LNER trains for Carabao Cup Final (Sunday 16th March 2025)

[Ghostbus]

Apparently LNER have committed to running four trains (two up, two down) for Newcastle United fans wanting to get to the Carabao Cup Final at Wembley stadium on Sunday 16th March 2024, where they face some team called Red United or something.

Newcastle 07.23 07.52
Kings Cross 11.09 11.44

Kings Cross 21.30 22.00
Newcastle 01.24 01.46

They're apparently running non-stop, with 1,215 seats available.

This seems to be a departure from the previous norm, when engineering works north of Darlington on this weekend would have resulted in footy fans just having to make do with the limited LNER trains and no Lumo servives available.

Presumably from the timings the up trains will run via the Hartlepool diversionary route, while the down trains will be direct. So hopefully the works don't overun! And hopefully nobody locks the station, given those extremely late arrivals.

Presumably you can only take this train if you have a ticket for the final. But how would that work in the booking process? I'm interested to know what the service will be like. What will the alcohol / policing situation be? Will it be a return to the bad old days of British Rail, or will the fans be treated with respect, as paying customers of a publicly owned service?

I wonder what the fares are too. You'd surely not want it to be too high, given you're probably going to need to take taxis at the Newcastle end on both journeys, and it will be an incredibly expensive day all round.

Do you get a free transfer to Wembley? You would presume they would be fully booked, but given how badly football fans have been served over recent years, especially Newcastle (closest Premier League fixture being Man City), and the less than ideal timings, maybe they'll just stick to private cars and minibus/coaches?

If I was going I don't think I'd want to start this early or get back this late. Especially if it's going to be a dry train, with your every move watched like a hawk by BTP's finest, Sunderland Division, with not even a cup of tea or a biscuit on offer.

Would be a bit embarrassing for the Labour North East Mayor Kim McGuinness, who apparently lobbied LNER to put these trains on, if they don't actually run fully booked. Or worse, there's some problem with the booking or running of the services. I'm surprised they can even find the staff, especially if they're being crewed out of Newcastle. What's the Sunday working arrangement at LNER?

 

[800Travel]

Apparently LNER have committed to running four trains (two up, two down) for Newcastle United fans wanting to get to the Carabao Cup Final at Wembley stadium on Sunday 16th March 2024, where they face some team called Red United or something.

Newcastle 07.23 07.52
Kings Cross 11.09 11.44

Kings Cross 21.30 22.00
Newcastle 01.24 01.46

They're apparently running non-stop, with 1,215 seats available.

This seems to be a departure from the previous norm, when engineering works north of Darlington on this weekend would have resulted in footy fans just having to make do with the limited LNER trains and no Lumo servives available.

Presumably from the timings the up trains will run via the Hartlepool diversionary route, while the down trains will be direct. So hopefully the works don't overun! And hopefully nobody locks the station, given those extremely late arrivals.

Presumably you can only take this train if you have a ticket for the final. But how would that work in the booking process? I'm interested to know what the service will be like. What will the alcohol / policing situation be? Will it be a return to the bad old days of British Rail, or will the fans be treated with respect, as paying customers of a publicly owned service?

I wonder what the fares are too. You'd surely not want it to be too high, given you're probably going to need to take taxis at the Newcastle end on both journeys, and it will be an incredibly expensive day all round.

Do you get a free transfer to Wembley? You would presume they would be fully booked, but given how badly football fans have been served over recent years, especially Newcastle (closest Premier League fixture being Man City), and the less than ideal timings, maybe they'll just stick to private cars and minibus/coaches?

If I was going I don't think I'd want to start this early or get back this late. Especially if it's going to be a dry train, with your every move watched like a hawk by BTP's finest, Sunderland Division, with not even a cup of tea or a biscuit on offer.

Would be a bit embarrassing for the Labour North East Mayor Kim McGuinness, who apparently lobbied LNER to put these trains on, if they don't actually run fully booked. Or worse, there's some problem with the booking or running of the services. I'm surprised they can even find the staff, especially if they're being crewed out of Newcastle. What's the Sunday working arrangement at LNER?

Looking at Real Time Trains, all the services you’ve listed are running via the Durham Coast Line (Hartlepool diversionary route). Think there is engineering at the time, which would be why

 

[alholmes]

These services are available to book on the LNER website, and presumably other ticketing sites, as normal. They’re not charter trains for supporters only, they’re open to anybody. At time of writing, advanced singles on the morning trains are £88.40, the returns in the evening are currently priced at £129.80 for the first train and £108.80 for the second train. No free transfer to Wembley - just use contactless on the underground. And I suspect it will be policed and treated as a dry train just like any other train between Newcastle and London for a football match.

 

[3RDGEN]

There's also a pair of extra Newcastle - York services on Saturday 15th at 12:20 & 14:20 which call at Northallerton and provide additional options for connections onto London. The 12:20 appears to work another extra at 14:35 back to Newcastle non stop.

 

[Kite159]

These services are available to book on the LNER website, and presumably other ticketing sites, as normal. They’re not charter trains for supporters only, they’re open to anybody. At time of writing, advanced singles on the morning trains are £88.40, the returns in the evening are currently priced at £129.80 for the first train and £108.80 for the second train. No free transfer to Wembley - just use contactless on the underground. And I suspect it will be policed and treated as a dry train just like any other train between Newcastle and London for a football match.

Or passengers can simply buy a super off-peak ticket to Blaydon for less (£91,90)

Although it will be someone brave to book advance tickets for the return leg considering the game can run into extra time/penalties and the time it takes to get onto a train post match. At least in my eyes, especially if you get unlucky and held up for 30 minutes in the queue for Wembley Park and miss the booked train.

 

[yorkie]

Presumably you can only take this train if you have a ticket for the final. But how would that work in the booking process?

You presume wrong.

I wonder what the fares are too. You'd surely not want it to be too high, given you're probably going to need to take taxis at the Newcastle end on both journeys, and it will be an incredibly expensive day all round.

The demand will be so high that LNER will be able to charge high fares and people will pay it.

Do you get a free transfer to Wembley?

You need to specify the destination of 'Wembley Stadium' or 'Wembley Central' or 'London Underground and DLR Zones 1-4' to get a ticket valid to Wembley.

You would presume they would be fully booked, but given how badly football fans have been served over recent years, especially Newcastle (closest Premier League fixture being Man City), and the less than ideal timings, maybe they'll just stick to private cars and minibus/coaches?

No way will all fans stick to cars, minibus and coaches.

If I was going I don't think I'd want to start this early or get back this late. Especially if it's going to be a dry train, with your every move watched like a hawk by BTP's finest, Sunderland Division, with not even a cup of tea or a biscuit on offer.

But many people will do. Others may stay overnight, but that would be a majority.

I don't understand what you mean by no tea or biscuits on offer; I assume it's intended as a joke.

Would be a bit embarrassing for the Labour North East Mayor Kim McGuinness, who apparently lobbied LNER to put these trains on, if they don't actually run fully booked. Or worse, there's some problem with the booking or running of the services.

This sounds very hypothetical!

I'm surprised they can even find the staff, especially if they're being crewed out of Newcastle.

Not everyone likes football, and I would suspect the staff on these trains would be able to watch the game on the ITV website or on TV (I don't know how the rosters will work, but I suspect the crew would travel as passengers from Newcastle in the morning and to London in the evening)

 

[Ghostbus]

You presume wrong.

The demand will be so high that LNER will be able to charge high fares and people will pay it.

No way will all fans stick to cars, minibus and coaches.

Well I guess we'll never know, since these extra trains supposedly put on for football fans can apparently be taken by anyone. And aren't actually extra trains but simply additional trains to the already reduced service as a result of engineering works.

In which case charging high fares to serve high demand created by engineering works, but only after the Mayor asked LNER to put on additional services for football fans not any randomer with cash on the hip, seems entirely unethical for a publicly owned operator.

And the fact Lumo isn't running on the day LNER chose to take advantage of this demand, suddenly seems more relevant.

 

[30907]

Well I guess we'll never know, since these extra trains supposedly put on for football fans can apparently be taken by anyone.

Is that a problem?

And aren't actually extra trains but simply additional trains to the already reduced service as a result of engineering works.

Tue difference between extra and additional escapes me
These trains would certainly not have run but for the football - they are not exactly at peak times for a Sunday.

In which case charging high fares to serve high demand created by engineering works, but only after the Mayor asked LNER to put on additional services for football fans not any randomer with cash on the hip, seems entirely unethical for a publicly owned operator.

The fares are around that of the old super offpeak single, 30p-40p mile - I would pay 36p/mile from Shipley for example. More expensive than Chiltern, I grant you

 

[Ghostbus]

These trains would certainly not have run but for the football - they are not exactly at peak times for a Sunday.

That's the point. They're supposedly for football fans inconvenienced by engineering works, but they have apparently gone on general sale as if the ordinary rules of supply and demand should apply.

These are not extra trains over and above the normal Sunday service, they're two extras to an already reduced service, and only provided by special request of the Mayor.

It says a lot about the railway, the tube and indeed the national stadium that you might actually need such long delay between the trains arriving/leaving King's Cross and the start/finish time of the match.

I'd be very interested to know who would actually use this train rather than a more convenient or cost effective alternative. Hard to imagine anyone makes the trip all the way down to Wembley final on their own. I'd say all travelling fans would know at least one person willing to drive, either as a friend or paying passenger.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

@Paul The Alien, I wonder if you are aware of the history at play here. Back in the early days of GNER Newcastle United reached their first FA Cup semi in years, not too long after those games were moved to Wembley. Naturally the Toon Army was soon buying up Advance tickets for the day in question and it didn't take long for all the quotas of Advances to sell out. This left many looking at full fare tickets and there were many complaints of rip-offs, etc. Indeed such was the fuss that questions were asked in Parliament which led to political pressure being applied on GNER to release more Advance tickets which duly happened.

This situation has occasionally recurred leading to similar issues. What's happening now is simply revived corporate memory leading LNER to seek to avoid bad publicity. As for fans avoiding rail travel, you're kidding right?

 

[Ghostbus]

As for fans avoiding rail travel, you're kidding right?

Leaving the house before 7, getting into a taxi at Sunday rates (also your last expense of the day too), to spend 4 hours on a dry train, sat next to someone who may either be a fellow fan or just a business traveller who likes a deal, and then have to transfer to Wembley, all for the best part of £200? For a game where the most expensive adult match ticket is £150 but could be as cheap as £41?

That this is only going to be an option for maybe 1 in 10 fans actually travelling, sounds about right. There's always 1.

 

[Failed Unit]

If the train makes a profit I don’t think anyone will really care. As others have said the football fans have probably already booked on other services, so this will help rebalance the demand for the ”normal” passengers that can no longer get on the existing services.

Dry trains are no uncommon on football days. In fact certain trains such as the 0955 Aberdeen - London is a dry train even without football (or at least it was last time I used it). If you travel to London to watch Arsenal - Newcastle, you will definitely be on a dry train.

I have known charter trains, such as when Lincoln City got to the play off finals in Cardiff. Central trains put on a charter. Long time ago so not sure if that was at the request of the football club taking some revenue risk or if they did it themselves. It was full and it was dry. I am sure some track bashers were on it, but what harm did they do if they were.

 

[30907]

It says a lot about the railway, the tube and indeed the national stadium that you might actually need such long delay between the trains arriving/leaving King's Cross and the start/finish time of the match.

It says to me: this is when it was possible to resource crews, stock and paths.

 

[Ghostbus]

It says to me: this is when it was possible to resource crews, stock and paths.

I was looking on the bright side for anyone using the services. But yes, that's exactly what it says.

 

[LW84]

And the fact Lumo isn't running on the day LNER chose to take advantage of this demand, suddenly seems more relevant

Doubt Lumo could; something about a lack of wires on the diversionary.

 

[Hadders]

I'd be very interested to know who would actually use this train rather than a more convenient or cost effective alternative. Hard to imagine anyone makes the trip all the way down to Wembley final on their own. I'd say all travelling fans would know at least one person willing to drive, either as a friend or paying passenger.

It's the best part of 300 miles each way to drive it. Parking at Wembley stadium is non-existent.

 

[signed]

maybe they'll just stick to private cars and minibus/coaches?

I don't know how it's done in the UK, but in France, most supporters would just get the fan club-chartered coach service. Some of the bigger ones charter multiple coaches even for 12h cross-country drives.

 

[Grecian 1998]

Dry trains are no uncommon on football days. In fact certain trains such as the 0955 Aberdeen - London is a dry train even without football (or at least it was last time I used it). If you travel to London to watch Arsenal - Newcastle, you will definitely be on a dry train.

A quick internet search shows that certain trains catering for Newcastle fans travelling to London for games were made dry trains in 2019 and 2023, so it isn't unprecedented, but equally doesn't seem to be a default approach AFAICS.

I think it's fairly common for special 'football' trains which wouldn't otherwise run to be made dry trains. GWR put on a special direct service from Exeter to Portsmouth and back in approximately 2013 which was made a dry train, even though a) it was a normal league game; b) there is no rivalry whatsoever between Exeter and Portsmouth; and c) Exeter are not a club (in my admittedly biased opinion) with a significant number of followers who might be 'of regular interest to the authorities'. Others may have similar examples of dry trains in clearly low risk games.

From what I recall, we sold that out fairly quickly, but it was in fairness a 3 coach 158, so not that difficult.

Newcastle fans arriving on the second train have 4.5 hours before the game kicks off. Even allowing for travel on the Tube, that's plenty of time for a sherbet or two.

 

[greyman42]

And I suspect it will be policed and treated as a dry train just like any other train between Newcastle and London for a football match.

Trains are not normally "dry" when Newcastle are playing in London. Them days have gone.

 

[Failed Unit]

I don't know how it's done in the UK, but in France, most supporters would just get the fan club-chartered coach service. Some of the bigger ones charter multiple coaches even for 12h cross-country drives.

That is preferred in the UK. Like many things the stadium are often significant distances from the nearest station.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

There looks to be a football special on.

Realtime Trains | 1Z47 0839 Newcastle to Wembley Central | 16/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 1Z47 0839 departure from Newcastle to Wembley Central on 16/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[DarloRich]

There looks to be a football special on.

Realtime Trains | 1Z47 0839 Newcastle to Wembley Central | 16/03/2025

Real-time train running information for 1Z47 0839 departure from Newcastle to Wembley Central on 16/03/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That will be for club officials, staff , sponsors etc

 

[Sealink]

Just checked fares today

Newcastle to Kings Cross is £98.30
Newcastle to Wembley Central is £97.80 via Kings Cross. On same train from Newcastle as the £98.30 fare.

 

[yorkie]

Just checked fares today

Newcastle to Kings Cross is £98.30
Newcastle to Wembley Central is £97.80 via Kings Cross. On same train from Newcastle as the £98.30 fare.

This is because Newcastle to London Terminals tickets have been "simplified" so that the only options are Anytime or Advance.

However, Newcastle to Wembley Central flow still has Super Off Peak fares available.

The DfT are intending to get rid of Super Off Peak/ Off Peak fares on as many flows as they can possibly get away with, as this allows for "simple" fares which reduce passenger rights and bring in more revenue. LNER are more than happy to go along with this.

Apparently customers prefer to be restricted to one specific train, for a higher price, than be able to take any off-peak service; the latter is deemed to be "too complicated" by the powers-that-be.

However, let's not discuss that here, as we've had threads dedicated to the topic!

 

[Sealink]

Ah, I'd forgotten about that!

Yes, let's let sleeping dogs lie

 

[Ghostbus]

Well it's useful to point out for anyone taking this train who doesn’t usually travel by train.

Just as it's useful to point out Newcastle's chances have dramatically reduced in the last week. Form is off the rails, being unexpectedly beaten at home by Brighton in the FA Cup. Star player Anthony Gordon, said to be a boyhood Liverpool fan, is banned for the final, after a red card against Brighton. And another key first team player Lewis Hall has now been confirmed as being out for the rest of the season, ironically after an an injury picked in the recent away loss against Liverpool.

Despite that loss, Magpie fans would have been confident, since they played pretty well against the Champions elect. Despite not having star striker Isak, they kept Liverpool quiet in general and star player Mo Salah in particular. Newcastle only conceded goals through the sort of sloppy defensive play you're not likely to see in an Eddie Howe managed side playing for a trophy in front of 30,000 screaming Geordies. But now they've lost these two first team players on the left flank, Gordon and Hall, the key Liverpool players Salah and Trent Alexander-Arnold will have a far easier time of it.

And since it appears both are headed out the Liverpool door this season, Salah for a final pay day in Saudi and Arnold off to play for Real Madrid, you would think they're going to be on fire. Stick it to all those Liverpool fans who can't believe anyone would dare to leave their club for any other reason than the club deems them surplus to requirements. Which is most definitely not the case. Take Salah and Arnold out of Liverpool, and a full strength Newcastle team probably batters them at Wembley. C'est la vie.

It's basically almost not worth going now, the football Gods have turned on the black and whites for some reason. Obvious defeat is obvious. The return trip might be pretty depressing, especially if the lack of Gordon and Hall mean Newcastle can't even beat some bunch of amateurs called London West Ham of London down in that London, on Monday night. One of many fixtures where travelling Newcastle fans can't even take a train. They need wins in easy games like that to secure Champions League football next year, their only remaining thing to fight for if they lose this final.

Then again, the football Gods won't take kindly to Liverpool thinking they can just snap their fingers and Newcastle star striker Isak will come running to fill a Salah shaped hole in their goals tally. And Eddie Howe has already proven he's quite the tactician, and a fearless motivator. As a former central defender himself, he likes drawing up creative game plans that keep the likes of Dirk Van Dijk off balance and far from their comfort zone.

It was interesting to see that even without the threat of Isak, in their recent meeting, Liverpool, even at home, were very reluctant to depart from what was an extremely defensive formation, lest Newcastle tear them a new one. You can't really do that in a final. Well you can, but the football Gods don't like it. These are two high speed high scoring teams. The Gods will want to see some action.

Still, I'd not be banking £200 on it. Gods don't have mortgages to pay.

 

[alholmes]

LNER have just put out the following on Twitter / X, so it’s dry trains home for the Newcastle supporters.

https://x.com/lner/status/1900154890606809420?s=61&t=v8jM_B9OBPwJtGB_7WM2Fg

“All northbound departures from #KingsCross after 19:30 on Sunday 16 March will be alcohol-free.

We'll be working alongside @BTP to provide a safe and comfortable journey for all.”

 

[87electric]

That will be for club officials, staff , sponsors etc

Newcastle FC Carabao Cup Train - World Choice Sports

Newcastle FC Carabao Cup Train - World Choice Sports Direct and non-stop return charter train service on 16/03/25. Book online or call us on 0151 424 7998

www.worldchoicesports.co.uk

Available to book by anyone. A charter from “world choice sports“.

 

[DarloRich]

Available to book by anyone. A charter from “world choice sports“.

great news for the Mags - interesting it is straight to Wembley!

There are also 2 Liverpool > London charters

 

[greyman42]

LNER have just put out the following on Twitter / X, so it’s dry trains home for the Newcastle supporters.

https://x.com/lner/status/1900154890606809420?s=61&t=v8jM_B9OBPwJtGB_7WM2Fg

No such alcohol restrictions for Liverpool bound trains as far as i know??