GWR - Unacceptable for Xmas Eve.

[johncrossley]

That would almost certainly worsen things.

Surely the railway doesn't deserve our custom given such outrage?

 

[transportphoto]

Should passengers boycott trains on Christmas Eve?

It’d make the staff’s job a lot easier. The railway would run a lot smoother if it weren’t for passengers.

 

[Trainman40083]

Real Time Trains shows there was a train to Didcot just after 22.01...Then another to Reading, then an Elizabeth Line service to Paddington, so maybe a taxi would not have been needed.

 

[Deepgreen]

Surely the railway doesn't deserve our custom given such outrage?

The TOCs may not, but the wider 'railway' should not be allowed to decline even further because of such poor short-term performance. A boycott of trains would probably lead to even fewer running, and so on. The damage done by privatisation is so deep and so long-term that it will be a mammoth task to climb out of the resultant quality pit. It is easy to run down services but far harder to restore them.

 

[jamesst]

I'm confused here. Was this service advertised as running even with the early shut down or did the OP decide on getting this service before the timetable for Christmas Eve was published?

 

[FGW_DID]

I’ve been on the railway for 13 years, 11 years in my current role (FGW/GWR) and as far as I remember Christmas Eve has never been a normal timetabled day.
In fact this is the first year that colleagues have finished post midnight. Normally once all units are on depot, shut down, isolated and the Christmas Possession / isolation has been taken and all the paperwork done, the controller has been out the door by 2330 - midnight.
This year the last unit was arriving at 0030!

 

[Mark J]

I sympathise with the OP. Whilst not quite in the same boat, I have found the reliability on the Hayes Line lately has been terrible. Tried to use it the other day to see family only to find the next two southbound trains were cancelled as was the fourth train. Didn't trust the the third, running, train so had to go an alternative route. Otherwise it would be a 2 hour wait at Catford!

Reliability has fallen through the floor this year. On all rail services, not just GWR.

I seem to be submitting delay repay claims every week at the moment.

Last Saturday I went to Aylesbury on Chiltern Trains. The 19:34 return journey came up cancelled with short notice, I had to wait around an hour, then scramble to High Wycombe bus station for the last 850 bus home.

The overall situation is becoming unacceptable.

There should be no fare increases next year for regularly unreliable services/operators. It just isn't fair that we keep being stung for more and more each year, with zero improvement to the overall service.

I still recall being told in 2013 that the then new Reading Station would help give us a more reliable service. 11 years later, I'm still waiting...

I'm confused here. Was this service advertised as running even with the early shut down or did the OP decide on getting this service before the timetable for Christmas Eve was published?

The train times were published on the National Rail Timetable app, and available to purchase through various rail apps/websites.

When I checked in the morning of 24th for last trains home. All were showing as running as planned, no cancellations. Cancellations starting occurring late afternoon.

How much nore 'official' do you require than the National Rail app for on the day times?

 

[InOban]

The first mistake by GWR was ever timetabling a train on Christmas eve as late as 22.01. Even here in Scotland the day is anything but a normal working day. By the evening hardly anyone is travelling and the last trains ouf of Glasgow and Edinburgh are around 21.00. OP doesn't say how many other people had turned up expecting a train, so he might even been on his own.
I struggle to think of any business which operates normal hours and full staffing on Christmas eve. Much of the economy stopped last Friday

 

[Mark J]

My point was more along the lines of the OP would not have known who would have sorted a taxi because they didn’t ask. They were implying that the platform colleague was 1) alone, and 2) useless.

Excuse me!

I did not imply, nor state anyone was 'useless', so please don't start making things up.

Considering there were no visible station staff around the concourse, then it would have been somewhat difficult to speak to anyone.

I've never been in a position to request a Taxi before, so don't know what the process is - or who pays. Hopefully, I won't ever have to be.

Of course some on this thread could be implied to think that Delayed/cancelled trains are the passengers fault. Or are stupid for not knowing a timetabled train won't be running when it should be, especially when publicised as running earlier in the day.

 

[father_jack]

Real Time Trains shows there was a train to Didcot just after 22.01...Then another to Reading, then an Elizabeth Line service to Paddington, so maybe a taxi would not have been needed.

Yep 2207 to Didcot arrive 2222 then 2236 to Reading arrive 2300. OP needed to press the down arrow in his photo in the the first post.

 

[Clarence Yard]

No fare increases? The Treasury won’t like that. You pay your travel tax, whether you get a good service or not. They want “their” money off you. It won’t hurt the TOC - they don’t suffer any financial consequences whether the fares increase or not. It’s the taxpayer who suffers from a no fares increase.

Having said that, GWR overreached themselves with the timetable they offered for Xmas Eve. They nearly got away with it and I know the train concerned was a very late cancellation, after all other options had been ruled out. All the available spares had been used up covering other jobs so when the shortfall presented itself, a cancellation and taxis was the only option.

This isn’t a fault of privatisation either. Resourcing games really started in BR sector days but it wasn’t so apparent to the passenger then. Nowadays, with the DfT calling the TOC budgetary shots, it has become far more commonplace. They don’t know how to run a railway.

 

[TUC]

Sorry, but are you living in some kind of parallel universe?

1/ The 2201 was cancelled!

2/ 24th is not a normal working day. In GWR's own words "train services will finish from approximately 2000 on most routes on Christmas Eve"

3/ If you think the "published timetable of the day" can be relied on with GWR then very best of luck with that. As a frequent user I would always recommend check, check and check again as the OP wisely did.

Frankly, customers do think they should be able to rely upon the published timetable of the day. For anything else, it is a sign of a low grade, poor quality business where customers cannot rely upon what they promise. Rail is no different, is it?

 

[Mark J]

Frankly, customers do think they should be able to rely upon the published timetable of the day. For anything else, it is a sign of a low grade, poor quality business where customers cannot rely upon what they promise. Rail is no different, is it?

The attitude I do get from some is passengers/customers are a nuisance, inconvenience and seemingly at fault for everything - including late/cancelled trains, and being 'stupid' for relying on a published timetable. One that has been available, in advance, for many weeks.

Not everyone who uses the railways is reliant on mobile technology to tell then when things are delayed and cancelled.

Yet those very customers are expected to show unwavering support when it comes to train staff pay rises, and various union gripes.

It is two way. Treat your paying customers with a bit of respect (fare evaders can do one), then they will have your back when you need their wider support.

 

[vicbury]

The attitude I do get from some is customers are a nuisance, pain and seemingly at fault for everything - including late/cancelled trains, and being 'stupid' for relying on a published timetable. One that has been available, in advance, for many weeks.

Not everyone who uses the railways is reliant on mobile technology to tell then when things are delayed and cancelled.

Yet those very customers are expected to show unwavering support when it comes to train staff pay rises, and various union gripes.

It is two way. Treat your paying customers with a bit of respect (fare evaders can do one), then they will have your back when you need their wider support.

Indeed, respect is earned not given. Blaming the customer because an advertised service was not provided is bonkers, and in any industry with competition would be business suicide.

 

[Westerndiesels]

Going to Torquay in February on a Friday to Sunday break.
My possibly wrong perception of stories of driver shortages mean I plan to drive. I will continue to do so until I'm more confident that trains are reliable.
I was a frequent leisure user.

 

[WAB]

The first mistake by GWR was ever timetabling a train on Christmas eve as late as 22.01. Even here in Scotland the day is anything but a normal working day. By the evening hardly anyone is travelling and the last trains ouf of Glasgow and Edinburgh are around 21.00. OP doesn't say how many other people had turned up expecting a train, so he might even been on his own.
I struggle to think of any business which operates normal hours and full staffing on Christmas eve. Much of the economy stopped last Friday

People have certain needs and expectations, even on Christmas Eve. The 22.01 arrived in the same hour as the last long-distance services, which started from their origins at 18.18, so there'd still be trains running at that sort of hour even if the Oxford didn't run.

 

[Mark J]

Going to Torquay in February on a Friday to Sunday break.
My possibly wrong perception of stories of driver shortages mean I plan to drive. I will continue to do so until I'm more confident that trains are reliable.
I was a frequent leisure user.

Well this overall situation is now making me think twice about buying tickets in the forthcoming GWR and Great British rail sales. All well and good getting somewhere for less, but not if you end up being possibly stranded there.

 

[Haywain]

Travel by car, simple as that. The rail "service" is a joke.

Easy comment to make but not necessarily an available option for everyone.

 

[43066]

Frankly, customers do think they should be able to rely upon the published timetable of the day. For anything else, it is a sign of a low grade, poor quality business where customers cannot rely upon what they promise. Rail is no different, is it?

But the business is being prevented from offering better incentives to its own staff by the DfT, as has been explained many, many times before. So just condemning it as “a low grade poor quality business” doesn’t really shine a light on matters, does it?

Yet those very customers are expected to show unwavering support when it comes to train staff pay rises, and various union gripes.

It is two way. Treat your paying customers with a bit of respect (fare evaders can do one), then they will have your back when you need their wider support.

It isn’t the train staff who are making the decisions that have led to the cancelled trains, which are due to insufficient numbers of said staff existing in the first place.

 

[Snow1964]

Going to Torquay in February on a Friday to Sunday break.
My possibly wrong perception of stories of driver shortages mean I plan to drive. I will continue to do so until I'm more confident that trains are reliable.
I was a frequent leisure user.

Same here, often drive nowadays because GWR has become too unreliable. With GWR only having 60% of journeys on time (latest ORR figures), its now a rarity for both outward and return to operate perfectly.

We tended to make lots of journeys locally to Bath, but trains lunchtime and early afternoon (when we tended to travel) seem to get a disproportionate number of cancellations due to lack of staff. Become so bad recently we let the railcard expire without being renewed as they have failed too often.

 

[TUC]

But the business is being prevented from offering better incentives to its own staff by the DfT, as has been explained many, many times before. So just condemning it as “a low grade poor quality business” doesn’t really shine a light on matters, does it?

The point is, don't publish a timetable that you don't know whether you can deliver until a few days before. Don't get into a position of having agreements with staff which enable that uncertainty. Don't expect customers to just shrug their shoulders and accept the position. That's what's low grade.

 

[dangie]

I’m not clued up on this at all, so may I ask some questions.

If I’m at an unstaffed station and find that my last train has been cancelled, what can I do do?

• Who do I phone?
• Where do I get the phone number?
• Will I get a taxi provided?
• If so who arranges the taxi?
• Would this be a local taxi company?
• Who initially pays for the taxi?

I’d hazard a guess that at busy times of the year e.g. Christmas, there’d be more chance of knitting fog than getting a taxi. I’m sure there’s more questions, but I really don’t know what I’d do in this situation, and I’d guess most of the public don’t know either.

 

[transportphoto]

If I’m at an unstaffed station and find that my last train has been cancelled, what can I do do?

• Who do I phone?
• Where do I get the phone number?
• Will I get a taxi provided?
• If so who arranges the taxi?
• Would this be a local taxi company?
• Who initially pays for the taxi?

Who to phone? Use the Help Point, or call Customer Services/similar with numbers usually available on posters/websites/similar.
Will you get a taxi? Maybe. They may advise of an alternative solution.
Who arranges it? If agreed, the train company via an intermediary such as CMAC (https://www.cmacgroup.com/).
Will this be a local taxi company? Usually, yes - but maybe not. It entirely depends on who the intermediary passes the job to, and which company accepts.
Who pays? It’s paid on account via the intermediary.

 

[Snow1964]

I’m not clued up on this at all, so may I ask some questions.

If I’m at an unstaffed station and find that my last train has been cancelled, what can I do do?

• Who do I phone?
• Where do I get the phone number?
• Will I get a taxi provided?
• If so who arranges the taxi?
• Would this be a local taxi company?
• Who initially pays for the taxi?

I’d hazard a guess that at busy times of the year e.g. Christmas, there’d be more chance of knitting fog than getting a taxi. I’m sure there’s more questions, but I really don’t know what I’d do in this situation, and I’d guess most of the public don’t know either.

In theory, you can use the station help point.
But a recent survey by ORR estimated (based on sample size) 1000+ don't work, or dont get answered.

But with DfT micromanagement, and certain rail companies treating their contract more as a fantasy aspiration, rather than absolute minimum they provide. Good chance someone will have no last train, no working help point, and no available taxis.

 

[Falcon1200]

I’ve been on the railway for 13 years, 11 years in my current role (FGW/GWR) and as far as I remember Christmas Eve has never been a normal timetabled day.

In all my time on the railway Christmas Eve was a normal working day - For rostering purposes, because it is not, and never has been, a Public Holiday. However it was not a normal timetable day, with services winding down earlier than normal. I am slightly surprised then to see trains running as late as GWR promised, but had difficulty delivering, although it does seem that an alternative to the cancelled 2201 from Oxford was actually available....

 

[Haywain]

In all my time on the railway Christmas Eve was a normal working day - For rostering purposes, because it is not, and never has been, a Public Holiday.

That probably depends which part of the railway (company, function etc) you were working in. It wasn't a normal day for rostering in my experience.

 

[irish_rail]

Going to Torquay in February on a Friday to Sunday break.
My possibly wrong perception of stories of driver shortages mean I plan to drive. I will continue to do so until I'm more confident that trains are reliable.
I was a frequent leisure user.

There is not a driver shortage. There is simply a misue of what driver resources GWR has. At Plymouth for example, on the HSS side, they are now seriously short, yes short of work. The problem is inefficient diagramming, where a driver will be used for just a couple of hours driving during a shift, rather than being used productively, say driving for 6 or 7 hours . The issues began about 7 years ago with the idea that it is better to use 4 drivers to cover a trains journey from say Plymouth to London than 1. Tackle this ineffienct rostering and things would start looking a lot better for zero extra cost to the taxpayer.

 

[12LDA28C]

In theory, you can use the station help point.
But a recent survey by ORR estimated (based on sample size) 1000+ don't work, or dont get answered.

But with DfT micromanagement, and certain rail companies treating their contract more as a fantasy aspiration, rather than absolute minimum they provide. Good chance someone will have no last train, no working help point, and no available taxis.

It's not really the Railway's fault if no taxis are available. Of course in this case the OP could have simply caught the next available train but chose instead to curtail their evening's activities, catch an earlier train and then moan about it on an internet forum.

 

[800001]

It's not really the Railway's fault if no taxis are available. Of course in this case the OP could have simply caught the next available train but chose instead to curtail their evening's activities, catch an earlier train and then moan about it on an internet forum.

But as the screen shots go, a lot of other services were showing up as cancelled as well.
There was only one last train departing Oxford after the 2201, that was to Didcot, change for another train to Reading and then change again for another to London.

If you had seen train after train showing cancelled would you have wanted to risk that one last train?

 

[dangie]

… Of course in this case the OP could have simply caught the next available train…. catch an earlier train….

But how far do you go regarding catching an earlier train? The train before? The train before the one before? The train before the one before the one before? The day before?

It’s really not unreasonable that barring accidents, severe weather, impending Armageddon, that the advertised train should turn up.