Old photo location (Cumbria?)

D1537 · 25 Feb 2024

Hello all, clearing out some stuff from an empty house after a death and wondered if these photos could be identified? I don't have a date, though they were with some other photos dating from the early 60s. The only thing I have to go on is that the deceased's relatives worked on the railways in the 50s and 60s, but I don't have a location apart from the fact they were from the Lake District. The 2nd photo appears to be taken from the cab of a dmu similar to that in the first photo, so I'm guessing they're in the same or similar location, but that's just a guess.

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Gloster · 25 Feb 2024

I think the lower one is Bassenthwaite Lakeand the upper one probably is too, but I will keep on delving.

Rescars · 25 Feb 2024

I'm afraid I can't help with the location, though the cutting looks quite distinctive. From what I can deduce from the second photo, the position of the points suggest that the train has just left the station and the photographer was in the rear cab. The signalling implies that there was an up and a down side to the loop rather than it being worked as an up-down main and relief - so not aligned for fast through running. The platform lighting in the first photo is delightful - presumably late night crowds were not anticipated. What a shame the photographer didn't take a snap of the other side of that running-in board!

D1537 · 25 Feb 2024

Thank you both. I have found another one - appears to be the same station as the first photo looking at the hedge - and this time we have a destination blind of Penrith, which would fit with Bassenthwaite Lake?

Deepgreen · 25 Feb 2024

Rescars said:
I'm afraid I can't help with the location, though the cutting looks quite distinctive. From what I can deduce from the photos, the position of the points in the second photo suggest that the train has just left the station and was taken from the rear cab. The signalling implies that there was an up and a down side to the loop rather than it being worked as an up-down main and relief - so not aligned for fast through running. The platform lighting in the first photo is delightful - presumably late night crowds were not anticipated. What a shame the photographer didn't take a snap of the other side of that running-in board!

Yes, this looks like the late '50s/early '60s, and station lighting then didn't have to meet modern CCTV-driven levels. Of course, as films of the era showed, even pitch-black nights looked bright enough to read by!

Gloster · 25 Feb 2024

It definitely seems to fit. The destination blind is actually at the rear of the train, but that would be the front when heading for Penrith. There are plenty of photos of Bassenthwaite Lake on the .disused-stations.org.uk site.

D1537 · 25 Feb 2024

Yes, the images at that website definitely fit the station buildings! Thanks for your help.

Rescars · 25 Feb 2024

Gloster said:
It definitely seems to fit. The destination blind is actually at the rear of the train, but that would be the front when heading for Penrith. There are plenty of photos of Bassenthwaite Lake on the .disused-stations.org.uk site.

A trivial, or perhaps not so trivial, point. I can't see a tail lamp on the train. Were these carried on a lamp bracket, or was one of the fitted lights (central one below the cab window?) used to display a red light, as became common practice with Southern emus? In a mechanically signalled area, a separate tail lamp was presumably easier for signallers to spot and be assured the train was complete before they belled train out of section.

Gloster · 25 Feb 2024

Rescars said:
A trivial, or perhaps not so trivial, point. I can't see a tail lamp on the train. Were these carried on a lamp bracket, or was one of the fitted lights (central one below the cab window?) used to display a red light, as became common practice with Southern emus? In a mechanically signalled area, a separate tail lamp was presumably easier for signallers to spot and be assured the train was complete before they belled train out of section.

Yes, I noticed that: I spent seven years looking for tail-lamps. It may have been that early on the units own inbuilt lights sufficed, although later a tail-lamp was normally fitted, or they might just have detached a second unit and not fitted the new lamp, or they might have simply forgotten, which is particularly possible if it was one of the odd workings that started at Keswick.

Rescars · 25 Feb 2024

I hope there wasn't meant to be a parcel van or similar, which had become detached mid-section!

Gloster · 25 Feb 2024

There is at least one photo on the disused-stations site where the unit does not appear to have a tail-lamp. My guess is that when the DMUs were first introduced a red shade was placed over the marker lights to act as a tail-light, but within a few years it was felt either that the light was too weak or there was risk that an electrical problem would mean that a train had no tail-light, so old-fashioned lamps were to be fitted. A look at the .railcar.co.uk suggests that, if this is correct, the rule would have been changed by 1958.

QueensCurve · 25 Feb 2024

Could the cutting above be Andrews Cutting near Flusco?

High Dyke · 25 Feb 2024

D1537 said:
Thank you both. I have found another one - appears to be the same station as the first photo looking at the hedge - and this time we have a destination blind of Penrith, which would fit with Bassenthwaite Lake?

I would concur with it being Bassenthwaite Lake. There is a photo on the Cumbria Railways website that has a pair of units at the station. The cutting can be seen in the background. The upper picture also correlates with this.

Gloster said:
Yes, I noticed that: I spent seven years looking for tail-lamps. It may have been that early on the units own inbuilt lights sufficed, although later a tail-lamp was normally fitted, or they might just have detached a second unit and not fitted the new lamp, or they might have simply forgotten, which is particularly possible if it was one of the odd workings that started at Keswick.

I couldn't find any information when or whether modifications took place, but did these units have the second bulb fitment in the light units, like other DMU's, that had both a red bulb and white bulb? This negated carrying a separate tail lamp.

Gloster · 25 Feb 2024

High Dyke said:
I couldn't find any information when or whether modifications took place, but did these units have the second bulb fitment in the light units, like other DMU's, that had both a red bulb and white bulb? This negated carrying a separate tail lamp.

I looked through the Driver’s Instructions on the .railcar.co.uk site and there appeared to be nothing about tail-lights, which made me think that fitting a shade might be the guard’s duties, a carefully maintained demarcation. My recollection is that the use of red and white bulbs did not come in until the 1980s.

High Dyke · 25 Feb 2024

Gloster said:
I looked through the Driver’s Instructions on the .railcar.co.uk site and there appeared to be nothing about tail-lights, which made me think that fitting a shade might be the guard’s duties, a carefully maintained demarcation. My recollection is that the use of red and white bulbs did not come in until the 1980s.

Fair enough. I couldn't be certain.

Rescars · 25 Feb 2024

Just looked at my 1960 copy of the General Appendix re Working of multiple unit mechanical diesel trains. "An oil tail lamp must be carried on the rearmost vehicle and a spare oil lamp, properly trimmed, must be carried in the Guard's compartment......" So this photo either shows a train about to have a lamp placed, or someone's going to be in trouble, or there really is my hypothetical parcel van stuck somewhere in the previous section!

Gloster · 25 Feb 2024

Rescars said:
Just looked at my 1960 copy of the General Appendix re Working of multiple unit mechanical diesel trains. "An oil tail lamp must be carried on the rearmost vehicle and a spare oil lamp, properly trimmed, must be carried in the Guard's compartment......" So this photo either shows a train about to have a lamp placed, or someone's going to be in trouble, or there really is my hypothetical parcel van stuck somewhere in the previous section!

I think that it is possible that the requirement to use a tail-lamp may have been introduced a couple of years after the introduction of DMUs, by 1958 at the latest. If correct, this would date the photo to 1955 to 1958.

Rescars · 25 Feb 2024

Gloster said:
I think that it is possible that the requirement to use a tail-lamp may have been introduced a couple of years after the introduction of DMUs, by 1958 at the latest. If correct, this would date the photo to 1955 to 1958.

Presumably that fits well with the whiskers livery.

John Webb · 25 Feb 2024

Re the apparent lack of a tail-lamp, could it be that the train is heading for Penrith, possibly on a Sunday and the line being worked as 'One engine in steam' ?

Gloster · 25 Feb 2024

John Webb said:
Re the apparent lack of a tail-lamp, could it be that the train is heading for Penrith, possibly on a Sunday and the line being worked as 'One engine in steam' ?

Looking at the photos on the .disused-stations site it doesn’t look as though the signalling was set up to allow reversible working. Additionally, there was a level-crossing, so you would have had to have someone in to work that.

John Webb · 25 Feb 2024

Gloster said:
Looking at the photos on the .disused-stations site it doesn’t look as though the signalling was set up to allow reversible working. Additionally, there was a level-crossing, so you would have had to have someone in to work that.

Fair enough!

D1537 · 25 Feb 2024

Some more - for interest only, it is definitely Bassenthwaite Lake!

lakeland844 · 25 Feb 2024

D1537 said:
Some more - for interest only, it is definitely Bassenthwaite Lake!

Bass Lake - 100% The cutting was just to the eastern end but was swept away when the A66 dualling of the mid 70s utilised the old track bed back to Braithwaite

WesternLancer · 26 Feb 2024

D1537 said:
Hello all, clearing out some stuff from an empty house after a death and wondered if these photos could be identified? I don't have a date, though they were with some other photos dating from the early 60s. The only thing I have to go on is that the deceased's relatives worked on the railways in the 50s and 60s, but I don't have a location apart from the fact they were from the Lake District. The 2nd photo appears to be taken from the cab of a dmu similar to that in the first photo, so I'm guessing they're in the same or similar location, but that's just a guess.
View attachment 153143 View attachment 153144

V nice to see the pics - the 1st one esp - whilst not technically great (partly out of focus or depth of field problem?) it presents a most enjoyable period view. The Derby Lightweight. the immaculately clipped hedges and shrubbery, period lanterns, smartly painted platform 'furniture' in view etc.

Remarkable to note that on disused stations website pics in c2010 at least show the station buildings in an advanced state of dereliction, but fundamentally still there, after all the years of closure. One would think that demand for housing in the area would be at a premium and thus it might have got brought back into use. I assume there are reasons this did not happen.

busesrusuk · 26 Feb 2024

It looks like the station building has been restored; the loco IIRC was made for a film and now resides there:

Cafe and Special Events Venue | Bassenthwaite Lake Station | England

Bassenthwaite Lake Station is a café and special events venue. Enjoy breakfast, lunch or afternoon tea aboard the replica Orient Express train.

www.basslakestation.co.uk

WesternLancer · 26 Feb 2024

busesrusuk said:
It looks like the station building has been restored; the loco IIRC was made for a film and now resides there:

Cafe and Special Events Venue | Bassenthwaite Lake Station | England

Bassenthwaite Lake Station is a café and special events venue. Enjoy breakfast, lunch or afternoon tea aboard the replica Orient Express train.

www.basslakestation.co.uk

Thanks for that link - if that is the same building shown derelict on Gallery 4 of this - which it looks as though it is - it's a remarkable and welcome transformation

Disused Stations: Station

and I simply failed to notice gallery 5 (!) which indicates the renovation - tho the focus of the pics here are on the ex film stock loco etc being delivered rather than the building so much. Hope the links work

Disused Stations: Station

Old photo location (Cumbria?)

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