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Antisocial behaviour on the railway network

styles

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Whilst I agree generally about the generational misconception of crime getting worse, I do wonder how much is going under-reported these days as people feel reporting it is going to achieve nothing or a lack of faith in the police.
While I do hear this mentioned from time to time, I personally can't remember the last time I, or anyone I know, was the victim of crime and didn't report it somewhere. The main one I can think of not reported to the police has been one family member who has fallen the victim of SMS scams twice. She's informed her bank and had the money refunded, but hasn't needed to contact the police, and I assume (but don't know) that the bank don't routinely inform the police of £80 scam payments. People I know who have had things nicked, burgled, assaulted, etc have reported it, even if they thought it wouldn't do anything.
 
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Horizon22

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While I do hear this mentioned from time to time, I personally can't remember the last time I, or anyone I know, was the victim of crime and didn't report it somewhere. The main one I can think of not reported to the police has been one family member who has fallen the victim of SMS scams twice. She's informed her bank and had the money refunded, but hasn't needed to contact the police, and I assume (but don't know) that the bank don't routinely inform the police of £80 scam payments. People I know who have had things nicked, burgled, assaulted, etc have reported it, even if they thought it wouldn't do anything.

I think this is likely to happen more in London to be fair, where even though often people are told report it regardless of the investigation, people still don't.

Sometimes for things to go in the background (like refunds) they need a crime reference number so people report solely for that reason.
 

Skimpot flyer

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On Friday and Saturday evenings, forget about using the declassified First Class at the rear of Thameslink trains heading south from East Croydon.
You’ll often encounter youths heading back to Crawley, who thankfully alight at Three Bridges.
They know it’s the only spot on the train where they can plug in their phones, have tables to put their drinks on and they sometimes make it impossible to hear yourself think. Multiple short videos being played at full volume on tinny phone speakers makes a very unpleasant environment. Often accompanied by vaping in a confined space!
 

aftv

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On Friday and Saturday evenings, forget about using the declassified First Class at the rear of Thameslink trains heading south from East Croydon.
You’ll often encounter youths heading back to Crawley, who thankfully alight at Three Bridges.
They know it’s the only spot on the train where they can plug in their phones, have tables to put their drinks on and they sometimes make it impossible to hear yourself think. Multiple short videos being played at full volume on tinny phone speakers makes a very unpleasant environment. Often accompanied by vaping in a confined space!

I tend to forget about using Thameslink at all on Saturdays when heading home from The Smoke to Crawley. I tend to make my way to Victoria and plonk myself in the front coach of a Southern train home as far away from any potential antisocial behaviour. When I last used Thameslink to get home from a day out on the 29/03 the staggering amount of youths who were my age or younger running up and down the train at 2345 on a Saturday evening being for want of a better phrase utter gobsh****s rather took me by surprise.

Whenever someone comes and sits opposite me and starts playing their music out loud I have to resist the temptation to ask them to play something the whole coach might like to hear or for them to be any louder in the most sarcastic way possible. Even as a teenager people who are older than me and logic dictates should know better, start playing their music or conversation out loud really grinds my gears.
 

Purple Train

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I tend to forget about using Thameslink at all on Saturdays when heading home from The Smoke to Crawley. I tend to make my way to Victoria and plonk myself in the front coach of a Southern train home as far away from any potential antisocial behaviour. When I last used Thameslink to get home from a day out on the 29/03 the staggering amount of youths who were my age or younger running up and down the train at 2345 on a Saturday evening being for want of a better phrase utter gobsh****s rather took me by surprise.

Whenever someone comes and sits opposite me and starts playing their music out loud I have to resist the temptation to ask them to play something the whole coach might like to hear or for them to be any louder in the most sarcastic way possible. Even as a teenager people who are older than me and logic dictates should know better, start playing their music or conversation out loud really grinds my gears.
Indeed. As you say, there is not only far too high a number of youths - probably a fair proportion younger than me but no way am I going to chance challenging them - generally misbehaving, but there are also lots of adults, who really are old enough to know better, playing music and videos out loud - or taking calls on speakerphone (if you must take it on the train, at least keep it quiet, please!) and then frankly reacting like children whenever they're challenged. I think part of the problem is that they end up either getting lumped together in one group, or only one demographic is acknowledged as a problem, whichever that may be. Far better to conclude that we simply have a broader decline in societal standards and it's not just "the youth of today" or "the working class" or "immigrants" or "entitled old people" or whatever.
 

Bikeman78

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On Friday and Saturday evenings, forget about using the declassified First Class at the rear of Thameslink trains heading south from East Croydon.
You’ll often encounter youths heading back to Crawley, who thankfully alight at Three Bridges.
They know it’s the only spot on the train where they can plug in their phones, have tables to put their drinks on and they sometimes make it impossible to hear yourself think. Multiple short videos being played at full volume on tinny phone speakers makes a very unpleasant environment. Often accompanied by vaping in a confined space!
Good to hear that the Crawley yobs are alive and well. Must be the next generation now. Back in my day, the trains got trashed between Ifield, Crawley and Three Bridges.
 

Lewisham2221

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Do you have any actual evidence for this?

It is a common perception among most generations through the ages that crime is getting worse from one generation to the next.

This perception persists when there is no evidence for it being true, or even when the reverse is true.



This myth isn't recent or confined to the UK; it is an extremely long-standing, worldwide phenomenon.



I do wonder if it's possibly made even worse in the modern era by increased reporting and also social media hysteria.
Completely agree, especially with the point about social media making things seem worse. For example, kids fighting on the way home from school is absolutely nothing new - but now that videos of such fights can spread all over social media, it's created a perception amongst some people that this is a new or significantly worse problem.

Overall, I would say that I don't think antisocial behaviour has got worse as such, but it has changed and to a point become more prevalent, but see below.

I feel like antisocial behaviour has split significantly when compared to previous decades. Serious antisocial behaviour - that which feels threatening - has reduced in quantity (frequency?) but has perhaps become more serious when encountered, i.e a more serious risk of significant violence such as stabbing. Overall though, this sort of behaviour seems to occur less often - you certainly don't seem to hear as much about people being mugged, for example.

On the other hand, I feel like the majority of antisocial behaviour has become less intimidating, less serious perhaps. It's all those annoying things, rather than something that actually causing much of an inconvenience. Things like feet on seats, playing music/videos out loud, speakerphone conversations and the like. I think this type of behaviour has massively increased, but perhaps also significantly, is often less malicious.

I'm less likely to walk down the street and come across an intimidating group of youths blocking the pavement and refusing to move, forcing me to cross/walk in the road or walk into them and initiate some sort of physical interaction, but more likely to sit in a cafe whilst somebody is playing videos out loud on their phone.

So, overall, I think there is probably more antisocial behaviour (based on what most people on this forum seem to classify as such) but, in contrast with the past, the vast majority is both far less serious and less likely to be of malicious intent whereas serious antisocial has become more serious but - at the same time - less frequent.

(All above based on anecdotal/personal experience)
 

aftv

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Back in my day, the trains got trashed between Ifield, Crawley and Three Bridges.
Trains getting trashed on that section of route dosent hapen too often now. These days its just poeple who seem to forget that they need to buy a ticket and in the case of Crawley just barge through the gateline on the Down platform. Ifield is unstaffed for much of the day now and theres a simply staggering amount of people who just walk straight onto the platform without a ticket even when the relatively quiet Ticket Office is staffed. My only thoughts when the above happens are "I'd love to see your excuse when you get asked forn a ticket on the train or at your destination"

Good to hear that the Crawley yobs are alive and well.
Not guilty considering Crawley is my local :lol: :lol:
 

BrummieBobby

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Agree with most of the above. Mostly though, I find that the majority are so engrossed in their phones that silence reigns. Windows are largely redundant now. I suggest that future units are built with 3 out of 4 carriages just windowless boxes. The 4th has windows and gadget users are banned, leaving it free for those of us who still live in the moment. look out of the windows ( at a tree tunnel probably!) and know where they are at any point on the journey. (those in the box carriages will hear the many, many announcements about station stops or, won't because they are so mesmerised by their stupid phones........good)
Have to agree with this; I was on a Pendolino heading north over Shap Summit last Sunday. It was a beautiful spring evening around 1900, sun setting, an absolutely glorious scene, looking out over the hills, valleys and streams, the odd isolated cottage the only sign of human habitation.

I looked out the window in awe of the scenery, only to look around at the passengers near me, all of whom were oblivious to their surroundings as they were transfixed by their phones...
 

Railguy1

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Agree with most of the above. Mostly though, I find that the majority are so engrossed in their phones that silence reigns. Windows are largely redundant now. I suggest that future units are built with 3 out of 4 carriages just windowless boxes. The 4th has windows and gadget users are banned, leaving it free for those of us who still live in the moment. look out of the windows ( at a tree tunnel probably!) and know where they are at any point on the journey. (those in the box carriages will hear the many, many announcements about station stops or, won't because they are so mesmerised by their stupid phones........good)

Why is someone on their phone not living in the moment? The definition of living in the moment means not worrying about the future (or past).
 
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MP33

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Anti-social behaviour goes back to The London Mob. A large group who used to roam the streets causing trouble. When The Prince Regent separated from his wife, the London Mob supported her. They stopped The Duke of Wellington in the street and would not let him pass, until he said, God Save the Queen. The Duke, knowing her personally, said if you insist. God Save the Queen, and I hope your wives are just like her.
 

Brush 4

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Phone addicts are not in the moment at most events, concerts, theatre, etc. They film it for later but probably only look at a few seconds, because it is too long. Going to beauty spots for a few minutes, then leaving after a selfie to send to someone. Not absorbing the moment, not taking it in. Staring at videos on a train is not being 'there' it is being somewhere else.
 

stuu

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I looked out the window in awe of the scenery, only to look around at the passengers near me, all of whom were oblivious to their surroundings as they were transfixed by their phones...
20 years ago most people would have had books, magazines or newspapers or some other diversion. Why are phones any different (apart from the noise issue)?
 

Jim the Jim

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The problem is antisocial behaviour isn't necessarily criminal and even if it is often isn't the sort of thing people actually report to the police. (Actually perhaps people report it to the police even less nowadays due to belief the police won't do anything anyway.) So it's possible things are getting worse without showing up in the crime statistics.

And if course there is huge variation in the levels of this sort of thing between different places, even between nearby neighbourhoods. Even if there isn't an overall increase that doesn't mean that there aren't significant increases in some areas.
 

vjm1975

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I don’t understand the issue of people looking at their phones or tablets/laptops instead of looking out of windows. How do you know some weren’t looking out before you scanned round the train. It’s no big deal how others are passing their time on a possible long journey. As long as they’re not causing a nuisance it really isn’t an issue.

There is no obligation to look out of the windows at all times. Indeed years back those tablets/ phones could be replaced with books, puzzle books etc to pass the time.
 

CaptainHaddock

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Have to agree with this; I was on a Pendolino heading north over Shap Summit last Sunday. It was a beautiful spring evening around 1900, sun setting, an absolutely glorious scene, looking out over the hills, valleys and streams, the odd isolated cottage the only sign of human habitation.

I looked out the window in awe of the scenery, only to look around at the passengers near me, all of whom were oblivious to their surroundings as they were transfixed by their phones...
It's not just the youngsters who are obsessed with their gadgets. I had a similar experience to you late last year when I was travelling back home from Ribblehead after a walk. Sat opposite me was a well dressed middle aged woman who, while I enjoyed the wonderful views of Ribblesdale, spent the entire journey staring at her laptop, completely oblivious to the countryside we were passing through

I was so intrigued as to what she found so fascinating that I sneaked a look at her screen as I returned from the toilet and guess what she was looking at? A spreadsheet!

Antisocial behaviour? Maybe not. Ignorant? Definitely.
 

vjm1975

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It's not just the youngsters who are obsessed with their gadgets. I had a similar experience to you late last year when I was travelling back home from Ribblehead after a walk. Sat opposite me was a well dressed middle aged woman who, while I enjoyed the wonderful views of Ribblesdale, spent the entire journey staring at her laptop, completely oblivious to the countryside we were passing through

I was so intrigued as to what she found so fascinating that I sneaked a look at her screen as I returned from the toilet and guess what she was looking at? A spreadsheet!

Antisocial behaviour? Maybe not. Ignorant? Definitely.
Out of interest. What is ignorant about it?
It’s no concern of yours or anyone else’s what they are doing if they aren’t disturbing you. Would you have been so bothered if they were reading a book? Or would you prefer them just to stare out of the window for the whole journey?
 

stuu

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It's not just the youngsters who are obsessed with their gadgets. I had a similar experience to you late last year when I was travelling back home from Ribblehead after a walk. Sat opposite me was a well dressed middle aged woman who, while I enjoyed the wonderful views of Ribblesdale, spent the entire journey staring at her laptop, completely oblivious to the countryside we were passing through

I was so intrigued as to what she found so fascinating that I sneaked a look at her screen as I returned from the toilet and guess what she was looking at? A spreadsheet!

Antisocial behaviour? Maybe not. Ignorant? Definitely.
How do you know they don't do that journey every day? And know what it looks like in all seasons?
 

Lewisham2221

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Agree with most of the above. Mostly though, I find that the majority are so engrossed in their phones that silence reigns. Windows are largely redundant now. I suggest that future units are built with 3 out of 4 carriages just windowless boxes. The 4th has windows and gadget users are banned, leaving it free for those of us who still live in the moment. look out of the windows ( at a tree tunnel probably!) and know where they are at any point on the journey. (those in the box carriages will hear the many, many announcements about station stops or, won't because they are so mesmerised by their stupid phones........good)

Have to agree with this; I was on a Pendolino heading north over Shap Summit last Sunday. It was a beautiful spring evening around 1900, sun setting, an absolutely glorious scene, looking out over the hills, valleys and streams, the odd isolated cottage the only sign of human habitation.

I looked out the window in awe of the scenery, only to look around at the passengers near me, all of whom were oblivious to their surroundings as they were transfixed by their phones...

Phone addicts are not in the moment at most events, concerts, theatre, etc. They film it for later but probably only look at a few seconds, because it is too long. Going to beauty spots for a few minutes, then leaving after a selfie to send to someone. Not absorbing the moment, not taking it in. Staring at videos on a train is not being 'there' it is being somewhere else.

It's not just the youngsters who are obsessed with their gadgets. I had a similar experience to you late last year when I was travelling back home from Ribblehead after a walk. Sat opposite me was a well dressed middle aged woman who, while I enjoyed the wonderful views of Ribblesdale, spent the entire journey staring at her laptop, completely oblivious to the countryside we were passing through

I was so intrigued as to what she found so fascinating that I sneaked a look at her screen as I returned from the toilet and guess what she was looking at? A spreadsheet!

Antisocial behaviour? Maybe not. Ignorant? Definitely.

I never realised that not looking out of the window constituted antisocial behaviour :rolleyes:
 

PyrahnaRanger

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Have to agree with this; I was on a Pendolino heading north over Shap Summit last Sunday. It was a beautiful spring evening around 1900, sun setting, an absolutely glorious scene, looking out over the hills, valleys and streams, the odd isolated cottage the only sign of human habitation.

I had a similar experience to you late last year when I was travelling back home from Ribblehead after a walk. Sat opposite me was a well dressed middle aged woman who, while I enjoyed the wonderful views of Ribblesdale, spent the entire journey staring at her laptop, completely oblivious to the countryside we were passing through
I hate to break it to you both, but some people have lived in areas like that all their life and find it rather humdrum, much as a Londoner would find St Paul's or Canary Wharf!

My school* art room was at the foot of Skiddaw, and every week the lesson would start with an exhortation from our art teacher (not a local chap) to take a moment to look at the hills, and admire them as we got them for free, while other paid hundreds of pounds a year to see them. Being spotty oiks, we paid him no heed, as it was just part of the background of life....

*Motto, appropriately enough being Levavi Oculus.
 

bramling

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It's not just the youngsters who are obsessed with their gadgets. I had a similar experience to you late last year when I was travelling back home from Ribblehead after a walk. Sat opposite me was a well dressed middle aged woman who, while I enjoyed the wonderful views of Ribblesdale, spent the entire journey staring at her laptop, completely oblivious to the countryside we were passing through

I was so intrigued as to what she found so fascinating that I sneaked a look at her screen as I returned from the toilet and guess what she was looking at? A spreadsheet!

Antisocial behaviour? Maybe not. Ignorant? Definitely.

For some people, time is quite lacking. Those with demanding hobbies will understand this, especially whose hobbies take up time, and who have to fit them around work. Even just doing a gym programme on top of work doesn’t leave much time.

So much as I quite like looking out of the window on a train journey, if it’s a journey I do regularly then there’s times I need to get on with stuff, even if it’s just managing finances, updating my log of calories, replying to emails or text messages, etc. Just one of those things.

This is all a bit of a side-issue though. Most people manage to use their devices without causing noise. It’s the ones who just have to play inane music or watch videos out loud that are the problem, and these are the ignorants ones.
 

CaptainHaddock

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I never realised that not looking out of the window constituted antisocial behaviour :rolleyes:
How do you know they don't do that journey every day? And know what it looks like in all seasons?

I never realised that not looking out of the window constituted antisocial behaviour :rolleyes:

Out of interest. What is ignorant about it?
It’s no concern of yours or anyone else’s what they are doing if they aren’t disturbing you. Would you have been so bothered if they were reading a book? Or would you prefer them just to stare out of the window for the whole journey?
Because appreciation of the beauty of the natural world is what makes us human and separates us from the animal kingdom. The wonderful thing about the landscape is that you never see the same views twice as the seasons and weather conditions create subtle changes throughout the year. So even if you do the same journey every day there's always something different to see.

If you'd rather spend your journey ignoring the wonders of nature, preferring to mindlessly scroll through "brain rot"* on your phone then you must lead a vapid and joyless existence.



* Brain rot’ - “the deterioration of a person’s mental or intellectual state, especially viewed as the result of overconsumption of online content considered to be trivial or unchallenging.

 

Lewisham2221

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Because appreciation of the beauty of the natural world is what makes us human and separates us from the animal kingdom. The wonderful thing about the landscape is that you never see the same views twice as the seasons and weather conditions create subtle changes throughout the year. So even if you do the same journey every day there's always something different to see.

If you'd rather spend your journey ignoring the wonders of nature, preferring to mindlessly scroll through "brain rot"* on your phone then you must lead a vapid and joyless existence.



* Brain rot’ - “the deterioration of a person’s mental or intellectual state, especially viewed as the result of overconsumption of online content considered to be trivial or unchallenging.

It's rather bold (and ignorant) of you to assume that the use of ones phone (or other electronic device) automatically means the consumption of "brain rot" material.
 

generalnerd

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It's not just the youngsters who are obsessed with their gadgets. I had a similar experience to you late last year when I was travelling back home from Ribblehead after a walk. Sat opposite me was a well dressed middle aged woman who, while I enjoyed the wonderful views of Ribblesdale, spent the entire journey staring at her laptop, completely oblivious to the countryside we were passing through

I was so intrigued as to what she found so fascinating that I sneaked a look at her screen as I returned from the toilet and guess what she was looking at? A spreadsheet!

Antisocial behaviour? Maybe not. Ignorant? Definitely.
You could say the same about London commuters. They may all be on there phones, looking down at the floor or listening to music with there eyes closed, but as a northerner (who sees wonderful sights almost daily, when either driving or on a train) I’m more interested in the stations on the underground than the countryside.

But I wouldn’t complain southerners are ignorant of the marvel of engineering that is the Elizabeth line or the beautiful decor or Baker Street, even though I personally find it unique and pretty.
 

BrummieBobby

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I never realised that not looking out of the window constituted antisocial behaviour :rolleyes:
It obviously doesn't, my statement was more aimed at the fact that an increasing number of people would seemingly rather look at mind rotting idiocy on their phones rather than the beauty of their surroundings.
 

Turtle

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It obviously doesn't, my statement was more aimed at the fact that an increasing number of people would seemingly rather look at mind rotting idiocy on their phones rather than the beauty of their surroundings.
How do you know it was "mind rotting"? It could have been highly educational or even, horror of horrors, work related.
 

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