Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[Tractor37]

According to the BBC a Wartime UXB has been found near Cross Gates Station.
Was it found by any of the Upgrade works ?

No they are building a housing estate on the land next to the railway formerly occupied by Vickers tank factory. It was the builders who unearthed it. Nothing to do with any railway upgrade work - not got that far yet!

 

[WAO]

Unlucky Luftwaffe to achieve an important direct hit but with a dud.

German engineering!

 

[matacaster]

Just been past Hillhouse compound. First time I've seen a bit of track in place. It's at Huddersfield end but not connected to main line yet.
Lots of serious earth moving work ongoing in Deighton area.
Mirfield platform relocation a little further east seems to be making good progress.

 

[Phillipimo]

I found this talk on the Permanent Way Institute (PWI) Youtube channel which gives an up to date overview of the project. There's too much to summarise but there's an up to date line speed graph, discussion of Huddersfield station track layout and plenty more. It's a long watch but worth a look.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Just been past Hillhouse compound. First time I've seen a bit of track in place. It's at Huddersfield end but not connected to main line yet.
Lots of serious earth moving work ongoing in Deighton area.
Mirfield platform relocation a little further east seems to be making good progress.

Ive seen a post on Fbook and apparently its 4 sidings!

 

[The exile]

I wonder if conversations of this type took place when the canal companies saw the danger to their profitability at the time of the advent of the railways.

Well - different canal companies reacted differently and fared differently! No public money going into either at the time, of course - indeed “public money” as we know it hardly existed.

Unlucky Luftwaffe to achieve an important direct hit but with a dud.

German engineering!

but probably manufactured by people rather less than dedicated to the cause!

 

[InOban]

Well - different canal companies reacted differently and fared differently! No public money going into either at the time, of course - indeed “public money” as we know it hardly existed.

The industrial revolution was funded by the profits of our colonial activities - the pillaging of India and the slave trade. Ultimately public money was used to buy out the slave owners who recycled the money into grand houses, canals, and then railways.

 

[superkev]

I found this talk on the Permanent Way Institute (PWI) Youtube channel which gives an up to date overview of the project. There's too much to summarise but there's an up to date line speed graph, discussion of Huddersfield station track layout and plenty more. It's a long watch but worth a look.

Most interesting video. I hadn't realised that at Leeds Road Huddersfield they were building a temporary bridge while the existing was renewed with a better road allinement.

Not realised viaduct over the Calder at Ravensthlorpe was 4 track. K

 

[WAO]

The industrial revolution was funded by the profits of our colonial activities - the pillaging of India and the slave trade. Ultimately public money was used to buy out the slave owners who recycled the money into grand houses, canals, and then railways.

A bit more complicated than that. Plenty of canals (irrigation), railways (43 500 miles), the biggest steel plant in the world, a textile industry, Royal Enfield, Ashok Leyland, etc etc left behind (in India) of course. Back to topic.

 

[coxxy]

Just been watching the PWI video, and a couple of times he's mention 7 car 802's in the future at Huddersfield. Is there a plan for 7 car 802's at TPE? Or is that just wishful thinking?

 

[The exile]

The industrial revolution was funded by the profits of our colonial activities - the pillaging of India and the slave trade. Ultimately public money was used to buy out the slave owners who recycled the money into grand houses, canals, and then railways.

True - but the decisions on whether to invest in railways or canals were being made by private individuals with “their” money - whatever the source of those funds had been.

 

[Nottingham59]

Just been watching the PWI video, and a couple of times he's mention 7 car 802's in the future at Huddersfield. Is there a plan for 7 car 802's at TPE? Or is that just wishful thinking?

The plan is for TPE to get new trains 195m long. I understand that Manchester Victoria has 200m platforms, so that would be a sensible standard. See

Procurement of new TransPennine Express trains to learn lessons from past

UK: TransPennine Express has confirmed more details of the trainsets which are to be ordered under the procurement process which was launched following the confirmation of the latest £3·9bn tranche of funding for the Transpennine Route Upgrade programme. Expressions of interest were invited in...

www.railwaygazette.com

The trains will be needed to support the increased service frequency between Manchester and Leeds, where — in conjunction with Northern — six trains/h will operate over the upgraded line. To meet capacity requirements, all services will be formed of at least five cars, bringing an end to the operation of three-car DMUs. Each new train will be up to 195 m long, with a maximum speed of 200 km/h.

EDIT: Also

TPE seeks MORE bi-mode trains

TransPennine express is seeking expressions of interest to supply at least 25 125mph bi-mode trains.

www.modernrailways.com

"Any proposed solutions should be modular and flexible to increase train length from 5-car to either 6-car or 7-car, but noting maximum train platform lengths along the route and train stabling road locations of no more than 200m. Options for longer or alternative formations will be considered provided they remain within the 200m limit."EDIT

 

[Whistler40145]

Where are the Electrical Feeder Stations located between Manchester Victoria and York?

 

[59CosG95]

Where are the Electrical Feeder Stations located between Manchester Victoria and York?

Heyrod (in operation), Ravensthorpe (in planning), and Hambleton Jn (currently only feeding to CF, but planned to go further west). No feeders exist within Leeds itself AIUI.

 

[Whistler40145]

Heyrod (in operation), Ravensthorpe (in planning), and Hambleton Jn (currently only feeding to CF, but planned to go further west). No feeders exist within Leeds itself AIUI.

Cheers

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The plan is for TPE to get new trains 195m long. I understand that Manchester Victoria has 200m platforms, so that would be a sensible standard.

Will all/any of this procurement survive the transition to the Labour DfT and new industry structure (initially SGBR)?
Nobody wants a repeat of the HS2 situation where the trains were ordered too early while the infrastructure extent was still in flux, and the integration with classic services undefined.
Why does TPE need to order new trains now for introduction in 2030 (or later)?

 

[Nottingham59]

Will all/any of this procurement survive the transition to the Labour DfT and new industry structure (initially SGBR)?
Nobody wants a repeat of the HS2 situation where the trains were ordered too early while the infrastructure extent was still in flux, and the integration with classic services undefined.

Who knows?

Why does TPE need to order new trains now for introduction in 2030 (or later)?

Dunno. TPE published at "Plan for the future" in 2023 which suggests different timescales

TPE Our Plan for the Future a Prospectus | TransPennine Express News

News from TransPennine Express

mediacentre.tpexpress.co.uk

 

[takno]

Why does TPE need to order new trains now for introduction in 2030 (or later)?

Seems about the right timeline to be gathering expressions of interest for delivery in late 2030/early 2031. There's no particular reason why rolling stock orders should struggle under the GBR transition, since they will still just be ordered via a RoSCO. Nobody can afford to nationalise rolling stock just now.

 

[Killingworth]

Who knows?


Dunno. TPE published at "Plan for the future" in 2023 which suggests different timescales

TPE Our Plan for the Future a Prospectus | TransPennine Express News

News from TransPennine Express

mediacentre.tpexpress.co.uk

Methinks we must be due a 2024 update on that?

 

[coxxy]

The plan is for TPE to get new trains 195m long. I understand that Manchester Victoria has 200m platforms, so that would be a sensible standard. See

Procurement of new TransPennine Express trains to learn lessons from past

UK: TransPennine Express has confirmed more details of the trainsets which are to be ordered under the procurement process which was launched following the confirmation of the latest £3·9bn tranche of funding for the Transpennine Route Upgrade programme. Expressions of interest were invited in...

www.railwaygazette.com

EDIT: Also

TPE seeks MORE bi-mode trains

TransPennine express is seeking expressions of interest to supply at least 25 125mph bi-mode trains.

www.modernrailways.com

"Any proposed solutions should be modular and flexible to increase train length from 5-car to either 6-car or 7-car, but noting maximum train platform lengths along the route and train stabling road locations of no more than 200m. Options for longer or alternative formations will be considered provided they remain within the 200m limit."EDIT

Completely forgot about new trains tbh. Cheers

 

[Class 170101]

Heyrod (in operation), Ravensthorpe (in planning), and Hambleton Jn (currently only feeding to CF, but planned to go further west). No feeders exist within Leeds itself AIUI.

Does that meaning wiring from Hambleton to Micklefield is happening or is this another extension lead?

(I thought Micklefield to Selby had been postponed?)

 

[Nottingham59]

Does that meaning wiring from Hambleton to Micklefield is happening or is this another extension lead?

(I thought Micklefield to Selby had been postponed?)

Hambleton can feed via Colton Junction and Chuch Fenton

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I found this talk on the Permanent Way Institute (PWI) Youtube channel which gives an up to date overview of the project. There's too much to summarise but there's an up to date line speed graph, discussion of Huddersfield station track layout and plenty more. It's a long watch but worth a look.

Thanks for posting very informative about the plans but they are very non committal about future timelines which seems to be the way of rail projects these days. Also you have to wonder though whether 110mph max speed is really worth it give speed profile of trains

 

[59CosG95]

Hambleton can feed via Colton Junction and Chuch Fenton

And has passive provision to plug the gap between Micklefield & Selby.

 

[zwk500]

And has passive provision to plug the gap between Micklefield & Selby.

Although as noted in the PWI video linked above, that section has been deferred. I'd have though Micklefield-Hull with the link to Temple Hirst Jn would be a reasonably benefiical scheme, but such is the pressure on costs...

 

[Halish Railway]

On the topic of routes that could have been included in this scheme, will platforms 1 and 2 at Church Fenton be electrified or will it be just platforms 3 and 4 and the through track?

If 1 and 2 was a electrified it’d be reasonable to assume the bridge at the end of the platform would be raised, meaning that there wouldn’t be too many structures in need of reconstruction between Church Fenton and Gascoigne Wood Jn if that route was selected as an infill electrification scheme alongside Micklefield to Selby.

 

[stevieinselby]

How congested is that section?

Very!
There are about 8tph running between Leeds and Micklefield – 4 TPX, 1 XC and 3 Northern.
This limits the number of trains that can stop at Cross Gates, Garforth, East Garforth and Micklefield, because it delays all the fast trains, and has a horrendous impact on reliability because any train running late will cause knock-on delays for other trains.

Years ago, I used to commute from Church Fenton to York, and there would be a collective groan across the platform if ever a TPX or XC train came through within a couple of minutes of when our train was due, because we knew that we then had the best part of 15 minutes to wait before the stopping train would get to us, even if it had left Leeds hot on the heels of the fast train.

 

[BantamMenace]

On the topic of routes that could have been included in this scheme, will platforms 1 and 2 at Church Fenton be electrified or will it be just platforms 3 and 4 and the through track?

If 1 and 2 was a electrified it’d be reasonable to assume the bridge at the end of the platform would be raised, meaning that there wouldn’t be too many structures in need of reconstruction between Church Fenton and Gascoigne Wood Jn if that route was selected as an infill electrification scheme alongside Micklefield to Selby.

Only 1 overbridge just after South Milford (heading south) but plenty of farm crossings. Electrifying doesn't provide huge benefit though with there being no connections to the west. Only 1tph York to Hull could be switched to electric and that relies on electrification beyond Selby all the way to Hull and would also mean to extensions to Bridlington. All in all, an easy infill scheme but still cost for very little benefit without a whole host of dependencies being done first.

Very!
There are about 8tph running between Leeds and Micklefield – 4 TPX, 1 XC and 3 Northern.
This limits the number of trains that can stop at Cross Gates, Garforth, East Garforth and Micklefield, because it delays all the fast trains, and has a horrendous impact on reliability because any train running late will cause knock-on delays for other trains.

Years ago, I used to commute from Church Fenton to York, and there would be a collective groan across the platform if ever a TPX or XC train came through within a couple of minutes of when our train was due, because we knew that we then had the best part of 15 minutes to wait before the stopping train would get to us, even if it had left Leeds hot on the heels of the fast train.

Does the advantage of quicker accelerating electric stoppers get negated by adding a stop at Thorpe Park as well? Its a real shame they aren't 4-tracking Neville Hill to the M1 overbridge just after Thorpe Park as a dynamic loop. They could also reinstate Osmondthorpe station.

 

[Meerkat]

Does the advantage of quicker accelerating electric stoppers get negated by adding a stop at Thorpe Park as well? Its a real shame they aren't 4-tracking Neville Hill to the M1 overbridge just after Thorpe Park as a dynamic loop. They could also reinstate Osmondthorpe station.

In the video linked above it was mentioned that discussions are being had about making Cross Gates to Thorpe Park four track, including the two stations.

 

[IanXC]

Only 1 overbridge just after South Milford (heading south) but plenty of farm crossings. Electrifying doesn't provide huge benefit though with there being no connections to the west. Only 1tph York to Hull could be switched to electric and that relies on electrification beyond Selby all the way to Hull and would also mean to extensions to Bridlington. All in all, an easy infill scheme but still cost for very little benefit without a whole host of dependencies being done first.

Given the historic services patterns and the level of through journeys it would not be unreasonable to detach the York to Hull service from Bridlington. Plus if Leeds to Bradford Interchange wiring is still on the agenda(?) then it would be entirely reasonable to turn the Hull - Halifax service into a Hull - Bradford service. Add to that Hull Trains and LNER going electric, and with TPE being electric capable following TRU and it looks a lot more reasonable.

When you align that with how few overbridges there are to contend with, I struggle with the idea it would be an exceedingly expensive scheme (Hull station itself not withstanding).