Joseph T
Member
Irrelevant but hey Superalbs! I love your videos, and thanks for also showing me how to pronounce names properly!I love the suggestion that we should blame the passenger, instead of the cheap and nasty railways.
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Can and will train seats become comfortable again?
- Thread starter Joseph T
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RailUK Forums
Hahaha, thank you no problem.
Ayman Ilham
Member
Hi there! Since you're here, could you do a tier list for modern (meaning after the mid-2010s from the Class 700 onwards) train seats?Hahaha, thank you no problem.
185143
Established Member
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- 3 Mar 2013
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I had no issues at all doing Paddington to Penzance.
And I did that just over an hour after doing an LNER 800 from Aberdeen. All in Standard.
Admittedly I do like the IETs, but that shows how subjective it all is. I'd gladly do the same journey again. Really enjoyed the day, even if I did feel ill for most of the run through Scotland after a rough night on the ferry from Shetland. My only complaint would be the dismal catering on the GWR units. I think the trolley passed by twice on the whole journey, and obviously no buffet car. Had I been doing the journey in the opposite direction, I'd have purchased hot food from the Foodbar for certain. But as was, I made do with a meal deal from Sainsbury's at Paddington.
I do agree with comments that the TfW 197 seats are more comfortable though. Had a few journeys on them back from Holyhead after the overnight ferry back from Ireland, and a good sleep has been achieved each time. I'd say either those and the standard seats fitted to 444s, 185s, 350/1/3/4s etc to be amongst my favourite seats at the moment.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There are better and worse ones. Some have totally collapsed, some are fine. Also depends on passenger weight i.e. how much they compress the cushion.
And how much built-in padding the passenger has
Ayman Ilham
Member
Same here; I found the seats, while not great, were certainly not as bad as most people say they are. The main issue is the fact that they're using seats intended for regional trains in long-distance intercity trains. I suppose they're acceptable with operators such as Transpennine Express, who don't really do journeys over 2-3 hours long anyway. However GWR and LNER, who regularly do journeys well over 4-5 hours long, could definitely do with at least overhauling their seats to be more like those in the TfW 197.
cjmillsnun
Established Member
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I used to think that until the last time I sat in one. It was on the pretendolino from New Street to Euston. Not long after it had entered service so the cushions and covers were fairly new. My back didn’t thank me and the fixed armrests were a pain. I was much happier once I had gone to Waterloo and was on the class 444 back to Portsmouth.
Mike Machin
Member
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- 19 Aug 2017
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- 215
I don't think I have had the pleasure of sitting in a comfortable train seat since the first class REP/4-TC seats disappeared from the Waterloo to Bournemouth/Weymouth line. And to make matters worse today, some trains no longer even have first class of any kind.
IC70s are among the worst seats ever fitted to long distance stock. My opinion, just as your gushing praise of something l hate with a passion, is yours.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think IC70s would be comfortable if skinny - the cushion is soft and it's a decent shape. If you've got more of rugby player/cyclist legs then they're awful. I liked them when I was a kid and hate them now.
The SBB EC seats are far better as the armrests can be moved (if I remember rightly).
LiftFan
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My issue with the 80x seats are that they seem to be way too vertical, and with the rock solid seat back there is no way to get comfortable. I did a three hour round trip on one before a work shift once and I was unable to carry out my job properly as my back was in agony! I can sit in an IC70 for an entire day no issue, and it's slightly better in First. Although, that being said the headrests in First on LNER are also way too firm that they give me neck pain after an hour or so, in comparison to the soft ones on GWR.
If a TOC does have first class, often the seats are just standard seating with added anti-macassar. GTR Thameslink First Class on their 700s comes to mind. I do not know how they get away with first class on 700s anyway, when they declassify the rear most First Class for every journey. Seats are cleaner now than in BR days. Those sprung, horse hair stuffed seating, may have been comfortable, but they contained thousands of peoples dead skin inside them!! You only had to pat them heavily and the resultant cloud of dust was bad. They were also subject to mould due to the poor heating in some of the coaches that caused condensation and damp interiors. Some seating got so bad that often you could feel the springs pressing through. But then, people forget all that.
Actually you are wrong about the class 700 1st class being the same type as those in standard class. I'm not an expert on the various brands and models of train seats but they are considerably different.
lookapigeon
Member
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- 18 Dec 2009
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- 90
I always think the seats they had on the SWT slam door trains were the best for comfort. Everything's been downhill since.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The 700 first class seats are a custom design which is very similar to but not the same as the Sophia (e.g. the armrests are from the Comrail). Some unfortunately do have the "metal bar issue".
Not entirely a custom design, it's also used on some of Spain's FGC trains.
The SR/BR Mk1 suburban trains had sprung and horse hair stuffed seats as a part of the overall suspension of the train. BR1 (and the Gresley style EMU type) bogies were awful riders unless they had just been shopped. When the VEPS arrived and started replacing the non-corridor stock, their B4 bogies were better, so seats fitted were plywood on a steel frame that had a moquette over a not very thick layer of foam. This rapidly became compressed with heavy use so most of the time the seats were no better than current cheap types in use.
It's amazing the power of nostalgia over accuracy in memories.
Agreed. I’d put 8XX seats above IC70s.
The seats in class 360s are probably the most comfortable “commuter” type seats I’ve ever sat on - @Bletchleyite can perhaps confirm what type they are?
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Milo T.K
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- 10 Mar 2018
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- 258
IC70s are alright seats however on the low side etc.
I feel legroom wise the 745/755 airline seats is on the small side whilst the 720s are decent. Seats are good on both but 730s score better than the 720s obvs cause 2+2 etc
I'm not sure if the seats in the 360s are the same as those in the 350s but l believe so. The latter are very good.
There were some findings and a follow up research project is currently underway.
As a product design (student) I'd be really interested in learning who designed some of the seats we've seen recently. EMR's Aurora seats were done by dgdesign and I know Priestman Goode have done some for OBB recently. Even though I think they're fine, I wonder who designed the more contentious seats like the 700 and IET seats - was there even a design studio brought in for that?
Edit: Did some sleuthing and turns out the IEP's (original) seats were done by Warwick-based design studio, DCA Design International. They have a very impressive portfolio, including the popular Voyager seats. Wonder what happened here!
Here's the studio's website: https://www.dca-design.com/
Edit: Did some sleuthing and turns out the IEP's (original) seats were done by Warwick-based design studio, DCA Design International. They have a very impressive portfolio, including the popular Voyager seats. Wonder what happened here!
Here's the studio's website: https://www.dca-design.com/
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Ayman Ilham
Member
All pre-2015 Desiro units use the exact same type of seats. Thus, the 350/2, 360 and 450 are indeed all the same seats for the 2+3 layout. Likewise, the 2+2 version of those seats (which have more contour, slightly winged headrests, tables and armrests, and probably a bit more padding) are used on the 185, other 350 subclasses, ex-first class section of the 360, 380 and 444.
renegademaster
Member
People in this thread going on about how you need to be in exact correct posture and Azuma seats are good. Staying in the exact same position for 4 hours is not good posture, good seats should have some wiggle room
The CIGs were rather better, especially the phase one units which had the spring cushions right up to the end. On the day of the 313 farewell tour, I was able to compare the original minimalist seats on a 313 with a 700. I was amazed that the 313 seat was considerably softer.The SR/BR Mk1 suburban trains had sprung and horse hair stuffed seats as a part of the overall suspension of the train. BR1 (and the Gresley style EMU type) bogies were awful riders unless they had just been shopped. When the VEPS arrived and started replacing the non-corridor stock, their B4 bogies were better, so seats fitted were plywood on a steel frame that had a moquette over a not very thick layer of foam. This rapidly became compressed with heavy use so most of the time the seats were no better than current cheap types in use.
It's amazing the power of nostalgia over accuracy in memories.
On the opposite side of the coin the beloved seats of yesteryear (IC70, sprung seats in slam door EMU’s, original 158 seats etc…) I find are just the same. There is zero back comfort in them as they’re too raked back. No wiggle room in them for me at all to get comfy because like most people (I would hope) I don’t naturally slouch or my back becomes unbearably painful.
For me the best seats seem to be from Grammar but the best of those for me are the ones in the EMR/SR/TfW 158’s. Upright firm back with a small lumber support which is excellent for my glass back but with a comfy enough seat base for long journeys (no numb bum on these) and excellent legroom in my preferred airline seats due to the thinner back.
The seat in the Northern 2 car 158 and 195/331 is also fine for me as there is enough seat base comfort with a similar back support to the Grammar seat mentioned above. 2.5 hours on a 158 was absolutely fine with no back pain unlike the original 158 seat which for the same journey left me in alot of back pain and also pain in my knees due to the lack of legroom in the airline seat (I‘m 183cm so average height).