Spath Level Crossing - Do not cross while lights are flashing

[Thames99]

I recently came across this thread in a forum

UK's First Automatic Level Crossing - SABRE

Unfortunately the link in the first post does not work, but it is about the UK's first automatic half barrier crossing near Uttoxeter. It only lasted for a few years before the line was closed

Part of the discussion relates to the wording on the signs which apparently said "Do not cross while lights are flashing" which had to be changed as in Yorkshire while can have the meaning of until.

I wondered if there is any truth in this story or is it an urban myth. And maybe Yorkshire readers could comment on the meaning of 'while'.

 

[urbophile]

It's certainly a dialect expression in parts of Yorkshire - my dad, born and bred in Keighley, and quite a stickler for 'correct' use of language. nevertheless always used 'while' to mean 'not before'. However, the idea that several casualties have occurred at crossings owing to people waiting to use them until a train was approaching, is almost certainly an urban myth.

 

[InkyScrolls]

I recently came across this thread in a forum

UK's First Automatic Level Crossing - SABRE

Unfortunately the link in the first post does not work, but it is about the UK's first automatic half barrier crossing near Uttoxeter. It only lasted for a few years before the line was closed

Part of the discussion relates to the wording on the signs which apparently said "Do not cross while lights are flashing" which had to be changed as in Yorkshire while can have the meaning of until.

I wondered if there is any truth in this story or is it an urban myth. And maybe Yorkshire readers could comment on the meaning of 'while'.

Definitely a term here in Yorkshire.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Part of the discussion relates to the wording on the signs which apparently said "Do not cross while lights are flashing" which had to be changed as in Yorkshire while can have the meaning of until.

I wondered if there is any truth in this story or is it an urban myth.

No, it's not true.

The signs said "STOP when lights flash". An example is here, which is a photo from an interesting article on The Railway Hub about the Hixon crash.

The wording, and the signs themselves, changed after the Hixon crash in 1968.

 

[edwin_m]

I've heard this one in connection with the signs on temporary traffic lights. I'm pretty sure they used to say "wait here while red light shows", now changed to "wait here until green light shows" or "when red light shows wait here".

 

[stuving]

This was reported in the Nottingham Evening Post of 30 November 1966 (from BNA):

However, I also found a reference to the Traffic Signs (Amendment) Regulations 1960 as covering the new AHB crossings, and it certainly sounds odd for it to be up to a county council to decide this on their own.

 

[rower40]

“Do not flush while the train is in the station.”
The mind boggles.

 

[stuving]

Since the Spath crossing was the inspiration for this thread, I'll mention that I came across a report of its opening on Monday 6 February 1961. That was in the Nottingham Guardian Journal, and it called the line the London-Manchester night freight line. There's no details about the wording of signs, but it does refer to the barrier as being a pole - a common way then to make clear it wasn't a gate.

 

[Pigeon]

I have always wondered if that particular dialect usage gives rise to computer programmers who always get their loop termination conditions the wrong way round unless they're using BBC BASIC.

 

[JKF]

It confused me when I lived in Yorkshire, people would describe working ‘nine while five’. I’m sure someone local has covered the Dolly Parton song with suitably amended lyrics!

 

[AndrewE]

"While" is used that way west of the Pennines too, I first met it with colleagues from Warrington and Wigan.

 

[Flying Claret]

Definitely a term used here in East Lancs...
"Just wait while I put my coat on, will ya?"

 

[The exile]

Definitely a term used here in East Lancs...
"Just wait while I put my coat on, will ya?"

Though that can mean both…

 

[Dr Hoo]

I've tracked down two original photographs of Spath Crossing. One was in the April 1961 Railway Magazine and the other in Level Crossings by Stanley Hall and Peter Van Der Mark, generally regarded as the definitive book dedicated to the subject. Neither show any signs about "Please wait while..." or similar.

There are several photographs of Stallingborough, Lincolnshire; another early installation (June 1962). The only permanent sign is "Use telephone if there is undue delay" under the left-hand set of wig-wags. There was a "Second train coming" sign under the right-hand wig-wags that was only illuminated as necessary.

Extensive use was made of leaflets for local publicity and the Stallingborough one is shown:

STOP when red lights commence to flash and gongs ring.

WATCH for illuminated sign indicating SECOND TRAIN COMING.

DON'T overtake when approaching or on the crossing.

NEVER duck under the barrier...

ALWAYS wait for the barrier to reach its full raised position before proceeding.

I heard the story about 'Please don't cross while lights flash' from quite a young age but have seen any proof that such signs existed. In my railway career I have managed (and locally operated) plenty of AHBs but never heard the story seriously from any rail staff (mess room wibble doesn't count).

 

[Railsigns]

The provision of wig-wags at UK level crossings predates the first AHB installation by a few years, so the wording of the signs at Spath is inconclusive proof of the non-existence of "wait while..." signs.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The provision of wig-wags at UK level crossings predates the first AHB installation by a few years, so the wording of the signs at Spath is inconclusive proof of the non-existence of "wait while..." signs.

I am only aware of the Warthill trial, initiated in 1952. Photographs show single full-width barriers actually driven by a traditional 'wheel' from the adjacent signalbox. There are red wig-wags with 'STOP' on the lens (as used to be the case for road traffic signals). There was a separate illuminated 'disc', rather like an ancient pole-mounted disc signal (NOT like 'ground discs' for shunting), that when rotated from parallel to the road to parallel to the line, showing 'STOP' in large letters. There were no other signs, such as 'wait while...'.

If you can reference any other specific installations I would be very interested.

 

[Railsigns]

If you can reference any other specific installations I would be very interested.

Another early one with wag-wags was Courtybella Crossing (Newport), which was described and illustrated in the Railway Gazette of June 24, 1960.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Another early one with wag-wags was Courtybella Crossing (Newport), which was described and illustrated in the Railway Gazette of June 24, 1960.

Thank you. Pics on interweb suggest no ‘wait while…’ signs though.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It confused me when I lived in Yorkshire, people would describe working ‘nine while five’.

Confused us as kids, growing up in Lincolnshire with parents both from London. "We're open while five o'clock" (until? from?)

The classic, but also probably apocryphal, is the foreman instructing the apprentice "Don't light fire while water's int' boiler"