nice.

But yeah, stick to rail-europe, even though they got sold out from SNCF, they are quite good

 

[deltic]

I was impressed with Lithuania and Slovenia - modern and clean rolling stock. Shame most of the services seemed to be empty.

 

[stadler]

I have done my top six best railways and top six worst railways.

TOP SIX BEST RAILWAYS:

• Northern Ireland Railways (NIR):
I am not sure whether you would count this as it is still the UK but it is outside of the National Rail network. I always think that NIR is very underrated. It is such a well run network. The reliability is excellent. The fares are much cheaper than on the mainland and also much simpler. There is no ticket machines so you simply buy your ticket at a ticket office or onboard. They have excellent integration between trains and buses with most towns having their train stations and bus stations connected or next to each other. There is one company which runs all trains and infrastructure and signalling and even the buses which certainly helps. Overall i would actually say this is probably the best network in Europe and i think it is very underrated.

• Russia Railways (RZD):
I have to say Russian Railways have always impressed me. The trains are always well maintained and clean and reliable. I have travelled extensively on Russian Railways on both their suburban and regional trains and their long distance trains and have never had a delayed and cancelled train. They have also invested heavily in buying new modern trains. Their network is very modern these days with very few old trains. Even their few old ones left from the USSR days have been kept in very good condition. The stations are all kept in very good condition and are very clean. Even the tiny rural unstaffed halts in the middle of nowhere always seem to be well kept with up to date timetables posted. The fares are very cheap. Overall it just seems like a very well run network.

• Belarus Railways (BCH):
Similar to Russia i would say Belarus has done a great job with their railways. I have always found their trains to be on time and have not come across any delayed or cancelled trains. They have also invested heavily in modern trains in recent years. Also like Russia their trains from the USSR days have been kept in good condition. Their network is not quite as modernised as Russia but it is certainly almost there. It has always appeared to be a very well run network.

• Estonia Railways (ELRON):
Estonia has done an amazing job with modernising their railway network. Their entire network seems well run and they have great accessibility. Estonia is the only country in the world to have a 100% step free railway. Every single platform at every single station in Estonia is fully accessible and has level boarding meaning wheelchair users can just wheel straight on and off with no ramps or assistance required. The frequency is a bit poor when you get further from Tallinn and unfortunately they completely closed one of their railway lines recently but the trains closer to Tallinn have great frequency. The fares are also pretty good value. Overall it is a great network.

• Luxembourg Railways (CFL):
Luxembourg has a completely free railway which itself certainly wins them a spot in the top five. It is amazing to have an entire country with free trains. But also it is a nice simple network with frequent trains and fairly good reliability. There are good connections at stations with buses. It is a very small network but everything seems well run.

• NS (Netherlands) and SNCB/NMBS/NGBE (Belgium):
Just as ricohallo did i will put these together as they are quite similar. These two networks are very simple and in some ways are probably the most similar to the UK. They have very frequent trains on most routes. No reservations are required. They are just nice simple and easy to use networks compared to most other Mainland European countries.

Others like, Croatia, Czech Republic, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, all seem to do a very decent job as well and overall have extensive coverage and easy to use railways. So they certainly deserve a mention. But not quite as good to make the top six.

TOP SIX WORST RAILWAYS:

• Albania Railways (HSH):
The railways are falling apart. I believe at the moment all that is left is one train a day in each direction on a short section. Last time i visited in the late 2010s one of the trains i went on had two missing doors and multiple broken windows and yet it was in passenger service. Everything was broken. I do not think that i saw a single train that did not have something wrong with it. Even most third world countries in Africa and Asia maintain their railways better than this.

• Ukraine Railways (UZ):
I have not used them since the war so i am not sure what they are like these days. But when i last visited in the late 2010s the railways were in an appalling state. Two of the D1 trains that i went on had holes in the floors where you could actually see the track below. The trains were rotting so badly and looked very unsafe. I also went on two DR1 trains which both had some doors that were jammed open and were not closing between stations. Not quite as bad as Albania but it is certainly the country with the second worst maintained trains. Many smaller rural stations looked abandoned and many had platforms that were falling apart. I saw one station where a chunk of the platform had collapsed. Many stations do not even have a simple poster or station name board or any basics you would expect. It did surprise me as a lot of the other ex USSR countries had improved their railways a lot but unfortunately Ukraine seemed really far behind. The railways in Kiev were certainly a bit better but the further you got from the capital city the worse the trains got. In the Lviv and Ivano Frankivsk regions it seemed to be particularly bad with everything in poor condition.

• Moldova Railways (CFM):
They have an extremely limited service and very poorly maintained stations and trains Their second biggest station in the capital city of Chisinau called Visternicini looks like an abandoned station and the whole railway line going through it looks abandoned. Every single track is completely overgrown with weeds up to waist level but yet it still has a couple trains a day. It is a very poorly maintained network. Almost every station looks abandoned. Surprisingly though their D1 trains are in fairly good condition compared to the ones that neighbouring Ukraine has.

• Spain Railways (RENFE):
Spain has an awful railway. The only decent services are in the few cities that have suburban trains. They have high speed trains but they have completely neglected their regional trains. Hardly anywhere outside of the high speed lines has trains and the ones that do are very infrequent. It is a shame that they have spent all this money on high speed and then completely neglected their non high speed lines. They also love buying these awful Talgo trains for their high speed routes which feel very cheap and give a very rough ride. They also have this ridiculous security theatre with airport style security at stations.

• Eurostar (ES):
Everything about Eurostar is awful. They charge extortionate fares. The current fares that Eurostar charge are a set price of £235 Single or £408 Return for Paris or a set price of £224 Single or £388 Return for Brussels if you buy it at the station on the day. Even our domestic train operators which are known for extortionate fares do not charge such ridiculous prices for walkup fares of the same distance. They are taking the mick with these prices. Then they have a whole ridiculous unnecessary security theatre. The trains also finish so early in the evening. For some reason they do not do late evening services. Then you have the ridiculous situation of having to get to the station so early because they do passport control at the station rather than at the borders onboard. They also have the worst delay repay of any operator in the UK by far. Even the terrible delay repay that Grand Cancel offer is better than this. Eurostar has the potential to be a great operator but they run it so poorly.

• Macedonia (MZ) and Bosnia (ZFBH/ZRS):
I will put these two together because they are very similar. Both networks have a mixture of new modern trains and old run down trains but everything seems to be poorly maintained. In both countries i have found that the timetables posted at stations are not very accurate or reliable. Half the timetables never seem to run. It is very hard to find out what is actually running until you get to the station. Macedonia has a bunch of new modern DMUs (x4) and EMUs (x2) built by CRRC in 2015 but yet they seem to just sit in the depot most of the time. While most trains are formed of 40 year old stock. Bosnia has a nice new DMU (x1) built by Koncar in 2009 but yet it was only in service for about two years before it spent over a decade out of use sitting in the depot and then they only put it back to service about two years ago. So most trains are formed of very old 40 year old stock. Both countries seem to have a lot of problems with their railways.

In terms of ticketing i would put Sweden right at the very bottom. Sweden has an extremely unfriendly railway for passengers to use and makes it impossible to buy a ticket. But other than that their railway is decent enough so they do not make the worst six.

So that is my opinion of the best railways and the worst railways.

I have to say overall the railways in Europe have gone massively downhill in recent decades. I think the EU forcing countries to split up their train operators and infrastructure operators in to separate companies and franchising in to a bunch of different operators and allowing open access operators has made things a lot worse. I remember travelling extensively around Europe in the 70s and 80s and 90s and overall the railways were a lot better. Everything seemed to work better. Back then every country just had one train company running everything. I also find a lot of countries have focused a lot on high speed and intercity while neglecting their local regional stopping trains. So some countries do seem to have gone backwards compared to fourty years ago.

 

[rvdborgt]

The Polish domestic TLK night trains? If that's the case I didn't know about that, thanks for the tip!

Yes indeed. Not sure anymore if it worked with "Reservation only", adding Interrail as a discount or with both methods, but it definitely works. You do need to be quick though because they tend to sell out fast.

 

[700007]

Really interesting reading different opinions on here. There's definitely some I have to agree with and others I think I would love to try.

Those defending DB, I honestly do agree the quality of their product is in general very good. I was not slandering that by any means, but there's an element where a good offering can be scuppered by hideously bad punctuality. I'd rather an 'average' train turns up with fantastic punctuality than a very high spec train but with a delay of 60, 90 or even 120 minutes on a daily. Hence why I ranked NS as highly as I did.

The comfort of NS is by no means the best but it is also nowhere near the worst and as I said in my original post, given most journeys are within the Randstad area the interior is generally acceptable for the duration of the journeys. I did a trip to Maastricht from Amsterdam last week on a VIRM and I do agree that the longer distance journeys could be a bit better. But it wasn't insufferable.

Some other ones I want to pick out:

1. For the few of you that said Eurostar is awful - - I am completely in agreement. They are actually lucky there's worse companies out there so they didn't get a shout out in the original post. But they're a walking advertisement to fly to Europe instead and this is such a huge shame because the UK really deserves better from its sole international railway operator. I fly somewhat regularly, and I dislike flying. I hate the whole airport experience - having to turn up hours beforehand. Eurostar has the exact same thing. Waiting in one queue after another. Security. Passport control. Abysmal selection of duty free shops. Mandatory reservations. Usually hit and miss punctuality. Now I understand some of these problems obviously stem from Brexit. The rest stems from a lack of capacity at the stations they serve (London and the Netherlands in particular). But there seems to be no willpower to try and improve customer expectations. And my expectations are very high if I am paying an eye watering £200 or even £300 for a ticket. easyJet could get me across the channel for probably half of that in similar time.

The seats on an e320 are not comfortable in standard - they're better in standard premium/business I will give it that. The window alignment is awful and so many seats are just looking at plastic walls. Customer experience and these supposed TMs are nowhere to be seen and 9/10 times give poor information during regular disruption. I really do think Eurostar could be one of the best operators in Europe (at a lower price) but there needs to be both commercial and political willpower to make this work.

2. BDZ
BDZ I have travelled with a couple of times and whilst their stock would be deemed as heritage by UK standards, I agree they are really actually very good at what they do. The trains are usually somewhat punctual, clean (not the toilets!), in good nick considering their age and staff are helpful. It would be nice if there was a snack bar or restaurant car for their longer distance journeys but they show a lot of potential as an up and coming train operator and I hold them in good light.

 

[signed]

because the UK really deserves better from its sole international railway operator

I don't think either SNCF/SNCB or NS care in the slightest about what the UK deserves, in fairness. As the Channel Tunnel project is deeply political, this needs to be dealt with at the political level, not at the railway level.

The seats on an e320 are not comfortable in standard

I have never ridden an e320, but they look like the seats used in the Siemens trains in Germany or Spain on ICEs, which are deeply uncomfortable.

I am sure airlines would welcome with open hands more capacity on the Eurostar route. London airports are literally AT capacity.
Something could probably include some through ticketing from like BA (or way more likely Air France), where you would have a combined flight+transfer+Eurostar ticket to Paris instead of a flight, liberating a deeply needed Heathrow slot pair.

 

[RT4038]

Really interesting reading different opinions on here. There's definitely some I have to agree with and others I think I would love to try.



Some other ones I want to pick out:

1. For the few of you that said Eurostar is awful - - I am completely in agreement. They are actually lucky there's worse companies out there so they didn't get a shout out in the original post. But they're a walking advertisement to fly to Europe instead and this is such a huge shame because the UK really deserves better from its sole international railway operator. I fly somewhat regularly, and I dislike flying. I hate the whole airport experience - having to turn up hours beforehand. Eurostar has the exact same thing. Waiting in one queue after another. Security. Passport control. Abysmal selection of duty free shops. Mandatory reservations. Usually hit and miss punctuality. Now I understand some of these problems obviously stem from Brexit. The rest stems from a lack of capacity at the stations they serve (London and the Netherlands in particular). But there seems to be no willpower to try and improve customer expectations. And my expectations are very high if I am paying an eye watering £200 or even £300 for a ticket. easyJet could get me across the channel for probably half of that in similar time.

The seats on an e320 are not comfortable in standard - they're better in standard premium/business I will give it that. The window alignment is awful and so many seats are just looking at plastic walls. Customer experience and these supposed TMs are nowhere to be seen and 9/10 times give poor information during regular disruption. I really do think Eurostar could be one of the best operators in Europe (at a lower price) but there needs to be both commercial and political willpower to make this work.

I think you need to compare apples with apples - compare Eurostar with another European operator crossing a 'hard' border through a long undersea tunnel, 800 or so passengers at a time along high speed lines, without Government subsidy. Oh.... there aren't any. The Croatian Railway offer into Serbia is sooo much better? or Poland to Belorussia? Hardly any operations across hard borders at all, and those that are carry small numbers of passengers and often standing hours at borders whilst the checks take place ( Kapikule on the Turkish border - all out of your beds to buy a visa/get stamped in an office on the platform....). The infrastructure on E* is very expensive and the Government is not subsidising you. You are crossing a hard border. None of this is the fault of Eurostar.

I have travelled E* many, many times, and the punctuality is no worse than most other railways over a similar distance. There is a lack of capacity, but E* only have limited influence over this (without increasing their costs and therefore the already high ticket prices), and much is caused by the hard border requirements.

I for one am glad of the mandatory reservations. I don't ever want to make E* trip (or any other rail journey other than local trains) on a whim, and buying a ticket on E* online is very simple. Yes, the security and immigration is a pain, but that goes for any ordinary Britain-Continent journey (or if it isn't it is because few make the journey because of other inconveniences). Once on the train I'm glad not to have the bums of standing passengers in my face or cluttering up the vestibules when I go to the buffet for my tea. I've been on E* plenty - the scenery is not very interesting and the lack of window alignment bothers me not at all, but I understand that it might for some.

Is it better than the air experience over the same journey? - usually yes. Could the experience be better within the constraints? - not much. Could some of the constraints be addressed? - yes, but only with financial expense that I don't much want to pay in my ticket price.

My view is that the European operators are much of a muchness - each one has its ups and downs. Plus travelling on holiday is different to travelling for work or commuting. Again apples with apples.

(based on my experiences)
My best - OBB, SBB, RhB, Vy
My middle - RENFE, SNCF, DSB, SJ, NL, Slovenian,
My worst - FS, SNCB, PkP, Croatian, DB
I'm not rating E* because I don't think there is a fair comparator

 

[duesselmartin]

I don't think either SNCF/SNCB or NS care in the slightest about what the UK deserves, in fairness. As the Channel Tunnel project is deeply political, this needs to be dealt with at the political level, not at the railway level.

I have never ridden an e320, but they look like the seats used in the Siemens trains in Germany or Spain on ICEs, which are deeply uncomfortable.

I am sure airlines would welcome with open hands more capacity on the Eurostar route. London airports are literally AT capacity.
Something could probably include some through ticketing from like BA (or way more likely Air France), where you would have a combined flight+transfer+Eurostar ticket to Paris instead of a flight, liberating a deeply needed Heathrow slot pair.

Seats in the Eurostar are different and the whole inside seems inferior to the ICE Velaro trains.
I disagree with you on the comfort of the ICE seats. I find them excellent and certainly luxuary to any of the UK 's new sets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Seats in the Eurostar are different and the whole inside seems inferior to the ICE Velaro trains.

I'd agree with this, but suspect it might in part be because the classic "real wood" interior of the actual ICE (Velaro-D) would not comply with Tunnel fire regulations. The seats themselves seem comfortable enough, though the tables in the facing seats are of a strange design that gets in the way of legroom. You could (and I would) stick fake wood vinyls on the vehicle end walls, but it's obviously fake wood and wouldn't have the same luxury feel of the real wood found in ICE sets.

The main issue I have with Eurostar is how expensive it is unless booked ages in advance - as a result of this I've done almost no day trips, which I would probably have done if there was a reasonable day return price. Though sadly I think this is an image of the future on domestic rail if/when the LNER trial nonsense makes it out onto other IC routes.

 

[signed]

I disagree with you on the comfort of the ICE seats. I find them excellent and certainly luxuary to any of the UK 's new sets.

Having only ridden TfW 197s in standard, I can only agree, it's so ****ing uncomfortable (those seats are soo hard, that's unbelievable) (Avanti refurbed 390s in First is great though, but it's 1st).

But when you have the TGV on the other hand (yes, I am biased, and I have never used a Swiss train so I don't know how those compare), with proper seats in both 1st and 2nd, it really pales in comparaison, especially between Renfe and Ouigo España (those sets have kept the same seats as when they were running as inOui, with 1st class and all). But let's not get that off-topic

 

[RT4038]

The main issue I have with Eurostar is how expensive it is unless booked ages in advance - as a result of this I've done almost no day trips, which I would probably have done if there was a reasonable day return price. Though sadly I think this is an image of the future on domestic rail if/when the LNER trial nonsense makes it out onto other IC routes.

I suspect this is the reality of expensive infrastructure (high speed lines and long undersea tunnel transit) coupled with high operational costs (railways in general plus security/non-standard immigration) coupled with no Government subsidy. It is easy to take for granted the TOC support plus the ballooning Network Rail debt!