Weekly season ticket replacement

[Bobzilla]

Hi, I'm Bobz, and I am a rail user. Now, where's my 12 steps...

I recently got relieved of my weekly season ticket for South West Trains, and they won't do anything about it. I understand that this is because the SRA decided not to make them do anything about less than a month season tickets way back in 2002. I'm far from convinced that is the right answer now, not least because I have recently lost one.

I am considering posting a petition for Parliament on this. What chance of getting the required number of signatures?

Thanks

 

[Old Timer]

Lost Weekly season tickets have never been replaced even under BR.

Out of interest why are you expecting SWT to replace the ticket that you were "relieved of" ?

 

[Clip]

So your weekly was stolen/lost and they wont replace it is the gist of what you're saying I gather.

The chances of you getting enough signatures for this are none.

 

[Bobzilla]

Lost Weekly season tickets have never been replaced even under BR.

Out of interest why are you expecting SWT to replace the ticket that you were "relieved of" ?

Why do you expect montly season tickets to get replaced? More importantly, why did the SRA expect monthly season tickets to get replaced back in 2002?

I suspect the reasons why weeklys have never been replaced was down to cost. Now that weeklies for even a normal commute can be up to £100 (and more) I think the cost/benefit analysis has changed somewhat.

As to why I think they should be replaced, its because of the nature of the ticket. It is person specific, so if the TOC is doing its job properly, it should not be able to be used by anyone else (same with a monthly/annual). Therefore, the lost ticket is pure profit. There is no cost to replacing it - its not as if there are any variable costs to issuing a ticket for a train. Therefore, I think it is entirely reasonable to expect that a season ticket of any duration should be replaced.

Why do you think it is unreasonable to expect this?

 

[AlterEgo]

Why do you expect montly season tickets to get replaced? More importantly, why did the SRA expect monthly season tickets to get replaced back in 2002?

I suspect the reasons why weeklys have never been replaced was down to cost. Now that weeklies for even a normal commute can be up to £100 (and more) I think the cost/benefit analysis has changed somewhat.

As to why I think they should be replaced, its because of the nature of the ticket. It is person specific, so if the TOC is doing its job properly, it should not be able to be used by anyone else (same with a monthly/annual). Therefore, the lost ticket is pure profit. There is no cost to replacing it - its not as if there are any variable costs to issuing a ticket for a train. Therefore, I think it is entirely reasonable to expect that a season ticket of any duration should be replaced.

Why do you think it is unreasonable to expect this?

You're asking the railway to put additional time, money and resources into issuing you a replacement.

I believe the current policy is fair, but then it's a case of each individual deciding where to draw the line. I personally wouldn't sign it, but then that's my own opinion.

You need 100,000 signatures on an e-petition to get Parliament to even consider a debate.

 

[Bobzilla]

You're asking the railway to put additional time, money and resources into issuing you a replacement.

Exactly how much time, money and resource does it take to issue a ticket? Or am I really missing something? I needed a new photocard anyway, the old one having been taken with the ticket. The old ticket would only work with the old photocard, no way of cancelling it, but also no way of using it. The new ticket will only work with the new photocard. So, only I can use the old or the new ticket, and the only admin is to issue the new ticket. Where's the issue? Even if you attach a £10 admin charge (which I understand is waived when you give them a crime no) I would still expect the rail company to be in profit. Not as much profit as they are by making me buy a new ticket, of course...

 

[AlterEgo]

Exactly how much time, money and resource does it take to issue a ticket? Or am I really missing something? I needed a new photocard anyway, the old one having been taken with the ticket. The old ticket would only work with the old photocard, no way of cancelling it, but also no way of using it. The new ticket will only work with the new photocard. So, only I can use the old or the new ticket, and the only admin is to issue the new ticket. Where's the issue? Even if you attach a £10 admin charge (which I understand is waived when you give them a crime no) I would still expect the rail company to be in profit. Not as much profit as they are by making me buy a new ticket, of course...

So should the railway replace every sort of ticket?

What about a First Anytime Return, bought on the internet, between London and Newcastle? That's a lot more expensive than most weekly seasons people have.

The line has to be drawn somewhere.

 

[Bobzilla]

So should the railway replace every sort of ticket?

What about a First Anytime Return, bought on the internet, between London and Newcastle? That's a lot more expensive than most weekly seasons people have.

The line has to be drawn somewhere.

A single use ticket does not require anything other than a ticket to validate it. The point about a season ticket is that it is not valid by itself. It requires an identification document (photocard) to validate it. Ergo, it is different.

 

[LexyBoy]

Why do you expect montly season tickets to get replaced? More importantly, why did the SRA expect monthly season tickets to get replaced back in 2002?

The National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC) and TOCs Passenger Charters state that Monthly and longer Seasons will be replaced if lost or stolen (subject to conditions). The NRCoC states that other tickets will not be replaced.

As Old Timer says, the SRA simply defined that the replacement terms should continue as under BR.

I suspect the reasons why weeklys have never been replaced was down to cost. Now that weeklies for even a normal commute can be up to £100 (and more) I think the cost/benefit analysis has changed somewhat.

A single ticket can cost over £100 too, but isn't going to be replaced. They can be though, if you have travel insurance - I would think the same would hold for weekly seasons.

The cost argument doesn't really work for me - whilst tickets are more expensive in real terms, you're still only losing (at most) a week's travel, as would always have been the case.

As to why I think they should be replaced, its because of the nature of the ticket. It is person specific, so if the TOC is doing its job properly, it should not be able to be used by anyone else (same with a monthly/annual).

I would love to see far fewer automatic barriers and more manual ticket checks. However, even if this happened, it's simply not possible for a guard/inspector to check that the ticket and photocard match for every journey - they're going to be more worried about people with no ticket or invalid tickets. For a weekly ticket, the chances of it being picked up are vanishingly small.

Also, many TVMs will issue weekly Seasons with no photocard number on. If you could get a refund on them it would be an open invitation for fraudsters.

Why do you think it is unreasonable to expect this?

I personally don't think it's hugely unreasonable, but it wouldn't be free and it's not in the TOCs interest to do something which would (or could) negatively affect their profits. The DfT is extremely unlikely to do anything about it either, as (a) it would be very low down on their list of priorities, and (b) the TOCs wouldn't like it.

 

[CarterUSM]

I do have sympathy for those who lose their seasons, (unlucky bobzilla), but could you consider insuring it ?

 

[AlterEgo]

A single use ticket does not require anything other than a ticket to validate it. The point about a season ticket is that it is not valid by itself. It requires an identification document (photocard) to validate it. Ergo, it is different.

True.

Be honest though - how often do you think photocards are thoroughly checked? A proper check (of photo, and matching the number with the season ticket, and checking the photo matches the holder) will take about ten seconds.

I travel using a Priv card and the photocard has not been checked thoroughly once, in the last 12 months. I'm talking about someone really looking at it, or stopping me at a barrier.

I'm going to leave the thread at this point as this I can see that this will descend into the usual 'lost ticket' circular argument, which is without consensus.

 

[Bobzilla]

I do have sympathy for those who lose their seasons, (unlucky bobzilla), but could you consider insuring it ?

Thanks. Credit card doesn't cover tickets, home insurance has an excess that is more than the ticket, only thing would be specific travel insurance, and I can't find anything that would insure a season ticket.

 

[LexyBoy]

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, there is the "insurance" option of buying a monthly* ticket. I appreciate that it's more of an upfront cost, but it'll work out cheaper in the long run (assuming you're not on a very short contract or similar).

*Don't buy an exact month, buy to the following weekend or your next holiday. Search the forums for fuller advice.

 

[Bobzilla]

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, there is the "insurance" option of buying a monthly* ticket. I appreciate that it's more of an upfront cost, but it'll work out cheaper in the long run (assuming you're not on a very short contract or similar).

*Don't buy an exact month, buy to the following weekend or your next holiday. Search the forums for fuller advice.

To be honest, I don't use the rail system by choice. A form of claustrophobia and the god-awful South Eastern route between Waterloo East and London Bridge means that a motorbike is a far preferable route for the 55 miles of my commute. Whilst monthly or longer works out cheaper, I don't want to use the trains for any more than a week at a time if I can at all help it. The only reason I am using the trains this week is because of the wind.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I do have sympathy for those who lose their seasons, (unlucky bobzilla), . . .

Me too.
It can be an unexpected shock with hugely disruptive consequences to loose anything. Bad luck.

But I fail to see why the Railways should be responsible for the remedy, (no more responsible than my mobile-service-provider should be responsible if I loose my phone nor the Bank of England if I loose a note nor DVLA if I loose my Driving Licence).
(goes to check all posessions and documents)

There's no reason why a complex and secure ID-based system could not be devised, as a commercial service, if passengers generally wanted to pay for it; but as with all insurance, the cost of cover plus all the administrative overheads will be charged to all users, so once these costs are averaged out over a lifetime's travel, the system will presumably be more expensive than doing without and just occasionally, maybe having to buy a replacement.

The SWT Policy on passengers who realise that they have lost their Season Ticket is here:-
Penalty Fares: Travelling without a valid train ticket

What if I find out I have forgotten my Season Ticket and/or photocard once I have joined my train?
If you realise, before it is requested, that you have forgotten your Season Ticket and/or photocard, you need to approach the on train staff. If a non-authorised collector approaches you, buy a ticket and apply for a refund as detailed above. If an authorised collector approaches you, they will record details of your Season Ticket and issue you with an authority to travel.

You must send this authority to travel together with a clear photocopy of your Season Ticket and photocard to the address detailed on the authority to travel. Failure to return the authority to travel or making a false claim can lead to prosecution.

Clearly in your case, the option of sending a photocopy of the Season Ticket is not possible. Maybe for the future, taking a photocopy as soon as you buy each Season, will be a form of 'insurance' you could use to your advantage? Equally, approaching a Guard at the earliest opportunity could have produced a result more in you favour.

 

[Tracky]

We have all lost things. Its a pain in the backside and can be expensive. I do feel that if you have a ticket valid for 7 days you should just try your best to keep it with you for the 7 days (or 5 if your a monday to friday worker) and if the worst happens and it is lost or stolen just put it down to experience.