Ashington Line - Rover Validity

[WesternLancer]

Hi all - issue just cropped up on another thread as to whether North East Rover is valid on the new Ashington Line

see post 98 of this thread

Northumberland Line: trip planning & reports

There are no local services in the Newcastle area on New Years day. This is normal, it’s not a Northumberland line specific issue. Throwback to the days when Newcastle got the best of both worlds, England's official Christmas Bank Holidays and most places unofficially Scotland’s New Year...

www.railforums.co.uk

With National Rail Enquiries (NRES) saying after checking it's not valid.

This answer seems implausible to me, and of course they are sadly not the most accurate source of info IMHO...

I would assume all Rovers that cover the general area in which the line is located are in fact valid. But am I wrong?

Any expert views on the matter?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I would assume all Rovers that cover the general area in which the line is located are in fact valid. But am I wrong?

You might think so, but unless some authoritative source is saying that a particular Ranger/Rover ticket is valid on the Ashington branch line, then other than an ALR, I'd have to assume that it wasn't (other than, perhaps, between Newcastle and Manors).

What do Northern, who run the trains to/from Ashington, have to say on the matter?

 

[WesternLancer]

You might think so, but unless some authoritative source is saying that a particular Ranger/Rover ticket is valid on the Ashington branch line, then other than an ALR, I'd have to assume that it wasn't (other than, perhaps, between Newcastle and Manors).

What do Northern, who run the trains to/from Ashington, have to say on the matter?

This I suppose - but I suspect no Ranger and Rover validity maps have yet been updated to include the line

Rail Rovers Tickets

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

 

[Wallsendmag]

Currently I believe it isn't valid but may well be very soon.

 

[WesternLancer]

Currently I believe it isn't valid but may well be very soon.

Thanks

 

[A S Leib]

I emailed Northern around four weeks ago; they replied to me today, just linking back to the Northern rover site linked in post 3 without any new information.

 

[Harpers Tate]

That's not the only irregularity (if that's what this is) with the NE rover. This is what Northern have to say about it - and it is this same document that is linked at the NRE website:



This is the list of participating TOCs from NRE



Therefore I read that East Midlands Railway are not participating. So, which trains can one use on the depicted route between Gainsborough Lea Rd and Doncaster? It's a long time since I asked EMR and NRE and both denied validity on EMRs services. It all went wrong when the franchises were redrawn and what was Central Trains (who operated that route, and who were participants) ceased to exist. Prior to that time EMT (as they were called) did not operate much if anything at all in this area so there would be no good cause for them to be in it. But it seems that as their coverage expanded into Central Trains territory, they were overlooked.

And then there is Hull Trains who also operate in this area. Not listed as a participant, yet covered by the statement "All Train Operating Companies". Is it valid?

 

[A S Leib]

Not listed as a participant, yet covered by the statement "All Train Operating Companies". Is it valid?

Is having to accept relevant rangers and rovers normally a condition of running open-access services?

 

[Watershed]

Is having to accept relevant rangers and rovers normally a condition of running open-access services?

They're required to participate in the National Rail Conditions of Travel, and since rangers and rovers are issued under the NRCoT, in the absence of a clearly stated TOC restriction I cannot see how a ticket can be refused whilst on a route included in the ranger/rover's validity.

 

[TUC]

I emailed Northern around four weeks ago; they replied to me today, just linking back to the Northern rover site linked in post 3 without any new information.

I do despair of some (not all) staff in such roles in TOCs who seem incapable of understanding anything but the most basic of queries, and incapable of doing anything in response except provide a link to a document.

That's not the only irregularity (if that's what this is) with the NE rover. This is what Northern have to say about it - and it is this same document that is linked at the NRE website:

View attachment 172602

This is the list of participating TOCs from NRE

View attachment 172603

Therefore I read that East Midlands Railway are not participating. So, which trains can one use on the depicted route between Gainsborough Lea Rd and Doncaster? It's a long time since I asked EMR and NRE and both denied validity on EMRs services. It all went wrong when the franchises were redrawn and what was Central Trains (who operated that route, and who were participants) ceased to exist. Prior to that time EMT (as they were called) did not operate much if anything at all in this area so there would be no good cause for them to be in it. But it seems that as their coverage expanded into Central Trains territory, they were overlooked.

And then there is Hull Trains who also operate in this area. Not listed as a participant, yet covered by the statement "All Train Operating Companies". Is it valid?

That is an interesting question. If the map on the NRE website says that the rover is valid on all TOCs' services on the map, but the NRE website also refers to a limited list of participating TOCs, which statement takes precedence?

 

[Kite159]

That's not the only irregularity (if that's what this is) with the NE rover. This is what Northern have to say about it - and it is this same document that is linked at the NRE website:

View attachment 172602

This is the list of participating TOCs from NRE

View attachment 172603

Therefore I read that East Midlands Railway are not participating. So, which trains can one use on the depicted route between Gainsborough Lea Rd and Doncaster? It's a long time since I asked EMR and NRE and both denied validity on EMRs services. It all went wrong when the franchises were redrawn and what was Central Trains (who operated that route, and who were participants) ceased to exist. Prior to that time EMT (as they were called) did not operate much if anything at all in this area so there would be no good cause for them to be in it. But it seems that as their coverage expanded into Central Trains territory, they were overlooked.

And then there is Hull Trains who also operate in this area. Not listed as a participant, yet covered by the statement "All Train Operating Companies". Is it valid?

Or even how can someone use it on the services to Barton on Humber if EMR are not taking part?

 

[Harpers Tate]

Yes, that too.

 

[yorkie]

Hi all - issue just cropped up on another thread as to whether North East Rover is valid on the new Ashington Line

see post 98 of this thread

Northumberland Line: trip planning & reports

There are no local services in the Newcastle area on New Years day. This is normal, it’s not a Northumberland line specific issue. Throwback to the days when Newcastle got the best of both worlds, England's official Christmas Bank Holidays and most places unofficially Scotland’s New Year...

www.railforums.co.uk

With National Rail Enquiries (NRES) saying after checking it's not valid.

This answer seems implausible to me, and of course they are sadly not the most accurate source of info IMHO...

I would assume all Rovers that cover the general area in which the line is located are in fact valid. But am I wrong?

Any expert views on the matter?

Northern can be very stingy when it comes to Rovers and Day Rangers; for example, they won't even allow the East Yorkshire "round robin" ticket to be used on the York to Hull/Bridlington services that go via Church Fenton (in reality, no Guard is going to actually deny anyone travel that way).

Fortunately, the cost of a ticket on the Ashington line is very cheap, so it won't cost much if your Rover isn't accepted.

That is an interesting question. If the map on the NRE website says that the rover is valid on all TOCs' services on the map, but the NRE website also refers to a limited list of participating TOCs, which statement takes precedence?

The wording that is most favourable to the consumer is what prevails, and takes precedent.

 

[Kite159]

Northern can be very stingy when it comes to Rovers and Day Rangers; for example, they won't even allow the East Yorkshire "round robin" ticket to be used on the York to Hull/Bridlington services that go via Church Fenton (in reality, no Guard is going to actually deny anyone travel that way).

Although I wouldn't put it pass some of the more militant guards to start kicking up a fuss if someone uses it on one of the services which goes via Church Fenton. Assuming they bother checking tickets and not just glance at them to get their scan commission

 

[xotGD]

Although I wouldn't put it pass some of the more militant guards to start kicking up a fuss if someone uses it on one of the services which goes via Church Fenton. Assuming they bother checking tickets and not just glance at them to get their scan commission

Why would a passenger from York to Hull know or care whether their train is routed via Church Fenton? They want to get from York to Hull, and they are on a direct train.

 

[Watershed]

Why would a passenger from York to Hull know or care whether their train is routed via Church Fenton? They want to get from York to Hull, and they are on a direct train.

That would certainly be my view, however you do have to take into account that rangers and rovers are generally bought by passengers who are "in the know" somewhat, and a basic level of understanding of rail geography is necessary to use them. The average person is unlikely to know they even exist.

 

[WesternLancer]

That would certainly be my view, however you do have to take into account that rangers and rovers are generally bought by passengers who are "in the know" somewhat, and a basic level of understanding of rail geography is necessary to use them. The average person is unlikely to know they even exist.

All pertinent - tho to their credit Northern are one of the few ToC that do actually properly list them out on line with dedicated website section that is pretty accurate, sell them via TVMs now, and also market them occasionally as well. I suspect as a result some non rail enthusiasts do actually buy them from Northern.

 

[A S Leib]

All pertinent - tho to their credit Northern are one of the few ToC that do actually properly list them out on line with dedicated website section that is pretty accurate, sell them via TVMs now, and also market them occasionally as well. I suspect as a result some non rail enthusiasts do actually buy them from Northern.

I know that marketing for the ones around Cumbria's quite good compared to a lot of other rangers and rovers, but I can't remember seeing any leaflets for e.g. the Cheshire or South Pennines day rangers.

 

[Chiltern006]

Is the Ashington line on the Tyne and Tees ranger?

 

[A S Leib]

Is the Ashington line on the Tyne and Tees ranger?

Northern haven't said yes when asked, and the National Rail website shows the validity map without Ashington (but with Morpeth, which makes its exclusion seem counterintuitive and hopefully something which ends up being changed).

 

[WesternLancer]

Is the Ashington line on the Tyne and Tees ranger?

Not shown on the relevant map on the Northern website iirc

 

[Harpers Tate]

EMR are now listed as participants, as of today.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

EMR are now listed as participants, as of today.

Just to clarify, participants in which product, and what line(s)?

 

[omnicity4659]

Just to clarify, participants in which product, and what line(s)?

North East Rover; but related to the thread subject, Ashington still is not on there.

 

[yorkie]

Why would a passenger from York to Hull know or care whether their train is routed via Church Fenton? They want to get from York to Hull, and they are on a direct train.

Exactly, and if they buy it from a TVM, they'd assume it was valid; the TVMs at York only show key principle stations along the route, e.g. Selby, Brough etc, not the minor stations like Wressle. So no way of knowing that Church Fenton isn't included.

It's just not in the data, so it means that websites such as ours won't be able to retail them for such itineraries (once we support Rovers and Rangers, which we don't yet)

 

[RJ]

That's not the only irregularity (if that's what this is) with the NE rover. This is what Northern have to say about it - and it is this same document that is linked at the NRE website:

View attachment 172602

This is the list of participating TOCs from NRE

View attachment 172603

Is Bearton-on-Humber another new branch served by Northern?

 

[TUC]

Currently I believe it isn't valid but may well be very soon.

It is indicative of a wider malaise in our society that every decision and action are made at a snail's pace. It's fair enough for Northern to say 'we forgot about that. Let's fix it', but there is no reason to not just get on and make what should be a very simple fix.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Is Bearton-on-Humber another new branch served by Northern?

Barton was Northern, is now EMT.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Ashington is now within the validity area of the Tyne and Tees Day Ranger and the North East Rover.

 

[WesternLancer]

Ashington is now within the validity area of the Tyne and Tees Day Ranger and the North East Rover.

Thanks for this very useful update.