DLR to have free travel across the river Thames

[Taunton]

Unexpected side-issue from the opening of the Silvertown Road Tunnel in April 2025 is the DLR will become free for the sections Island Gardens to Cutty Sark, and King George to Woolwich Arsenal.

Buses are not the only mode of transport getting free fares, as for at least 12 months after Silvertown Tunnel opens, pay-as-you-go customers will have their fares refunded between and including two DLR station pairs: Cutty Sark to/from Island Gardens and Woolwich Arsenal to/from King George V.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...1&cvid=6e8ad24db1874236bceee6973ec2c32f&ei=53

The free cross-river buses have been known for a while, but had not seen the free DLR before. Apparently you still need to touch in/out, it just will not be charged. It's not quite apparent how this works for longer journeys using the tunnels, given the Woolwich tunnel crosses from Zone 3 to Zone 4. Cutty Sark will also be an issue as it's just about to be closed for a lengthy period to fix the escalators, and already TfL are announcing not to use it due to congestion on the stairs, but to go on to Greenwich.

 

[Via Bank]

It’s been part of the “green and fair” package to greenwash the Silvertown Tunnel since it was announced. (That’s not a joke, that’s literally what it’s called.)

 

[stadler]

Unexpected side-issue from the opening of the Silvertown Road Tunnel in April 2025 is the DLR will become free for the sections Island Gardens to Cutty Sark, and King George to Woolwich Arsenal.



https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...1&cvid=6e8ad24db1874236bceee6973ec2c32f&ei=53

The free cross-river buses have been known for a while, but had not seen the free DLR before. Apparently you still need to touch in/out, it just will not be charged. It's not quite apparent how this works for longer journeys using the tunnels, given the Woolwich tunnel crosses from Zone 3 to Zone 4. Cutty Sark will also be an issue as it's just about to be closed for a lengthy period to fix the escalators, and already TfL are announcing not to use it due to congestion on the stairs, but to go on to Greenwich.

How ridiculous and discriminatory that it is for PAYG users only and that you have to touch in and out. So anyone without an Oyster Card or Contactless Card is required to pay for a ticket still. Why not just give free travel to all without any need for touching in and out. On the old Heathrow free zone buses anyone was free and on the current Heathrow free zone trains (EL/HC/HX) everyone is free so why not do it here too.

I am pretty sure these DLR stations have no ticket barriers? So what is stopping TFL from giving unrestricted free travel?

On the cross river buses will you have to use PAYG and touch in and out too? Or will these actually be free to anyone?

 

[Edvid]

The new Silvertown tunnel is now open

The new Silvertown Tunnel is now open. Find out about charging, discounts, exemptions and concessions for local residents, including driving discounts and free bus/DLR journeys

tfl.gov.uk

Bus and DLR concessions to support local residents​

There will also be concessions for local residents to take advantage of the new public transport connections. Local residents will benefit from free pay as you go bus fares on certain routes which serve the boroughs of Greenwich, Newham and Tower Hamlets, for at least 12 months once Silvertown Tunnel opens. These routes include the new express bus service Superloop SL4 and extended route 129 which will go through the Silvertown Tunnel, and the existing route 108 through Blackwall Tunnel.

Pay as you go customers will be able to start and end their journeys at any point along the bus routes, and customers must continue to touch in as they board the bus. To be able to travel on these bus routes, customers must use one of the following valid payment methods:

• Contactless card or device
• Valid concession photocard
• Credit for pay as you go travel on an Oyster card

For both Oyster and contactless, the pay as you go fare will be £0, so no money will be taken from your chosen payment method, (but you will need to ensure your payment method is valid and doesn't have a negative balance).

There are no changes to the Hopper fare or pay as you go fare caps.

There will be no change for customers with valid 60+ London Oyster cards and Older Person's Freedom Passes. Customers will need to present their card/pass to a card reader when boarding as usual and can only use them during valid times. This means that 60+ London Oyster cards and Older Person's Freedom Passes will not be valid on these 3 bus routes on weekdays between 04:30 - 08:59. During these times, contactless or a valid Oyster card can be used and free travel applies as above.

Other zip and concessions cards are valid at all times and can be used as normal.

DLR​

For at least 12 months after Silvertown Tunnel opens, customers using pay as you go for journeys between the following station pairs will have their fares refunded:

• Greenwich/Cutty Sark - Island Gardens
• Woolwich Arsenal - King George V

Refund process​

Contactless pay as you go fares​

Customers must touch in and out at the station as usual, and the fare for the journey will be taken as normal. A refund will automatically be issued to customers' cards in at least* 14 days of completing the journey - no further customer actions are needed.

If a customer doesn't touch in and out correctly for their journey, it will be classed as incomplete, and will not be eligible for a refund.

Oyster card pay as you go fares​

Customers must touch in and out at stations as usual and the fare for the journey will be taken. In at least* 14 days of travel a refund for the journey will be processed. Once the refund has been processed, Oyster card customers will need to touch in on a yellow reader as part of a journey to ensure their refund is loaded onto their Oyster card. They will have up to 4 days to do this.

If a customer misses this 4-day window, they will need to contact customer services on 0343 222 1234 (call charges may apply) to request the refund.

If a customer doesn't touch in and out correctly for their journey, it will be classed as incomplete, and will not be eligible for a refund.

Even though it refers to "local residents" all passengers are eligible for the free PAYG journeys.

[* Not sure if they mean "within" or "after at least"...]

 

[Taunton]

On the cross river buses it will be the same, you need to touch in, just not charged. It is presumably on the DLR because otherwise there could not be revenue checks at the relevant stations.

The buses less so, but I guess deterrence of sleepers riding all night, etc, is one aspect. The fact that the cross-river routes are free throughout their lengthy journeys either side seems likely to lead to problems - at places like North Greenwich station, where there is a high demand up towards Blackheath, at the bus stop there one route, the 108, with the smallest bus, will be free, and the others will charge, and vehicles often turn up together.

 

[Stephen42]

How ridiculous and discriminatory that it is for PAYG users only and that you have to touch in and out. So anyone without an Oyster Card or Contactless Card is required to pay for a ticket still. Why not just give free travel to all without any need for touching in and out. On the old Heathrow free zone buses anyone was free and on the current Heathrow free zone trains (EL/HC/HX) everyone is free so why not do it here too.

I am pretty sure these DLR stations have no ticket barriers? So what is stopping TFL from giving unrestricted free travel?

On the cross river buses will you have to use PAYG and touch in and out too? Or will these actually be free to anyone?

The Heathrow free travel zone for trains you can either use Oyster/contactless or collect a free paper transfer ticket at the stations (paper ticket not available on underground). It's not just walk on without touching in/out and not requiring evidence of your intended journey there either.

Keeping the usual touch in/out rules makes it easier to resume charging and allows tracking how many journeys are made. Travelcards for the wrong zone and 60+/Freedom passes before 9am are the only tickets which would be a pain by the current rules. Many of those users would have a contactless card available even if not what they usually use.

 

[TFN]

Wasn’t this amended to include Greenwich station as Cutty Sark has no working escalators?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How ridiculous and discriminatory that it is for PAYG users only and that you have to touch in and out. So anyone without an Oyster Card or Contactless Card is required to pay for a ticket still.

Who are these people using public transport in outer London with no Oyster or contactless card and no Travelcard? They probably don't exist, particularly given that that is the only way to pay for bus travel in London.

 

[AlterEgo]

I am pretty sure these DLR stations have no ticket barriers? So what is stopping TFL from giving unrestricted free travel?

The fact they can’t tell where someone has travelled from on a revenue inspection.

 

[stadler]

Who are these people using public transport in outer London with no Oyster or contactless card and no Travelcard? They probably don't exist, particularly given that that is the only way to pay for bus travel in London.

It will be a very small percentage but they definitely exist. Some people continue to buy paper single and return tickets for the London Underground or Docklands Light Railway or National Rail for local London journeys. I know it is definitely a very tiny percentage but they do exist. Just because it is a tiny percentage we should not forget about these people. Also you can still purchase bus saver tickets for TFL buses. I purchase and use those bus saver tickets in London regularly. Many people with those may not have an oyster card or contactless card.

The fact they can’t tell where someone has travelled from on a revenue inspection.

Neither could they tell where someone had travelled from at Heathrow before they installed barriers and it worked fine. Before the barriers were installed at Heathrow there was no way of telling and they just simply avoided revenue checks there. The solution is to not do revenue checks at those free zone stations on the DLR before and after the river. Do them onboard DLR trains before and after the free zone and at the first and last stations outside of the free zone.

 

[kraiken]

Wasn’t this amended to include Greenwich station as Cutty Sark has no working escalators?

I found this from the current list of concessions:

• Bus concessions for local residents on the new Superloop SL4, the extended route 129 and route 108
• DLR concessions for local residents between Greenwich/Cutty Sark - Island Gardens and Woolwich Arsenal - King George V

 

[alholmes]

Very strange, in particular for bus 108. There are no plans to increase frequency / capacity; the buses are already very well loaded through the tunnel (sometimes full and standing); and I doubt there are many passenger journeys on the 108 which will switch to the Silvertown tunnel when it opens.

Additionally, many passenger journeys on the 108 never go through the tunnel. We’re going to have the bizarre situation for people from my nearby bus stop, travelling from Bow Church to Stratford, that will have to pay on the 25 and 425, but can travel free on the 108 (I know the 108 goes to Stratford International, but if I’m travelling to Westfield or Stratford station I’d just take the first bus regardless).

It will be a very small percentage but they definitely exist. Some people continue to buy paper single and return tickets for the London Underground or Docklands Light Railway or National Rail for local London journeys. I know it is definitely a very tiny percentage but they do exist. Just because it is a tiny percentage we should not forget about these people.

But do they really exist? I saw a couple, in their 30s I’d guess, clutching their single paper tickets from West India Quay to Pudding Mill Lane. I commented that I hadn’t seen anyone with a paper tickets from from a DLR machine for years - they were completely unaware they could have used their contactless cards (which they’d actually used to buy the tickets at £6.70 each), to just tap in and tap out at a much lower price. Hopefully they saved some £s on their return trip later.

Apart from them, I cannot recall seeing anyone on the DLR with paper tickets purchased from a DLR or LU machine for many years, and I use the DLR most days.

 

[Via Bank]

The buses less so, but I guess deterrence of sleepers riding all night, etc, is one aspect. The fact that the cross-river routes are free throughout their lengthy journeys either side seems likely to lead to problems - at places like North Greenwich station, where there is a high demand up towards Blackheath, at the bus stop there one route, the 108, with the smallest bus, will be free, and the others will charge, and vehicles often turn up together.

It's almost as if they haven't really thought it through and are scrambling to say "we've done something green! we've done something green!" as they prepare to open their new motorway tunnel

 

[Joe Paxton]

It's almost as if they haven't really thought it through and are scrambling to say "we've done something green! we've done something green!" as they prepare to open their new motorway tunnel

As you said earlier, these plans have been known about for a long time.

(And it's an interesting "motorway" - what with one of the two lanes being limited to buses and HGVs!)

 

[jumble]

Who are these people using public transport in outer London with no Oyster or contactless card and no Travelcard? They probably don't exist, particularly given that that is the only way to pay for bus travel in London.

Come to Rayners Lane where the barrier staff are more often than not ensconced in the old ticket office and you will will soon meet them as they force their way through the wide gate or just tell the bus driver they lost their pass

 

[Bletchleyite]

Come to Rayners Lane where the barrier staff are more often than not ensconced in the old ticket office and you will will soon meet them as they force their way through the wide gate or just tell the bus driver they lost their pass

I don't think I'd really put fare dodgers (who will dodge fares regardless of the methods by which one might be able to pay for them) into the same bracket as people who still use Bus Savers and the likes (must admit I didn't know those still existed; they must surely not have long left for this world).

As for actual paper single tickets they're so punitively priced that I'm amazed anyone still uses them. Isn't it a flat eight quid or something like that? People of limited means would absolutely get Oyster.

 

[sprunt]

Bus Savers and the likes (must admit I didn't know those still existed; they must surely not have long left for this world).

Looking at this it seems like they're typically bought by organisations rather than individuals, perhaps small businesses whose staff might need to make bus journeys as part of their jobs - it's probably less admin to buy a load of saver tickets and give them out as required than have people pay for themselves and claim exes.

 

[Taunton]

As for actual paper single tickets they're so punitively priced that I'm amazed anyone still uses them. Isn't it a flat eight quid or something like that? People of limited means would absolutely get Oyster.

Provincial business customer of mine has an accounts team who refuse to reimburse travel expenses when their staff come to London without a paper ticket, having the same approach everywhere. They want a "receipt". Screenshots of payments irrelevant. Their staff comment how wasteful, but no change.

I suspect it's one of a number of revenue requirements TfL didn't consider. Like those with an Oyster who every day go to an Oyster shop and put just £3.50 on for a return bus trip, paid with coins. They haven't got any more cash, let alone credit cards, on them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Provincial business customer of mine has an accounts team who refuse to reimburse travel expenses when their staff come to London without a paper ticket, having the same approach everywhere. They want a "receipt". Screenshots of payments irrelevant. Their staff comment how wasteful, but no change.

This isn't TfL's problem - they have no need, morally nor legally, to provide for this Luddite nonsense. This isn't people of limited means, it's people who are just foolish, paying more than they need due to a silly business policy.

I suspect it's one of a number of revenue requirements TfL didn't consider. Like those with an Oyster who every day go to an Oyster shop and put just £3.50 on for a return bus trip, paid with coins. They haven't got any more cash, let alone credit cards, on them.

This is a perfectly sensible use-case for Oyster and it is intended to be able to work in this way if the user wishes.

 

[Thirteen]

I'm not sure how many people from outer London or just over the border would be unaware of how to use contactless.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure how many people from outer London or just over the border would be unaware of how to use contactless.

I would venture a very round number indeed.

Well, maybe not 0, but very few. And people research the situation before going somewhere, they don't just rock up with a £20 note and wonder why they can't spend it.

 

[scrapy]

How ridiculous and discriminatory that it is for PAYG users only and that you have to touch in and out. So anyone without an Oyster Card or Contactless Card

Oyster cards are available to all, as are contactless cards (yes you may have to jump through a few hoops to get the latter if you don't have an address but it's certainly doable.) So it's not discrimination if people simply choose not to have one of these.

If Oyster cards were only available to men and contactless cards only available to people over 6ft then yes it probably would be discrimination.

 

[DanNCL]

It will be a very small percentage but they definitely exist. Some people continue to buy paper single and return tickets for the London Underground or Docklands Light Railway or National Rail for local London journeys. I know it is definitely a very tiny percentage but they do exist. Just because it is a tiny percentage we should not forget about these people. Also you can still purchase bus saver tickets for TFL buses. I purchase and use those bus saver tickets in London regularly. Many people with those may not have an oyster card or contactless card.


Neither could they tell where someone had travelled from at Heathrow before they installed barriers and it worked fine. Before the barriers were installed at Heathrow there was no way of telling and they just simply avoided revenue checks there. The solution is to not do revenue checks at those free zone stations on the DLR before and after the river. Do them onboard DLR trains before and after the free zone and at the first and last stations outside of the free zone.

Oyster cards are available at the same ticket machines that sell the paper tickets, it is no more difficult to get an Oyster card than it is a paper ticket. If someone chooses to pay for a paper ticket in the free zone instead of getting an Oyster card to travel for free that’s their choice but it’s a silly one.

 

[stadler]

Oyster cards are available to all, as are contactless cards (yes you may have to jump through a few hoops to get the latter if you don't have an address but it's certainly doable.) So it's not discrimination if people simply choose not to have one of these.

If Oyster cards were only available to men and contactless cards only available to people over 6ft then yes it probably would be discrimination.

Oyster cards are available at the same ticket machines that sell the paper tickets, it is no more difficult to get an Oyster card than it is a paper ticket. If someone chooses to pay for a paper ticket in the free zone instead of getting an Oyster card to travel for free that’s their choice but it’s a silly one.

Getting an Oyster Card costs a rip off £7.00 fee plus a minimum top up of £5.00 at the same time. So in total it will cost you £12.00 to purchase an Oyster Card if you do not have one. Buying a paper ticket is cheaper than that.

So i would say this is discriminatory. Anyone who finds themselves at a DLR station without a contactless card and without an Oyster Card will be required to either pay £12.00 to purchase an Oyster Card or pay a cost of £7.00 Single or £14.00 Return for a paper ticket. Yet someone who has a contactless card or already has an Oyster Card can travel for free.

If they gave out Oyster Cards with zero credit at stations for free then it would be fine. Then anyone could just pick up one of those. But unfortunately they do not.

It is rather ridiculous. We have so called free cross river buses and cross river DLR trains but only for those with an Oyster Card or contactless card. They should be looking at the old Heathrow free bus zone and the Heathrow free rail zone to see how such a system can be fairly implemented.

 

[stuu]

Getting an Oyster Card costs a rip off £7.00 fee plus a minimum top up of £5.00 at the same time. So in total it will cost you £12.00 to purchase an Oyster Card if you do not have one. Buying a paper ticket is cheaper than that.

So i would say this is discriminatory. Anyone who finds themselves at a DLR station without a contactless card and without an Oyster Card will be required to either pay £12.00 to purchase an Oyster Card or pay a cost of £7.00 Single or £14.00 Return for a paper ticket. Yet someone who has a contactless card or already has an Oyster Card can travel for free.

If they gave out Oyster Cards with zero credit at stations for free then it would be fine. Then anyone could just pick up one of those. But unfortunately they do not.

It is rather ridiculous. We have so called free cross river buses and cross river DLR trains but only for those with an Oyster Card or contactless card. They should be looking at the old Heathrow free bus zone and the Heathrow free rail zone to see how such a system can be fairly implemented.

Of course if they make ~6 journeys (I can't be bothered to look up the exact fare) while the DLR is free, they will have paid for the Oyster card and the credit, and they will have the Oyster card forever so never need to pay the extortionate price for paper tickets. A win all round

I strongly suspect this is very, very edge case and there will be virtually no one in this position. And if they really don't have any way to do this, they can still walk through the foot tunnels for nothing, which I imagine is what they do now

 

[Lewisham2221]

Getting an Oyster Card costs a rip off £7.00 fee plus a minimum top up of £5.00 at the same time. So in total it will cost you £12.00 to purchase an Oyster Card if you do not have one. Buying a paper ticket is cheaper than that.

So i would say this is discriminatory. Anyone who finds themselves at a DLR station without a contactless card and without an Oyster Card will be required to either pay £12.00 to purchase an Oyster Card or pay a cost of £7.00 Single or £14.00 Return for a paper ticket. Yet someone who has a contactless card or already has an Oyster Card can travel for free.

If they gave out Oyster Cards with zero credit at stations for free then it would be fine. Then anyone could just pick up one of those. But unfortunately they do not.

It is rather ridiculous. We have so called free cross river buses and cross river DLR trains but only for those with an Oyster Card or contactless card. They should be looking at the old Heathrow free bus zone and the Heathrow free rail zone to see how such a system can be fairly implemented.

Oh come on! How many people in the immediate vicinity will have no Oyster/no contactless/no Freedom Pass and use no other public transport in London expect for between those specific station pairs??? Is it even possible to buy a paper ticket for the DLR these days? Pretty sure, last time I was in the area, all the ticket machines are plated over/removed.

 

[Via Bank]

Ultimately, irrespective of how people touch in (or don’t touch in) the free-for-now DLRs/buses are a poor substitute for a modern, step-free pedestrian and cycle crossing. None of these exists east of Tower Bridge, and the Silvertown scheme fails to deliver one.

 

[Mojo]

Neither could they tell where someone had travelled from at Heathrow before they installed barriers and it worked fine. Before the barriers were installed at Heathrow there was no way of telling and they just simply avoided revenue checks there.

Since free travel was launched in Jan 2012 between the Heathrow stations on the Piccadilly line, customers have always needed to use Oyster (or CPC since CPC was launched). If you are referring to the free travel on Heathrow Express / Connect then this isn't really comparable as these modes had (or still do in the case of HEx) staff members on the train to check customers tickets.

 

[Geogregor]

It's almost as if they haven't really thought it through and are scrambling to say "we've done something green! we've done something green!" as they prepare to open their new motorway tunnel

Have you ever seen motorway?

But I agree that plans for free buses on the whole routes, like the 108, look like badly thought through improvisation.

 

[Taunton]

Ultimately, irrespective of how people touch in (or don’t touch in) the free-for-now DLRs/buses are a poor substitute for a modern, step-free pedestrian and cycle crossing. None of these exists east of Tower Bridge, and the Silvertown scheme fails to deliver one.

Come, come. There is a pedestrian tunnel under the river, with lifts at both ends, adjacent to both DLR crossings. At Island Gardens to Cutty Sark I suspect far more walk through the tunnel than take the DLR just between those stops. If you want modern, and despise the foot tunnels because they are 100+ years old, that's just unfortunate.