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Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.
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Gloster
Established Member
Just a bit worried that he may announce that freedom of speech and the freedom to demonstrate are so precious that they have to be rationed. Or that the government will decide whether you can demonstrate against the government.
brad465
Established Member
If I was George Galloway, I'd look away now.
(Then again, Sunak's speech has probably fed his ego further and might make protests/demonstrations this weekend even more fiesty).
(Then again, Sunak's speech has probably fed his ego further and might make protests/demonstrations this weekend even more fiesty).
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Howardh
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Well that was all a bit bizarre and bonkers. "The country's divided??" Wonder who divided it, Sunak? "Extremists on all sides"? So you're gonna sack Braverman, Truss, Anderson etc al are you??
Peterthegreat
Established Member
Quite.
brad465
Established Member
Braverman should be put through the Prevent programme IMO, she wouldn't be the least extreme individual to be I'm sure.
WelshBluebird
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Rushi's supporters are those who called judges enemies of the people, who complain constantly about people they want to lock up or deport getting fair legal representation, who want to change the law to allow them to do what courts have stopped them doing, who have very recently introduced restrictions on who can vote, and how you can protest, who tried to mislead people by changing an offical party social media account to mimick a fact checking account and who are now complaining about a democratically elected MP bieng elected (regardless of what you think of Galloway, he was elected by the people of Rochdale), yet of course its "other people" who are a threat to our democracy. It would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous. We need a general election now before they do any more damage.
Howardh
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Hear here!!
1D54
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Why has Sunak waited until now to make such a speech? It sounded nice but not a damn thing will be done. I've had enough of them and decided long ago to bugger off to Reform, I've never registered a protest vote in my 60 years but enough is enough! I'm politically homeless.
It's desperation from Rishi, for some of the reasons you state, it's mainly confected nonsense and lies which he hopes will make people more likely to vote Conservative than otherwise would have been the case. I'm more likely to choose to poke out my eyes with a blunt stick than vote Reform UK, but I'm even less likely to vote Conservative now than I was, which was admittedly unlikely to start with.
EDIT And George Galloway's response was one with which I agree with more!
I think we are increasingly polarised in our opinions, but I believe that threats to our democracy and "extremism" are primarily caused by the actions of the Conservative party in power, starting with Boris Johnson breaking the law to get what he wanted in 2019.
Will what Rishi says make more people vote for him than otherwise? I don't think so. Of course he won't convince me or WelshBluebird or Howardh, or others who commented above.
On reflection I actually find it ironic and a bit sad that I find George Galloway more believable and credible than the prime minister of our country.
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That’s very well put.
Sunak is so out of his depth though at this point that I can kind of understand why he’s come out with this tonight. He’s just not cut out for the job as he’s a political lightweight and he seems to be completely unable to see his own shortcomings.
Gloster
Established Member
I did not watch it (I haven’t a TV), but from the reports it sounds as though he was trying to give the impression of a being a statesmanlike leader of the nation, a bit like Johnson, although not so flamboyantly. However, the rather anodyne delivery and the uninspiring content seem to have produced a feeling of, “Is that all there is?”
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Naming someone in his own party, or Tommy Robinson who was name-checked by someone sharing a platform with Truss at the American wacko conference, would stir up the Tory right wing - an extremist faction he isn't prepared to call out or confront.
1D54
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I don't like where this is going. I have always voted Conservative and it's probably fair to say I'm on the right of the party but 'extremist faction' is taking things well over the top and don't get me started on Tommy Robinson, he is a despicable individual.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
No mystery or weirdness there. He named George Galloway because George Galloway has just been elected an MP, and mentioned Nick Griffin in connection with that Nick Griffin endorsed George Galloway and George Galloway - according to Sunak - has not distanced himself from that endorsement.
In brief, Islam is the religion, adherents of which are Muslims. Islamism is a political ideology that draws its tenets from Islam, someone who has that ideology is an Islamist.
The two are often conflated by people who want to stoke culture wars.
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
I think the distinction there is between merely speaking at the same conference as someone and actually endorsing that person. While acknowledging that the American CPAC group, whose conference Liz Truss spoke at, seems to push a lot of pretty daft/dangerous ideas, I'm not sure you should condemn someone for merely speaking at conference unless they've actually said something bad. I'd hate for intolerance/demands for conformity to reach the point where you can't even talk to people with weird/zany views or be at the same event as those people without being condemned for it.
Having said that, I do think some of Liz Truss's remarks should have been condemned: In particular the her remark about needing a bigger bazooka - the violent imagery there is unfortunate to say the least. But even so, that's not in the same league as the actual extremists calling for or carrying out actual violence, which is what Rishi Sunak was condemning.
You don't need a tv. The full speech is on Youtube here.
Busaholic
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I watched his speech on GB News YouTube channel not just for convenience but also to read all the reactions from the Right, and I can tell you they are furious at being compared to the pro-Palestine crowd and/or Galloway. Their anger is being directed at a Sunak-led Tory party and many more will jump ship to Reform now. Mentioning Nick Griffin probably got a bit closer to the truth of many of their convictions than they'd like to admit. By the way, Galloway in one of his many interviews in the early hours of this morning 'revealed' he'd been contacted by Tice begging him to stand as a Reform candidate and he claimed to have a recording of the conversation.
STINT47
Member
Given the grave threats that Mr Sunak has discovered perhaps he should be given emergency powers to take back control of the country?
It will mean suspending the election for a year or two and restricting the press and people from spreading extremist views but it's a price worth paying if we can stop the country being destroyed by dark forces.
I for one welcome our new protectors and saviour of the nation and hope others will as well.
It will mean suspending the election for a year or two and restricting the press and people from spreading extremist views but it's a price worth paying if we can stop the country being destroyed by dark forces.
I for one welcome our new protectors and saviour of the nation and hope others will as well.
The joke being that what this country needs protecting from the most is Rishi and his party, it's another case of blame everyone else. And blaming the far-right is a bit rich given some of his parties members, though they're completly different arn't they?
Hopefully in the not to distant future the country will get together and our biggest problem will be relegated to the opposition.
Hopefully in the not to distant future the country will get together and our biggest problem will be relegated to the opposition.
birchesgreen
Established Member
I was hoping Rishi would do one of those awkwardly nerdy videos like he did for christmas.
Indeed, much as I detest Galloway, I think Sunak should look in the mirror before rushing to condemn.
In my personal opinion, I would class both Braverman and Anderson as hard-right (perhaps even bordering on far-right in the case of Anderson) and comparable to Galloway in terms of "strange" views. But because both are from the Conservative Party (albeit Anderson temporarily suspended) their views are somehow acceptable.
Does Sunak ever consider that he, personally, has been the architect of a lot of intolerance (of the left, liberals and immigrants) by appointing Braverman and Anderson and by promoting an almost fanatical opposition to immigration while letting the NHS go to waste?
A PM who wants to look big and important before we finally get the chance to vote him out. A man who has done precisely zero for the country other than to stoke the division and intolerance which he claims to be standing against.
And I think that Sunak and Galloway have a lot more in common than either of them would admit. Their views on Gaza might be poles apart, but they are both, in my view, authoritarians who have either directly or indirectly promoted intolerance towards certain groups. They're also both pro-Brexit and small-c conservative on social issues. Opposite sides of the same authoritarian right-wing coin, so to speak.
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Howardh
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Hmm, "dark forces" huh? I have another term for them..."voters"!!
I can see the situation arising where the Tories will do anything to cancel the election and I don't know what anyone including Charles can do to stop them, think civil disorder on a scale not seen in my lifetime would descend.
I don't think they would do that; if that happened the UK would effectively become a dictatorship. As you say the anger towards Sunak and the Conservative Party would be on a scale unseen in modern times. I can literally see people trying to storm Parliament and Downing Street if that happened.
It's all about Sunak wanting to look big and important. Any instability now would be magnified a thousand-fold if they attempted to cancel the election and the Conservative Party would probably become extinct as a result as no-one would vote for them (assuming their attempts to cancel were unsuccessful).
Even Trump didn't use Covid as an excuse to cancel the US election; it'd be Sunak out-Trumping Trump.
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
Agreed - whatever Sunak is, he isn't Trump.
Yes, I can see it happening because they've done it before, they are the Blue Anarchist party and have been since Boris Johnson took over, and they are prepared to break the law to get what they want.
Last time the Supreme Court eventually called them out, but next time they'll find a way to circumvent it "interfering" with their plans.
I don't think it's likely, but I don't think it impossible, which I would have said before 2019.
As I said yesterday, they are going to be annihilated in the next election unless they can change things significantly, either by breaking the law or by subverting the rule of law in a way that convinces voters who would otherwise not vote for them to do so. Pretending that the country is in some way controlled by dark forces, "Islamists" or whatever, and they are the only party which can counter this fabrication is one way of achieving this, but I think (and hope) enough people see through this nonsense.
I agree with much that has been said about "the speech", though I'd also add that nothing about it warranted a sudden announcement for Friday evening. It could have been said in Parliament yesterday or at a convenient time next week, particularly the announcement of yet more legislation that by convention is supposed to be announced to parliament first. I suppose the "issue" is that a parliamentary speech would allow Starmer to give an immediate rebuttal and (in Sunak's eyes, worse) pesky questions from MPs who don't recognise his brilliance and foresight.
From the constant use of choppers and planes, to the more recent parading of his wife as if she was a "first lady", he thinks he's the US president and thinks such addresses are perfectly normal behaviour.
Besides, if it *must* be done from number 10, why did he insist in doing it outside rather than that very expensive press room we paid for a couple of years ago?
From the constant use of choppers and planes, to the more recent parading of his wife as if she was a "first lady", he thinks he's the US president and thinks such addresses are perfectly normal behaviour.
Besides, if it *must* be done from number 10, why did he insist in doing it outside rather than that very expensive press room we paid for a couple of years ago?
Though as I said the consequences, both for the country and the Conservative Party, would be dire if they attempted to cancel. It would be their surest route to extinction.