Trivia: shortest path to reverse a train from a terminus platform

[zwk500]

Brighton? Out towards Hove, reverse towards Preston Park, back into Brighton?

shortest route for Brighton Looks to be up and down the Brighton Main Line via the loop of Brixton, Stewarts Lane, and Tulse Hill.

If wanting to avoid such a long length of the same route being done twice, it'd be out via Hove, Eastleigh, Wimbledon then the connection to Tooting before following the same loop as before and down from Croydon again. However if you wanted to end up back in exactly the same platform it'd need to be no more than a 4-car from the buffers end of platform 3

 

[dgl]

I was thinking about Weymouth and trying to think of where it could do a loop without reversing as I think most turn around options that are the closest would need the train to reverse to get on another line to come back.

 

[Nottingham59]

Nottingham P5 - Sheffield (via Beighton) - Nottingham P5 (via Dronfield)

Are the tracks still in place at Radcliffe Power Station, from Nottingham P5

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I was thinking about Weymouth and trying to think of where it could do a loop without reversing as I think most turn around options that are the closest would need the train to reverse to get on another line to come back.

Would you have to go via Reading and Guildford?

 

[Haywain]

Would you have to go via Reading and Guildford?

How about Yeovil - Westbury - Salisbury - Romsey - Eastleigh?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

How about Yeovil - Westbury - Salisbury - Romsey - Eastleigh?

It doesn't look like you can go from Yeovil to Salisbury at Westbury without reversing.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not at the Rochdale side (although I think there is by Newton Heath depot).
And even if you could use the tram line you then have to go via Huddersfield or Darwen to get back to the platform.

Thanks. Thinking about it, I don't think use of Metrolink would help anyway. So far as I can tell there's no way to "loop" using the two routes across Manchester city centre or anywhere else on the network.

I was hoping to find a clever way of utilising the rule about using other systems... We don't really do loops on our trams though, apart from Blackpool which doesn't have a connection to the wider network. Think there may still be a disused connection at Fleetwood but if my memory serves it required a shunt to access anyway.

Not a booked service, but surely Leeds to Wakefield Westgate, down the line to Kirkgate and then back to Leeds via Woodlesford. There's a few platforms from Leeds you could do that with too.

I suggested that (in the opposite direction, mind) at the top of the previous page.
I selected P13 as a gift to the signallers as it's probably the least awkward to path a train in/out from/to both routes. Your direction works better on that front due to left-hand running putting us on the inner arc of the loop... which as an added bonus probably shortens the journey by a few yards!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Thanks. Thinking about it, I don't think use of Metrolink would help anyway. So far as I can tell there's no way to "loop" using the two routes across Manchester city centre or anywhere else on the network.

If there was a connection at the Rochdale side as well Manchester Victoria and Oxford Road would have much shorter loops.

 

[Haywain]

It doesn't look like you can go from Yeovil to Salisbury at Westbury without reversing.View attachment 178411

Good point - brain fade! OK, Westbury - Swindon - Reading West - Basingstoke.

 

[RobertsN]

How about Yeovil - Westbury - Salisbury - Romsey - Eastleigh?

As mentioned before: Salisbury (P6) to Romsey (then around the Eastleigh/Southampton Central circle), back through Romsey and into P6 at Salisbury. There is/was actually a scheduled train in the early morning that does exactly this.

[Edit]: Runs tomorrow: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y20263/2025-04-16/detailed

 

[DanNCL]

Are there any connections remaining between Network Rail and the Metrolink Oldham Loop line? As such a move is permitted by the OP that could make things interesting, though I haven't tried to map anything out in my head.

Not at the Rochdale side (although I think there is by Newton Heath depot).
And even if you could use the tram line you then have to go via Huddersfield or Darwen to get back to the platform.

This got me thinking about the wider Metrolink network. There are three connections off the network, at Newton Heath, Altrincham and Bury. The latter can be taken out of the equation as that only leads to Rawtenstall, which leaves the connections at Newton Heath and Altrincham. Both require long routes although I think Altrincham is slightly better. From Altrincham you’d go to Chester, then onto the Wirral line and around the loop in Liverpool before going back the way you came.
There’s no means of turning round on Metrolink infrastructure without a reversal which means anywhere without a clear run to the two connections (Altrincham, East Didsbury, Airport, Trafford Centre, MediaCityUK and Eccles) are all impossible.

 

[plugwash]

Thanks. Thinking about it, I don't think use of Metrolink would help anyway. So far as I can tell there's no way to "loop" using the two routes across Manchester city centre or anywhere else on the network.

mmm.

The "oldham loop" enters rochdale from the north, but since it was converted to metrolink, it's connection to the mainline in rochdale was severed.

Metrolink has a connection to the ELR in bury, but a reversal on the ELR is then needed to get out onto the mainline.

 

[Bald Rick]

Meridian Water via Stratford and Lea Jn

The winner, surely

 

[Class15]

Blackfriars terminating platforms via Sutton loop. Not as quick as some others but a reasonably good one.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Thought about Bradford Interchange as a possible short-ish example, but as (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) there's no access onto the Whitehall curve from the (modern) Calder Valley line- so coming from Bramley you'd have to head through Leeds to York, then round the Harrogate loop to then use the Whitehall curve to Woodlesford. Then via Wakefield Kirkgate, Mirfield, Brighouse, and Halifax to get "home".

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Thought about Bradford Interchange as a possible short-ish example, but as (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) there's no access onto the Whitehall curve from the (modern) Calder Valley line- so coming from Bramley you'd have to head through Leeds to York, then round the Harrogate loop to then use the Whitehall curve to Woodlesford. Then via Wakefield Kirkgate, Mirfield, Brighouse, and Halifax to get "home".

Based on what I can see on OpenRailwayMap you can go from Bramley to Woodlesford (Traksy also agrees), so it's just Bradford Int - Bramley - Woodlesford - Wakefield - Brighouse - Halifax - Bradford.

 

[zwk500]

Good point - brain fade! OK, Westbury - Swindon - Reading West - Basingstoke.

If allowing the same route but different tracks, you can do Weymouth by Westbury-Dr Days Jn- Avonmouth-Filton Abbey Wood-Dr Days- Westbury

 

[Bob55G]

Thought about Bradford Interchange as a possible short-ish example, but as (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) there's no access onto the Whitehall curve from the (modern) Calder Valley line- so coming from Bramley you'd have to head through Leeds to York, then round the Harrogate loop to then use the Whitehall curve to Woodlesford. Then via Wakefield Kirkgate, Mirfield, Brighouse, and Halifax to get "home".

I think that there is direct access from the Calder Valley line to the Whitehall curve. I travel into Leeds from Guiseley, then to Huddersfield on a regular basis, and I'm sure that there is a connecting route. Just checked opentraintimes maps and Google maps and it certainly appears to be the case. Saves you the trip via York !

 

[norbitonflyer]

We don't really do loops on our trams though, apart from Blackpool which doesn't have a connection to the wider network.

Croydon does. So Elmers end - Croydon - Elmers End works (there are longer possibilities

Think Kingston Loop would be fine, as while ordinary passenger trains will never go from the same platforms, I believe there are the crossovers to allow them to go from say Waterloo 19 - Wimbledon - Kingston - Richmond - Waterloo 19

Certainly you can, and I have, taken a train from the Windsor side which went via Wimbledon. Most common is when a train from Shepperton has been diverted inbound via Richmond, but is going back via Wimbledon. But a Loop train could do it too.

In my case it crossed from the Down Windsor to the Down Slow using the crossovers near Queenstown Road, but there are other crossing ponts that can be used - the signallers choose whicehever is the least worst option as it affects both fast lines and the up slow.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The winner, surely

Sorry, no. Meridian Water to Stratford by either side of the 'teardrop' is over 5 miles, so a total of materially over 10 miles. The Cathcart Circle from Glasgow Central is shorter in distance and time and available in either direction on a daily basis.

 

[Bald Rick]

Sorry, no. Meridian Water to Stratford by either side of the 'teardrop' is over 5 miles, so a total of materially over 10 miles. The Cathcart Circle from Glasgow Central is shorter in distance and time and available in either direction on a daily basis.

Dash it!

 

[Halish Railway]

I believe that Ilkley’s shortest route is to go via Shipley, Lancaster, Preston, Blackburn, Wakefield Kirkgate and the Whitehall curve to get back onto the Wharfedale line, some 180 miles. Quite a way considering how the interworking around the Shipley triangle means that the units that serve Ilkley change which way they are many times per day.

 

[D365]

Huntingdon P1 (south facing bay) is what I am currently musing.

 

[Flying Claret]

Blackpool (N&S)-Preston- Burnley-Rochdale-Man Vic-Bolton-Preston Blackpool.

Morecambe, Carnforth, Hellifield, Blackburn, preston lancaster.

 

[Class15]

Huntingdon P1 (south facing bay) is what I am currently musing.

Huntingdon - Harringay Park Jn - Gospel Oak - Richmond - Kingston - New Malden - Clapham Junction - Kensington Olympia - Gospel Oak - Harringay Park Jn - Huntingdon?

 

[Flying Claret]

Pompey harbour. Eastleigh, reading, guilford, havant, pompey.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The Manchester bound platform I think the shortest route would have to go via Eccles, Warrington and Northwich.

I think it would actually be quicker (same applies to Manchester Piccadilly, Victoria, and maybe Stalybridge and Bolton too) to go via Buxton (either arriving/leaving via the Northern or Freight line.

For Stockport, via Denton and Ordsall Chord should work.

 

[Julia]

Huntingdon - Harringay Park Jn - Gospel Oak - Richmond - Kingston - New Malden - Clapham Junction - Kensington Olympia - Gospel Oak - Harringay Park Jn - Huntingdon?

Nearly... but the only way back in to Huntingdon P1 without reversal is wrong-line working from St Neots, is that allowed?

 

[Magdalia]

Huntingdon - Harringay Park Jn - Gospel Oak - Richmond - Kingston - New Malden - Clapham Junction - Kensington Olympia - Gospel Oak - Harringay Park Jn - Huntingdon?

Is Huntingdon platform 1 still usable?

Huntingdon - Harringay Park Jn - Gospel Oak

This can't be done in this direction without a double reversal over the Harringay flyover.

Going through the Thameslink core and round the Sutton loop is the obvious solution, but I think this is a shorter route:

Thameslink core-Loughborough Jn-Factory Jn-Olympia-Kensal Green Jn-Willesden Jn-Gospel Oak-Harringay Park Jn

the only way back in to Huntingdon P1 without reversal is wrong-line working from St Neots, is that allowed?

That's a good point! I think it has never been possible to arrive in Huntingdon platform 1 in passenger service, only by reversing in off the up slow line.

The same discussion could have applied to the old Peterborough platform 1, which was available for arrivals and departures, but when that was open, the Canal Tunnel wasn't.

Hornsey do have a route through the core for turning trains, which they have used for turning class 387s. I can't remember exactly what it is.

 

[Haywain]

I think it would actually be quicker (same applies to Manchester Piccadilly, Victoria, and maybe Stalybridge and Bolton too) to go via Buxton (either arriving/leaving via the Northern or Freight line.

Isn't a double reversal required at Buxton to access the Peak Forest line?