Acton Main Line to Acton Wells Jct electrification

[Sir Felix Pole]

Just a hourly Manchester Airport to Saltburn and v.v. (cut back to Redcar again from December) DMU over the Ordsall Curve now. A stonkingly bad investment.

 

[John R]

Just a hourly Manchester Airport to Saltburn and v.v. (cut back to Redcar again from December) DMU over the Ordsall Curve now. A stonkingly bad investment.

Isn’t the reason for the underuse of the Ordsall Curve the fact that the government led Network Rail up the garden path by letting it go all the way through the Transport Act process for widening the railway through Oxford Road, only to refuse to make a decision when the inspector had reported (because it didn’t want to be seen to be rejecting what presumably was a recommendation to approve).

So having built the Ordsall Curve on the assumption that capacity would be approved through Oxford Road, Network Rail had the rug pulled from under it, leaving little choice but to under use the curve.

 

[Taunton]

The difficulty with such short connections between electrified lines (same at Kentish Town/Junction Road) is the two separate existing electrification schemes will be on quite separate electrical supplies, and thus need a neutral section between them. As the connections are notably graded between lines at different levels, and as trains between them, especially heavy freight, will be travelling slowly, with signals protecting the various junctions in close proximity being regular stopping points, it can thus be extremely difficult to design the arrangements without substantial reworking on either side.

 

[Bald Rick]

The difficulty with such short connections between electrified lines (same at Kentish Town/Junction Road) is the two separate electrification schemes will be on quite separate electrical supplies, and thus need a neutral section between them. As the connections are notably graded between lines at different levels, and as trains between them, especially heavy freight, will be travelling slowly, with signals protecting the various junctions in close proximity, it can thus be extremely difficult to design the arrangements without substantial reworking on either side.

Exactly, as per post #8.

 

[The Planner]

Acton East S&C Renewal ties into it but is not the be all and end all constraining delivery.

Someone needs to re-write the Network Change then.

 

[mr_jrt]

for context, this is Acton West Junction - this is where where the Up/Down Goods lines (aka the Poplar lines) start.

View attachment 163578

(Screenshot showing a track diagram of Acton west junction. from RAIB accident report: Collision between a passenger train and two rail-mounted grinding machines at Acton West 24 June 2008, page 8. Crown Copyright, document says reuse is permitted)

Slightly more up to date view:

Detailled London transport map (track, depot, ...)

cartometro.com

 

[D7666]

The difficulty with such short connections between electrified lines (same at Kentish Town/Junction Road) is the two separate existing electrification schemes will be on quite separate electrical supplies, and thus need a neutral section between them. As the connections are notably graded between lines at different levels, and as trains between them, especially heavy freight, will be travelling slowly, with signals protecting the various junctions in close proximity being regular stopping points, it can thus be extremely difficult to design the arrangements without substantial reworking on either side.

Neutral sections per se are hardly unknown territory are they ?

AIUI it is the signalling systems immunisation around locations connecting two different supply sources or electrification systems are the bigger and more costly issues, rather than signalling principles and train operations through them.

Graham Road curve and ZFD/CTK are examples of both where significant costly works were needed to implement.

 

[Taunton]

Neutral sections per se are hardly unknown territory are they ?

Well they are on short, steep gradients.

 

[Sunil_P]

Acton ML to Acton Wells junction only needs electrifying for eastbound electric trains.

Westbound electric trains don't need OLE - they can coast down grade.

Some economy possibilities there surely to please the DfT bean counting mandarins.
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A similar short inter London line that needs OLE linking is Carlton road Jn to Junction Road Jn; as well as potential for other traffic some use could be an alternative route (e.g. blocked core disruption) for stock moves between Cricklewood and Hornsey - there are no electrified lines connecting TL north of STP with anything else. Indeed back in FCC days when the TL depot strategy was still being planned, Hornsey at one point was lined up as the major depot before 3hree Bridges, with FCC promoting / sponsoring wiring it.
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Not sure, not checked, you used to be able to, I'm sure I've done a 319 over it. But do not think you can now by EMU.

Isn't the Ince Moss Chord (Bamfurlong Sdgs Jn to Ince Moss Jn) in a similar state - no electric trains bar the occasional ECS. I not trawled anything anywhere to determine if there are any electric workings over it.
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Where do you end with OLE linking airports though ? Why just "London" airports ?

Wiring Dudding Hill to Acton Wells connecting at Acton Canel Wharf Jn adds you BHX, MAN, LPL into all that lot, all by electric train.

But the practical use of any of this is what ?

If one wants to link up airports by rail, cut air CO2 emissions etc, HS2 would logically have a LHR branch, which is far more value.

The practical use of wiring Dudding Hill? So I can "do" Dudding Hill without having to fork out thousands of quid for the Chatsworth House "posh" train!

 

[Somewhere]

Well they are on short, steep gradients.

With heavy trains prone to not being able to restart when stopped on short heavy gradients, even when they have power!

 

[Starmill]

I must have dreamt going Ordsall round it in an EMU…

Not a dream, but as per the quote you're replying to, once a day wasn't exactly a big deal. The Wilmslow - Manchester Victoria service that did it was withdrawn anyway. Unless you're referring to a journey on an electro-diesel, in which case that also has been rather rare except between December 2019 and March 2020.

 

[D7666]

The practical use of wiring Dudding Hill? So I can "do" Dudding Hill without having to fork out thousands of quid for the Chatsworth House "posh" train!

Excellent reply.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

This feels like one of those situations where an industry pot of money for strategic ‘infill’ schemes would go a long way towards ending the short-sighted silo arrangement we have today. The benefits in the long term of having an electrified route between GWML/MML/ECML/GEML and elsewhere surely should factor into the decision, rather than just a narrow short-term view of the needs of one operator in the next 5 years? (Electrification is for life, not just for Christmas, etc.)

 

[WiredUp]

Well they are on short, steep gradients.

Of 1:100 with 1:85 on approach...

 

[Horizon22]

Fair point! I was trying to convince myself that I’ve got the right location as Acton West junction doesn’t appear on Open Railway Map!

Acton West is a mainline, electrified junction. (highlighted green). Nothing required

Acton East / Poplars / Acton Wells is the rise up to the NLL (highlighted red here).

The red section is the bit that needs electifying to allow EMU traffic (primarily ECS 345s) to traverse the area. GWR 800x fleet could run bi-mode to Euston.

Don't think Acton Yard needs to be touched, nor will there be the HS2 funding to do so.

 

[WiredUp]

Acton West is a mainline, electrified junction. (highlighted green). Nothing required

Acton East / Poplars / Acton Wells is the rise up to the NLL (highlighted red here).

The red section is the bit that needs electifying to allow EMU traffic (primarily ECS 345s) to traverse the area. GWR 800x fleet could run bi-mode to Euston.

Don't think Acton Yard needs to be touched, nor will there be the HS2 funding to do so.

View attachment 163653

- HS2 aren't funding it.
- It's Acton West Jn - Acton Wells Jn that is being done. Acton East Jn - Acton Wells Jn isn't sufficient and doesn't work for the planned operations from Christmas 2026.
- Acton Yard is not being electrified.
- Acton West Jn is partially electrified, there is no OLE leading from the Reliefs onto the Down Poplar.

 

[Horizon22]

- HS2 aren't funding it.
- It's Acton West Jn - Acton Wells Jn that is being done. Acton East Jn - Acton Wells Jn isn't sufficient and doesn't work for the planned operations from Christmas 2026.
- Acton Yard is not being electrified.
- Acton West Jn is partially electrified, there is no OLE leading from the Reliefs onto the Down Poplar.

Not sure why you've quoted me as we are posting essentially the same thing but yes!

The Reliefs are of course already electrified but I suppose some are confused about the Goods lines which are adjacent to the north.

 

[starlight73]

Thanks everyone! I think I get it now So WiredUp seems to be saying that Acton West Junction to Acton East Junction will also be wired. (This is not Acton Yard but the goods edit: Poplar lines next to Acton Main Line, which looks like the yard if I don’t look closely. I think that was where I was confused).

The advantage seems to be that empty Class 345s can join the main line without conflicting with Paddington bound ones. (Out of service electric trains will be able to go over Acton Diveunder)

 

[The Chimaera]

Perhaps I ought to whisper it, but there are at least 3 new overhead stanchions lying on the ballast next to some new looking foundations on the Down Poplar at Acton West Jn. I don’t remember seeing them before.

 

[Sunil_P]

I took these pictures at Acton Main Line in 2022:

1) Platforms looking east, with the unelectrified tracks on the far left
2) Platforms looking west, with the unelectrified tracks on the far right
3) Unelectrified tracks looking east
4) Unelectrified tracks looking west

 

[WiredUp]

Thanks everyone! I think I get it now So WiredUp seems to be saying that Acton West Junction to Acton East Junction will also be wired. (This is not Acton Yard but the goods lines next to Acton Main Line, which looks like the yard if I don’t look closely. I think that was where I was confused).

The advantage seems to be that empty Class 345s can join the main line without conflicting with Paddington bound ones. (Out of service electric trains will be able to go over Acton Diveunder)

The Up and Down Poplars (as a note - not the 'Goods') in the Yard area will be needed for use by electric traction turning back when the OOC ALB's happen - which is one of the reasons they need to be electrified.

Acton East Jn is also a single lead between the Poplars and the Reliefs (via 8121A/B) so doesn't provide much capacity compared to Acton West Jn. Were there to be a desire to run electric freight in/out of Acton Yard then electrifying the Poplars fully between Acton West and Acton wells further helps.

 

[zwk500]

The Up and Down Poplars (as a note - not the 'Goods') in the Yard area will be needed for use by electric traction turning back when the OOC ALB's happen - which is one of the reasons they need to be electrified.

[Pedant] They are classified as goods-only lines in the Sectional Appendix between Acton West and Acton East junctions so 'goods lines' is a valid description while 'Goods Lines' would not be [End Pedant]

Acton East Jn is also a single lead between the Poplars and the Reliefs (via 8121A/B) so doesn't provide much capacity compared to Acton West Jn. Were there to be a desire to run electric freight in/out of Acton Yard then electrifying the Poplars fully between Acton West and Acton wells further helps.

The crossover* and Poplars east of Acton East junction are passenger rated so electrifying the crossover allows electric-only traction to use the Relief lines and platforms before diverting up over the North London Line (if wanted, unlikely in regular timetables but GWR diversions may use that facility).

* - I'm fairly sure the crossover used to be passenger rated although in the publicly available SA is now shown as goods-only, have I remembered wrong, has it been reclassified recently or is this another error that has crept in?



(3 sectional appendix pages showing Acton Wells Junction to Acton West Junction)

 

[takno]

Given that the track layout at Temple Meads has been completely wrong for a couple of years without being fixed, I'm taking the Western SA with a fairly generous pinch of salt

 

[ac6000cw]

The crossover* and Poplars east of Acton East junction are passenger rated so electrifying the crossover allows electric-only traction to use the Relief lines and platforms before diverting up over the North London Line (if wanted, unlikely in regular timetables but GWR diversions may use that facility).

* - I'm fairly sure the crossover used to be passenger rated although in the publicly available SA is now shown as goods-only, have I remembered wrong, has it been reclassified recently or is this another error that has crept in?

As I travelled over it (in both directions) a few weeks ago on the 'Westbury Wizzo' railtour, I suspect the crossover is still 'passenger rated'. There wouldn't be much point in the line from there to Acton Wells Jn being passenger-rated otherwise, as there would be no 'passenger rated' connection to it at the GWML end.

 

[Horizon22]

As I travelled over it (in both directions) a few weeks ago on the 'Westbury Wizzo' railtour, I suspect the crossover is still 'passenger rated'. There wouldn't be much point in the line from there to Acton Wells Jn being passenger-rated otherwise, as there would be no 'passenger rated' connection to it at the GWML end.

Yes I’m pretty sure charters regularly traverse it.

 

[Cowley]

Some of the speculative stuff is now in the thread below:

Acton area electrification extras that should be considered?

mods note - split from here It should’ve been done years ago, and why the Conn Line and South West Sidings aren’t being done at the same time is beyond me.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Benjwri]

The gantries have now been delivered to the site and are lying beside the rail line for now. Visible from the GWML.

 

[NSEWonderer]

The gantries have now been delivered to the site and are lying beside the rail line for now. Visible from the GWML.

Sounds promising

 

[Deepgreen]

Incredible this wasn’t done years ago. Does this mean we could see electric freight on the great western?

No, no - it's the British way to run as much diesel mileage under the wires/over the juice rail as possible... More seriously, where are the electric locos to run them?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

No, no - it's the British way to run as much diesel mileage under the wires/over the juice rail as possible... More seriously, where are the electric locos to run them?

Class 93/99's wil do nicely sir