Trainbike46
Established Member
I guess they could have ordered some ten car 810s that used the full StP platforms, but I agree any lengths other than 5s (that allow doubling up) or 10s (use the entire platform) would have been madness
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Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates
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RailUK Forums
Yep that’s a fair point. Albeit I think the AT300s are only produced in 5s and 9s, certainly based on all the 8XX sub types ordered so far in the UK, so would that have led to an expensive re-engineering?
Ordering enough 5s to eventually enable all IC services to run as 10 cars would have been ideal, I suppose.
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Must be an odd number of cars. 5,7,9 are definetley OK, 11 might be.
5 cars is about right for EMR, it can't fill 9 cars throughout the day.
WesternLancer
Established Member
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- 12 Apr 2019
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- 7,260
We'll I'd tend to order a hot meal whenever I could - but have never worked anywhere where my employer would pay for it. Just happy to pay from my own income.They were the only ones who could afford to buy a cooked meal on-board
I keep see "you can only have five car trains" - is there any reason why they can't be all nine/ten car trains from a physical space aspect (cost being a separate matter)?
For example do they need smaller ones so two services can be berthed at the same platform to operate the current time table?
There are cases in the current timetable when a Sheffield train will depart St Pancras a couple of minutes ahead of a Nottingham train, both from the same platform. Another issue could be maintenance shed space - it doesn’t appear that the new shed being built at Etches Park is long enough for a nine/ten car unit - but of course if trains that length had been specced then I’m sure a bigger shed could have been built (whether at Etches Park or elsewhere).
Nym
Established Member
Depot consideration really shouldn’t have been a thing.
With the fleet growth I can’t help thinking it would have been better for Hitachi to build their own Depot at Chaddesden sidings and leave Etches Park to handle Turbostars and Sprinters
With the fleet growth I can’t help thinking it would have been better for Hitachi to build their own Depot at Chaddesden sidings and leave Etches Park to handle Turbostars and Sprinters
They are currently building 7 car for Avanti.
QSK19
Member
Given that 222s have run in 4, 5, 7, 8 and 9 car formations, surely it must be relatively easy to make, for example, a 6 car 8xx? Not saying that EMR should get a train of that length, of course; but the principle of constructing X number of cars shouldn’t be that much harder to do.
I think that the 810 order being a mix of 5 and 10 (like 810/0 and 810/1) could have been good - a decent number of services will have sufficient demand for 10-car running; and 10 car units would have made more efficient use of space (two driving cabs and noses less) and easier in terms of staffing. But it is what it is - let’s hope that the 810 fleet lives up to the hype.
In any case, it was good to see 810003 make an appearance in a recent YouTube video. Hopefully the ball starts rolling a little quicker and full entry into service will stay at December 2025 - it would be completely and utterly unacceptable if this runs into 2026.
The 222s are self-contained vehicles so are very flexible, the AT300s are not.
The 810s are unique, aside from adding trailers extending them with more motor cars may be difficult.
You can make an 8Xx any length, 6, 7, 8 etc, however when extra coach added it needs all the train management software amending.
And if not a current train length would need further testing regards how the train handles/performance etc
There would be even more complaints on here if they had built 6 and 4 car units to fit the platforms at St Pancras.
QSK19
Member
Yes indeed, which is why I added the bit that reads “Not saying that EMR should get a train of that length, of course”. We all know it would be wholly inappropriate for EMR to run anything other than 5 or 10 car 810s for reasons that we’re all familiar with - I was merely making the point that it should be possible to make an 8xx in any length (in response to another poster saying the 8xx have only come in certain lengths thus far).
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Can only be 810001.
Nottingham59
Established Member
No reason. Timetables can always be recast.
If they had decided to go for full-length trains, the ideal would have been a 9-car 80x with 26m carriages, which at 234m would have fit the platform at St Pancras, and would have had more seats than 2x810.
Nym
Established Member
That would be based on the fleet they were supposed to be getting, and no-one thought to re-check if there'd be enough space.
PG
Established Member
For the benefit of those with failing memories, i.e. yours truly, what fleet were they supposed to be getting?
Nym
Established Member
The 158s were destined to be leaving EMR, not being kept for Liverpool - Nottingham - Norwich.
PG
Established Member
Appreciated, thank you 
Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
loads of operators don't fill their services all day so you have to strike a balance surely
AndrewJM70
Member
By my calculations Sheffield and Nottingham are an average of 2 hours from London so to run one service an hour with 30 minute turns would require 5 sets. Therefore 20 sets out of 33 are required to run a minimum 4x hour service. This leaves 13 sets for maintenance, spare and doubling up. I would have thought a few more would allow far more doubling up flexibility?
Nottingham59
Established Member
It's a bit less from Nottingham: the xx50 takes 1h37m; the xx12 takes 1h43h. And I'm not sure if you need a full 30 minutes at each end. I think the logic was 2x5 sets for Sheffield and 2x4 for Nottingham, giving 18 overall. If half of them are doubled up, that leaves 6 spare out of 33.
K.o.R
Member
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How do ECML trains divert into the MML platforms at STP?
Trainbike46
Established Member
a 9-car 80x fits with 6 meters to spare, and a single 5 also fits. it's a double 5 that wouldn't, hence the slightly shorter 810 vehicles so a double 810 does fit in the platforms
From Doncaster it goes down the MML via Beighton and the Erewash line, but only Hull Trains practices this as they're the only ECML operator that were allowed paths
so why not just the IEP-style mix of 5-car and 9-car variants?
About this, why do the HT 802s, when on diversion, not put the pan up when they reach Kettering/Corby southbound and vice versa? And run on electric London to Corby / Kettering?
I don't know the exact reason. But I'm guessing that it's because between Bedford and London it's 100 max under the wires.
