If you see something dangerous on a line, who to call?

DavyCrocket · 29 Dec 2023

etr221 said:
My understanding is that if you use either the 999 or 112 emergency numbers, it is treated differently, as an emergency call, rather than it going through the normal switched network.

There is a system "Advanced Mobile Location" (aka Emergency Location Service (ELS)) - for both Apple and Android based mobiles - for them to automatically send your location to emergency services: this (I understand) came out of the mobile industry, and is mandated for new phones - but quite to what extent the emergency services are set up to utilise it I don't know.

I don't what 'location system' the emergency services use (internally) themselves: while I would expect them all to use the same one (the need for which is a lesson the military learnt in World War 1), I'm not sure this is the case.

But whatever it is, I would expect any emergency PSAP (Public safety answering point) - and Network Rail 'Public' Control number I would classify as one - to be able to accept and handle (i.e. have the tools to do, converting it to whatever they want) any widely (or not so widely) used system: starting with British (OS) National Grid, my Satnav gives me about a dozen options for location system/format, perhaps half of which will give valid, sensible locations within the UK (and there are others on my mobile or computer).

I have actually seen the data from an iPhone 999 call and the mapping generated and transposed to what three words was spot on. To a new build house with very few other details.

I’ve also had when mast data said a phone was in a town 15 miles away.

And finally, I have had to call NR emergency line before, for a call to someone on the tracks by a level crossing and on arrival, a very drunk person had tripped over the running rails likely distracted by the one on the track.
They were in the U.K., answered within a minute and must’ve had the internal mapping as was checking against another level crossing. There were some quite long pauses whilst presumably they spoke with national control and the local site (as traction current needed to be switched off)

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james60059 · 30 Dec 2023

43066 said:
Definitely not. If you see something that’s an imminent threat to safety (eg a tree falls onto the tracks, or an unauthorised person starts wandering around on trackbed) then using a lineside phone, identifying yourself as a concerned member of the public and explaining what the issue is, is absolutely the right thing to do.

Just don’t ever put yourself in harm’s way to do so.

A fellow enthusiast got moaned at for doing that at Water Orton about 10 years ago. We saw a couple of trespassers in the fork where the line splits and he used one of the phones on the signal (which controls trains towards Nuneaton), and he got moaned at for it - funny thing was, this enthusiast was also rail staff too (based down South).

If you're in one of the Googlegroups or IO mail groups where people post sightings etc, you could post a message there as there are quite a few rail staff members on them and would know who to contact straight away?.

najaB · 30 Dec 2023

james60059 said:
We saw a couple of trespassers in the fork where the line splits and he used one of the phones on the signal (which controls trains towards Nuneaton), and he got moaned at for it - funny thing was, this enthusiast was also rail staff too (based down South).

Did they get moaned at for using the phone, or for going onto the line/lineside in order to use it (thereby putting themselves in a position of danger)?

Peter Mugridge · 30 Dec 2023

If there is a bridge nearby, the telephone number quoted on the notice on that will always go to the relevant Network Rail control room won't it?

james60059 · 30 Dec 2023

najaB said:
Did they get moaned at for using the phone, or for going onto the line/lineside in order to use it (thereby putting themselves in a position of danger)?

Using the phone, it was accessible from the platform without going onto the line.

The Puddock · 30 Dec 2023

Peter Mugridge said:
If there is a bridge nearby, the telephone number quoted on the notice on that will always go to the relevant Network Rail control room won't it?

Yes.

RGM654 · 31 Dec 2023

The Puddock said:
The NR Helpline (03547 11 41 41) is the 'not quite emergency' number you're asking for. It is the phone number for members of the public who need to speak with Network Rail for any reason, not just emergencies. You can also find a live chat option and a general enquiries contact form on the Network Rail website.

I just went to put that number into my Contacts and saw that I already had Network Rail 0845 748 4950. Is that obsolete?

najaB · 31 Dec 2023

RGM654 said:
I just went to put that number into my Contacts and saw that I already had Network Rail 0845 748 4950. Is that obsolete?

A quick Google of the number returns National Rail rather than Network Rail.

Towers · 31 Dec 2023

james60059 said:
A fellow enthusiast got moaned at for doing that at Water Orton about 10 years ago. We saw a couple of trespassers in the fork where the line splits and he used one of the phones on the signal (which controls trains towards Nuneaton), and he got moaned at for it - funny thing was, this enthusiast was also rail staff too (based down South).

I would certainly hope that any caller identifying themselves as off duty rail staff might be treated with a tad more respect by a signaller than being ‘told off’!

stadler · 31 Dec 2023

RGM654 said:
I just went to put that number into my Contacts and saw that I already had Network Rail 0845 748 4950. Is that obsolete?

That is the number for the National Rail Enquiries call centre in Mumbai in India who answer basic questions about timetables. They would be unable to help with any safety issues. Also the premium rate 08457 484950 number has been replaced with 03457 484950 which is a standard rate landline.

Elecman · 31 Dec 2023

Towers said:
I would certainly hope that any caller identifying themselves as off duty rail staff might be treated with a tad more respect by a signaller than being ‘told off’!

Absolutely if they identify themselves at the start I’ve message as staff wether off or on duty

philthetube · 31 Dec 2023

RedPostJunc said:
One day last summer I was walking beside the Kennet and Avon canal, when I saw a long loaded Mendip stone train passing on the Berks & Hants line. I noticed that a wagon near the end of the train was emitting clouds of (blue ?) smoke. The idea of ringing someone from my mobile entered my head, but had no idea who I could ring. I was sure that when the train passed Newbury, one of the platform staff would notice and take action.

Later that day, I saw on Real Time Trains that the train had failed somewhere near Hungerford, blocking the up line and causing up trains to be diverted via Swindon.

Who could I have rung?

najaB said:
It wasn't an immediate emergency so calling 999 might have been overkill. So the NR hotline would probably be your best bet. Newbury station could also have been a good shout.

I would call 999, I wouldn't know if the issue may lead to a derailment with possible fatal consequences.

I would also, and I expect to be condemned for this, walk down the track, in very serious circumstances to try and stop a train unless I knew that there was no danger of a train approaching.

TreacleMiller · 31 Dec 2023

beermaddavep said:
Perhaps the person that spotted the obstruction should have run down the lineside waving a poppy?
Joking aside, would any of the drivers on here actually slow down if you saw a member of the public frantically waving something red, railway children style?

Yes, depending on the context of the situation. With clear visibility of sections ahead and no obvious issue? No.

On a blind curve in an area with known issues - absolutely.

How would I know they aren't trained in PTS and actually know what they are doing?

najaB · 31 Dec 2023

philthetube said:
I would also, and I expect to be condemned for this, walk down the track, in very serious circumstances to try and stop a train unless I knew that there was no danger of a train approaching.

Let me start the condemnation...

If there's no danger of a train approaching, then there's likely no immediate risk of an accident. So the cardinal safety rule applies: don't turn one potential incident into two!

Unless you are PTS trained you don't go onto the track. Ever.

Even if you are trained and current, you should only go onto the track if it's the only safe way to achieve what you're trying to do.

philthetube · 31 Dec 2023

If I feel that there is a real danger of a train approaching and me going on the track could save lives I would go on the track, this is the only circumstance where I would. I would not go through limited clearance areas and would keep to the cess and use any telephone I find to attempt to contact someone.

If there is no danger of a train approaching then I don't go on the track, ever.

If you see something dangerous on a line, who to call?

DavyCrocket

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james60059

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najaB

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Peter Mugridge

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james60059

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The Puddock

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RGM654

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najaB

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Towers

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stadler

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Elecman

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philthetube

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TreacleMiller

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najaB

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philthetube

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