Please help- very worried. Stopped by Ticket Inspector for accidently purchasing tickets with Annual Gold RailCard

[ag2025123]

Dear Valued Members,

I would be grateful for your advice regarding an issue I encountered today while traveling from Marylebone Station to Gerrards Cross on Chiltern Railways.

During my journey, I was stopped by a ticket inspector who checked my ticket and found that I had purchased it using the Annual Gold Card railcard. Initially, I had no concerns, as I had bought a valid ticket. However, after scanning it, the inspector asked to see my Gold Card. At that moment, I was completely unaware that I had selected a railcard discount when purchasing my ticket.

When he mentioned the Gold Card, I was confused and asked, What “Gold Card?” He then showed me that I had applied the Gold Card discount at the time of booking. I was completely shocked, as I had no knowledge of what the Gold Card was, and if I had selected it, it was purely accidental. I sincerely apologized and offered to pay the fare difference, but the inspector informed me that I would instead receive correspondence from Chiltern Railways by post.

After reviewing my past purchases, I discovered that for the past four months, I had unknowingly been booking tickets on the Trainline app with the Annual Gold Card discount applied. I recall experimenting with the railcard options to see if they affected my fare. When I noticed that the peak ticket price remained the same, I assumed that my journey was not eligible for a discount and did not investigate further. Unfortunately, I failed to deselect the Gold Card option, not realizing that it does provide discounts but only on off-peak fares.

I understand that this may seem unlikely, but I genuinely had no idea this was happening. I am now extremely worried about the potential consequences of being prosecuted.

I would appreciate your advice on the following points:

1. Should I contact Chiltern Railways now, or wait until I receive official correspondence?

2. Is there any added value of getting a solicitor to get in touch with Chiltern before I have received my letter?

2. What are the chances that my request for an out-of-court settlement will be rejected?

3. Under which section of the law would a prosecution in this case likely fall? Byelaw 18 or the Regulation of Railways Act 1889?

Thank you in advance,

A

 

[methecooldude]

Initially, I had no concerns, as I had bought a valid ticket. However, after scanning it, the inspector asked to see my Gold Card.

So you did not have a valid ticket.

At that moment, I was completely unaware that I had selected a railcard discount when purchasing my ticket.

I dont see any case where anyone reviewing your case would see this to be the truth. Considering you have to scroll pass the "Common" railcards to even select the Gold Card makes this statement questionable

When he mentioned the Gold Card, I was confused and asked, What “Gold Card?” He then showed me that I had applied the Gold Card discount at the time of booking. I was completely shocked, as I had no knowledge of what the Gold Card was, and if I had selected it, it was purely accidental. I sincerely apologized and offered to pay the fare difference, but the inspector informed me that I would instead receive correspondence from Chiltern Railways by post.

Do you have any form of railcard?

After reviewing my past purchases, I discovered that for the past four months, I had unknowingly been booking tickets on the Trainline app with the Annual Gold Card discount applied. I recall experimenting with the railcard options to see if they affected my fare. When I noticed that the peak ticket price remained the same, I assumed that my journey was not eligible for a discount and did not investigate further. Unfortunately, I failed to deselect the Gold Card option, not realizing that it does provide discounts but only on off-peak fares.

How many journeys are we talking?

I understand that this may seem unlikely, but I genuinely had no idea this was happening. I am now extremely worried about the potential consequences of being prosecuted.

I would appreciate your advice on the following points:

1. Should I contact Chiltern Railways now, or wait until I receive official correspondence?

Wait until Chiltern write to you

2. Is there any added value of getting a solicitor to get in touch with Chiltern before I have received my letter?

Normally if you are open and cooperative with them, Chiltern (or their agents) may offer an Out of Court Settlement.

2. What are the chances that my request for an out-of-court settlement will be rejected?

You don't get to request it, other than asking nicely.

The forum experts will be along shortly. But you may wish to start calculating how much the OOC settlement may be. It'll be the Anytime single (return being 2 x singles, with no discount for fares paid or any valid railcard you hold or did hold at the time, for each journey that you attached the AGC discount to + ~£200 as an admin fee (that's the higher end, but its good to be prepared for higher)

 

[SteveM70]

1. Should I contact Chiltern Railways now, or wait until I receive official correspondence?
No, wait for them to contact you (assuming you gave genuine contact details)

2. Is there any added value of getting a solicitor to get in touch with Chiltern before I have received my letter?
No

2. What are the chances that my request for an out-of-court settlement will be rejected?
Probably high, but it'll involve some effort on your part and might be expensive, depending on your previous purchasing history

3. Under which section of the law would a prosecution in this case likely fall? Byelaw 18 or the Regulation of Railways Act 1889?
Most likely the bylaws

 

[AlterEgo]

Dear Valued Members,

I would be grateful for your advice regarding an issue I encountered today while traveling from Marylebone Station to Gerrards Cross on Chiltern Railways.

During my journey, I was stopped by a ticket inspector who checked my ticket and found that I had purchased it using the Annual Gold Card railcard. Initially, I had no concerns, as I had bought a valid ticket. However, after scanning it, the inspector asked to see my Gold Card. At that moment, I was completely unaware that I had selected a railcard discount when purchasing my ticket.

When he mentioned the Gold Card, I was confused and asked, What “Gold Card?” He then showed me that I had applied the Gold Card discount at the time of booking. I was completely shocked, as I had no knowledge of what the Gold Card was, and if I had selected it, it was purely accidental. I sincerely apologized and offered to pay the fare difference, but the inspector informed me that I would instead receive correspondence from Chiltern Railways by post.

Chiltern report for prosecution in these cases instead of selling a new ticket or penalty fare because it is very often the case that people have been claiming discounts to which they are not entitled, whether that's via an expired railcard or just habitually buying the wrong ticket. What will happen is Chiltern will write to you (it can take weeks or even months) asking for your side of the story; they will audit your purchase history and may make reference to it in that letter.

After reviewing my past purchases, I discovered that for the past four months, I had unknowingly been booking tickets on the Trainline app with the Annual Gold Card discount applied. I recall experimenting with the railcard options to see if they affected my fare. When I noticed that the peak ticket price remained the same, I assumed that my journey was not eligible for a discount and did not investigate further. Unfortunately, I failed to deselect the Gold Card option, not realizing that it does provide discounts but only on off-peak fares.

What ticket have you been buying? How much did you pay for it? Was any discount actually applied?

If you use the Trainline app and select a Gold Card, even accidentally, the discount claimed is really clear at the payment stage even if you have missed the earlier clues on the ticket buying page (the home page) and the train/ticket selector page. The point is, whether it's true or not, a train company will have a hard time believing you went four months without once realising you were claiming discounts to which you weren't entitled.

I would appreciate your advice on the following points:
Should I contact Chiltern Railways now, or wait until I receive official correspondence?

Don't contact them. Wait to be contacted.

Is there any added value of getting a solicitor to get in touch with Chiltern before I have received my letter?

No. There is not likely to be a need to contact a solicitor here.

What are the chances that my request for an out-of-court settlement will be rejected?

It depends on whether Chiltern believe your story; they do settle nearly all cases, although it's a bit of a stretch to ask them to believe that you missed all of the prompts for four months. However, where they do settle, they ask for the Anytime fare for each and every occasion the proper fare wasn't paid, and no credit is given for the invalid tickets already bought. This can get expensive; an Anytime Day Return to Gerrards Cross is £23.40.

3. Under which section of the law would a prosecution in this case likely fall? Byelaw 18 or the Regulation of Railways Act 1889?

It could be either; RoRA requires intent which is harder to prove, so they may prefer Bylaw 18 for simplicity.

 

[Haywain]

RoRA requires intent which is harder to prove,

I think multiple purchases would be a very good indicator of intent.

 

[ag2025123]

So you did not have a valid ticket.



I dont see any case where anyone reviewing your case would see this to be the truth. Considering you have to scroll pass the "Common" railcards to even select the Gold Card makes this statement questionable


Do you have any form of railcard?

How many journeys are we talking?

Wait until Chiltern write to you

Normally if you are open and cooperative with them, Chiltern (or their agents) may offer an Out of Court Settlement.

You don't get to request it, other than asking nicely.

The forum experts will be along shortly. But you may wish to start calculating how much the OOC settlement may be. It'll be the Anytime single (return being 2 x singles, with no discount for fares paid or any valid railcard you hold or did hold at the time, for each journey that you attached the AGC discount to + ~£200 as an admin fee (that's the higher end, but its good to be prepared for higher thanks

So you did not have a valid ticket.



I dont see any case where anyone reviewing your case would see this to be the truth. Considering you have to scroll pass the "Common" railcards to even select the Gold Card makes this statement questionable


Do you have any form of railcard?

How many journeys are we talking?

Wait until Chiltern write to you

Normally if you are open and cooperative with them, Chiltern (or their agents) may offer an Out of Court Settlement.

You don't get to request it, other than asking nicely.

The forum experts will be along shortly. But you may wish to start calculating how much the OOC settlement may be. It'll be the Anytime single (return being 2 x singles, with no discount for fares paid or any valid railcard you hold or did hold at the time, for each journey that you attached the AGC discount to + ~£200 as an admin fee (that's the higher end, but its good to be prepared for higher)

Thanks for your reply.

I took around 50-60 journeys between October and February. However, I only purchased single fares and purchased outward and return separately.

The discounted fares only apply to the offpeak (return) tickets, and reduced the price from £9.60 to £6.70.

It might not seem believable (understandably), but I always buy these things last minute and quickly just buy the tickets. As the railcard was selected previously, it remained selected and wasn’t an intentional decision I was taking to always select it.

I really do not mind how much I have to pay as a penalty as it’s a mistake I made, but really hoping I can avoid a criminal conviction.

Chiltern report for prosecution in these cases instead of selling a new ticket or penalty fare because it is very often the case that people have been claiming discounts to which they are not entitled, whether that's via an expired railcard or just habitually buying the wrong ticket. What will happen is Chiltern will write to you (it can take weeks or even months) asking for your side of the story; they will audit your purchase history and may make reference to it in that letter.


What ticket have you been buying? How much did you pay for it? Was any discount actually applied?

If you use the Trainline app and select a Gold Card, even accidentally, the discount claimed is really clear at the payment stage even if you have missed the earlier clues on the ticket buying page (the home page) and the train/ticket selector page. The point is, whether it's true or not, a train company will have a hard time believing you went four months without once realising you were claiming discounts to which you weren't entitled.


Don't contact them. Wait to be contacted.


No. There is not likely to be a need to contact a solicitor here.


It depends on whether Chiltern believe your story; they do settle nearly all cases, although it's a bit of a stretch to ask them to believe that you missed all of the prompts for four months. However, where they do settle, they ask for the Anytime fare for each and every occasion the proper fare wasn't paid, and no credit is given for the invalid tickets already bought. This can get expensive; an Anytime Day Return to Gerrards Cross is £23.40.


It could be either; RoRA requires intent which is harder to prove, so they may prefer Bylaw 18 for simplicity.

Again thank you for your reply.

I purchase the single fare tickets for both outward and return on a daily basis from Gerrard’s cross to Marylebone. The morning fares however have not been discounted although I can see the railcard has been applied to that purchase as well.

The discount has only been applied to the return fares which I take after I finish work and return home for which the fare is of peak. The price has been reduced £9.60 to £3.60.

Would they penalise me for the morning single ticket as well, even though that has not been discounted?

I’m sure you’ve covered this before, but if I do get convicted under ByLaw 18, would that appear on an enhanced DBS check?

How long would it stay on my record for?

Thank you again for your invaluable advice.

A

 

[SteveM70]

I think multiple purchases would be a very good indicator of intent.

Am I right that with Trainline (I’ve never used it) the previous selection is retained for the following transaction, so this could be argued to be one mistake and some carelessness rather than repeated intent?

 

[Snow1964]

Am I right that with Trainline (I’ve never used it) the previous selection is retained for the following transaction, so this could be argued to be one mistake and some carelessness rather than repeated intent?

Yes, it retains same selection (even if the railcard expires), although expiry could be thought of as oversight, much harder to justify a mistake of choosing and selecting a railcard you never owned

 

[ag2025123]

Yes, it retains same selection (even if the railcard expires), although expiry could be thought of as oversight, much harder to justify a mistake of choosing and selecting a railcard you never owned

The issue I did select it to experiment with months before but didn’t see that it had reduced the price.

Unfortunately I just did not unselect it and did not think it would apply to all future bookings.

Has anybody seen a recent case that resulted in prosecution?

 

[chrisjo]

I just tried this booking, and I have to say that at every stage in the purchase process the words 'Annual Gold Card / Gold Record Card' are staring you in the face. It would be nigh on impossible to make a case that you hadn't noticed.

 

[ag2025123]

I just tried this booking, and I have to say that at every stage in the purchase process the words 'Annual Gold Card / Gold Record Card' are staring you in the face. It would be nigh on impossible to make a case that you hadn't noticed

I do agree that I might not be able to make a case but I know myself I would not risk saving £2 on a train fare for the risk of getting caught. I pay much more for parking and would never try to cut corners like this. It really is just a stupid oversight from my part and complete negligence.

When I buy tickets I quickly just scroll to the pay now button and presumed any discount seen was because it was offpeak. Not sure now I was that blind not to see it but unfortunately I have.

I know I probably can’t justify the above and have to accept it will be classed as fare evasion but if I accept full responsibility, have other people in my situation been able to settle out of court?

 

[gray1404]

When you hear back from the railway company post a copy of your letter here with your personal details retracted. Sometimes they use company called Transport Investigations Limited to act on their behalf and they are notoriously stubborn and difficult to deal with so you may need to write to them a couple of times asking to settle out of Court.

However they may handle the matter in the house which would be profitable. We will just have to wait and see.

 

[AlterEgo]

I do agree that I might not be able to make a case but I know myself I would not risk saving £2 on a train fare for the risk of getting caught. I pay much more for parking and would never try to cut corners like this. It really is just a stupid oversight from my part and complete negligence.

When I buy tickets I quickly just scroll to the pay now button and presumed any discount seen was because it was offpeak. Not sure now I was that blind not to see it but unfortunately I have.

I know I probably can’t justify the above and have to accept it will be classed as fare evasion but if I accept full responsibility, have other people in my situation been able to settle out of court?

Yes, it really does not matter if you claim ignorance or accept you were fare evading; Chiltern will see this as the latter.

People do it because they don't actually think they'll get caught, for a start - it took you 50 goes to finally be stopped. And, that they believe the consequences for having the wrong ticket are limited to being Penalty Fared, which at £50 a go, represent the "cost of doing business" for people repeatedly fare evading. If you get stopped once in 50 trips, and have to pay £50 that one time, you only need to have saved a single pound on the previous trips to break even.

You don't need to explicitly admit to being dishonest - even if you were dishonest! However - it is better to simply accept something more banal when responding to them, like "I understand I have wrongly claimed a discount on X occasions".

 

[ag2025123]

Thank you everyone for your guidance. I’ll certainly post the letter here when it arrives.

 

[minderbinder]

Am I right that with Trainline (I’ve never used it) the previous selection is retained for the following transaction, so this could be argued to be one mistake and some carelessness rather than repeated intent?

You are correct that the previous railcard selection is retained on Trainline and does not require manual input for subsequent transactions. Because of that, I can appreciate why someone unfamiliar with Trainline's user interface might consider the your suggested benefit-of-the-doubt explanation to be plausible. But if you are familiar with Trainline, it is really quite implausible.

As you will see from the images below, the selected railcard is visible on the search page. On the results page, the non-discounted prices are struck-through with the discounted prices displayed above. On the payment page, immediately above the "pay now" button there is a "your savings" section with the relevant railcard and discount amount explicitly stated. The digital ticket, of course, also includes the railcard details. And both the booking confirmation page and booking confirmation email begin with the sentence "Don't forget your railcard".

I'm afraid that the claim that one could purchase multiple discounted train tickets over the course many months without being aware that they were doing so due to the Trainline's user interface doesn't pass the smell test for me.

 

[ag2025123]

You are correct that the previous railcard selection is retained on Trainline and does not require manual input for subsequent transactions. Because of that, I can appreciate why someone unfamiliar with Trainline's user interface might consider the your suggested benefit-of-the-doubt explanation to be plausible. But if you are familiar with Trainline, it is really quite implausible.

As you will see from the images below, the selected railcard is visible on the search page. On the results page, the non-discounted prices are struck-through with the discounted prices displayed above. On the payment page, immediately above the "pay now" button there is a "your savings" section with the relevant railcard and discount amount explicitly stated. The digital ticket, of course, also includes the railcard details. And both the booking confirmation page and booking confirmation email begin with the sentence "Don't forget your railcard".

I'm afraid that the claim that one could purchase multiple discounted train tickets over the course many months without being aware that they were doing so due to the Trainline's user interface doesn't pass the smell test for me.

Do you think then the chances of prosecution are higher then?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Do you think then the chances of prosecution are higher then?

Not necessarily, assuming that you engage with the process. Will potentially be expensive though, depending on just how many inappropriately discounted tickets you've purchased and then used. An undiscounted Anytime Day Single from Marylebone to Gerrards Cross (or vice-versa) is currently £11.70. Multiply that by the number of journeys made and add on a likely three figure investigation / administration fee and you could well be looking at well over five hundred pounds to pay. And, unfortunately, there won't usually be any credit given for any fares already (under)paid. Good luck, however, in resolving!

 

[ag2025123]

When you hear back from the railway company post a copy of your letter here with your personal details retracted. Sometimes they use company called Transport Investigations Limited to act on their behalf and they are notoriously stubborn and difficult to deal with so you may need to write to them a couple of times asking to settle out of Court.

However they may handle the matter in the house which would be profitable. We will just have to wait and see.

Not necessarily, assuming that you engage with the process. Will potentially be expensive though, depending on just how many inappropriately discounted tickets you've purchased and then used. An undiscounted Anytime Day Single from Marylebone to Gerrards Cross (or vice-versa) is currently £11.70. Multiply that by the number of journeys made and add on a likely three figure investigation / administration fee and you could well be looking at well over five hundred pounds to pay. And, unfortunately, there won't usually be any credit given for any fares already (under)paid. Good luck, however, in resolving!

Thank you!

 

[Blackpool boy]

The discount has only been applied to the return fares which I take after I finish work and return home for which the fare is of peak. The price has been reduced £9.60 to £3.60.

The discounted fares only apply to the offpeak (return) tickets, and reduced the price from £9.60 to £6.70.

I do agree that I might not be able to make a case but I know myself I would not risk saving £2 on a train fare for the risk of getting caught.

There's something not right in this as your amounts haven't added up and why would you buy singles each way when the anytime day return is a little cheaper? and £2 over 50 -60 journeys sure does start to add up to a nice little saving doesnt it over the course of a year

 

[Mcr Warrior]

why would you buy singles each way when the anytime day return is a little cheaper?

For journeys between London Marylebone and Gerrards Cross, and vice-versa, the undiscounted Anytime Day Return fare isn't any cheaper than 2 x Anytime Day Singles (one each way), is it?

 

[ag2025123]

There's something not right in this as your amounts haven't added up and why would you buy singles each way when the anytime day return is a little cheaper? and £2 over 50 -60 journeys sure does start to add up to a nice little saving doesnt it over the course of a year

It still works out cheaper doing singles tickets:

Single peak outward travel - £11.70
Single offpeak return- £9.50
Total: £21.20

Anytime return is £23.

 

[minderbinder]

Do you think then the chances of prosecution are higher then?

I think you will almost certainly be offered a settlement either way if you apologise and follow the advice from the experienced members on this forum.

I would simply point out that if your account of events appears highly implausible to most members on here, it will likely appear equally implausible to the revenue enforcement team at Chiltern Rail.

That being the case, you might want to consider your forthcoming correspondence with Chiltern as an “honesty test” and how that might affect Chiltern’s attitude towards prosecution.

 

[ag2025123]

I think you will almost certainly be offered a settlement either way if you apologise and follow the advice from the experienced members on this forum.

I would simply point out that if your account of events appears highly implausible to most members on here, it will likely appear equally implausible to the revenue enforcement team at Chiltern Rail.

That being the case, you might want to consider your forthcoming correspondence with Chiltern as an “honesty test” and how that might affect Chiltern’s attitude towards prosecution.

Thank you I do appreciate everyone’s help.

Sorry I didn’t quite understand your last paragraph? Should I not explain the reasons for “accidentally” booking tickets with the railcard or just be outright apologetic and accept it was my mistake?

 

[JordR]

Should I not explain the reasons for “accidentally” booking tickets with the railcard or just be outright apologetic and accept it was my mistake?

To be honest, they're unlikely to believe you. As people have demonstrated above it's quite obvious at several stages in the ticket buying process that a railcard discount is being applied. In any case, whether it's accidental or not doesn't make a difference to whether the offence was committed.

 

[Haywain]

Should I not explain the reasons for “accidentally” booking tickets with the railcard or just be outright apologetic and accept it was my mistake?

The latter. Explanations and excuses (no accusation intended) don't cut it.

 

[minderbinder]

Thank you I do appreciate everyone’s help.

Sorry I didn’t quite understand your last paragraph? Should I not explain the reasons for “accidentally” booking tickets with the railcard or just be outright apologetic and accept it was my mistake?

I would advise against including your account of why you claim to have used a railcard. Regardless of whether it is true or not, it is (a) immaterial and (b) frankly not believable.

 

[ag2025123]

Okay thanks everyone- I will do that and repost here when I get the letter.

 

[Blackpool boy]

It still works out cheaper doing singles tickets:

Single peak outward travel - £11.70
Single offpeak return- £9.50
Total: £21.20

Anytime return is £23.

Apologies - for some reason and i dont know why but NRE was showing it as £19. maybe I had a wrong return time in there.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

To add to what forum members have said, what happens next is Chiltern will write to you in th enext few weeks. The letter will use quite threatening language and say they have received a report, are considering prosecuting but asking for your version of events before thety decide how to proceed. I suggest a short, concide reply that mentions:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Chiltern are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to but they normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation, and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the fare avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you did purchase. In addition Chiltern will want you to pay an admin fee, typically around £150. Chiltern will also search your online ticket purchase history and if this indicates that other journeys have been made with invalid tickets they will want to factor the cost of these tickets into the settlement fee.

My view is there is no need to involve a solicitor at this stage. The case is straightforward and and facts are not in dispute and I would expect Chiltern to settle. If you do not obtain a favourable outcome from Chiltern then that is the point at which I would be looking to engage a solicitor.

There is no point in contacting Chiltern until their letter arrives. They are unlikely to be able to match up anything you do send to them without a case reference number and until the letter comes you don't know exactly what they're going to ask you so there is a risk of incriminating yourself!

When it arrives, upload a redacted copy of Chiltern's letter int his thread along with yor draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[ag2025123]

Thank you very much. It’s incredible how there are such kind people in this forum willing to help other people on the internet.

I will do that