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SWR Metro fleet permanent withdrawals

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Big Jumby 74

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HamworthyGoods said:
What has been done is a very good compromise
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Despite my agreement with a-another earlier about the 313 being a more accurate representation of the original livery, you are indeed quite right, and all credit to the paint shop at Bomo.

cactustwirly said:
There should be enough to keep 2x458 diagrams on the Reading line and avoid the faffing with 450s on Weymouths
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Regarding spares, the industry no longer has the 'off the shelf' resources it did in BR days, be it major Works locations or running sheds (depots). The unit(s) concerned may well be a priority for Wimbledon, but that does not mean their supplier(s) can drop everything and send the necessary components tomorrow. They will likely have other equally important customers elsewhere. There is also finite physical space at many places for same, Wimbledon being a prime example. New(ish) facilities, such as the bogie drop, required to meet the ever increasing demand for units in service every day, now occupy the siding space that once held a temporary spares facility (a 94xxx CCT), and I could go on. I heard on the GV just after SWR took over that at a certain depot, renowned for topping the golden spanners over the years, was the victim of a 'clear out' of it's spares resources, which (it was alleged by my source) did not meet with the incoming franchisee's way of depot working? I can't comment on that first hand, but if true, I have the utmost sympathy for the engineering staff there, who were very rightly proud of their achievements over a number of years.
 
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Goldfish62

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HamworthyGoods said:
The BR blue 455 serves a route with operator specific fares (Dorking - London) so it is a requirement to have the TOC name prominently displayed on the outside of the train so passengers join the correct service - it is far more important to have the train fit for purpose for the passengers that use it than to be totally authentic. What has been done is a very good compromise.
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Interesting, thanks.

Indeed, SWR have stated that the livery is inspired by BR blue/grey, not a replica. I also think the way the grey has been done is very neat and would quite possibly be how BR themselves would have treated it had the doors needed to be picked out back then.

TEW said:
There are 6 x 10-car diagrams in April. I'd imagine there will be a further drop in June.
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And so it continues...
 
Siemens Staines

Siemens Staines

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TEW said:
There are 6 x 10-car diagrams in April. I'd imagine there will be a further drop in June.
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Thank you for this information. Currently there are nine 10-car 458 diagrams plus one 5-car diagram, so require 19 unit diagrams in total from the current fleet of 22(23) units, although as noted above the random permutation 2C16 diagram being 10v8 means that 21 from 22 are in use today. If there are only six 10-car diagrams in April, then dropping from 19 unit diagrams to 13 unit diagrams is a big step down in one go, assuming that there is still just the one 5-car diagram? I guess that this is to allow for 458/5 to be withdrawn at the rate of two per month over a period of the next three months?
 
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TEW

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Siemens Staines said:
Thank you for this information. Currently there are nine 10-car 458 diagrams plus one 5-car diagram, so require 19 unit diagrams in total from the current fleet of 22(23) units, although as noted above the random permutation 2C16 diagram being 10v8 means that 21 from 22 are in use today. If there are only six 10-car diagrams in April, then dropping from 19 unit diagrams to 13 unit diagrams is a big step down in one go, assuming that there is still just the one 5-car diagram? I guess that this is to allow for 458/5 to be withdrawn at the rate of two per month over a period of the next three months?
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The 5-car diagram is gone too. So only 12. That is LTP diagrams though, extra diagrams could be planned STP if there are still additional units in traffic.
 
DelW

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43096 said:
There is one set (458533) that has been awaiting parts for absolutely ages. Given the dire situation you’d think it would be a high priority. But seemingly not.
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Providing enough rolling stock to meet passenger demand seems to be a very low priority across the railway network.
HamworthyGoods said:
Because this exercise is solely about matching capacity to demand, when there is a stock shortage you have to use the available stock in the most efficient manner as opposed to sometimes the most suitable in terms of comfort.

This is only a temporary position until the 701s finally enter traffic.
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I don't want to shoot the messenger, but there is no stock shortage on SWR, it's absolutely awash with new and refurbished trains. But they're clogging up sidings all over the country because no-one will authorise them to be put into service. We as taxpayers are funding all these trains without ever being allowed to use them. And how temporary is temporary, given that four years on, we have just four services a day run by 701s? Another year, two years, five years? The whole saga is beyond pathetic in its utter stupidity and wastefulness.
 
TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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DelW said:
I don't want to shoot the messenger, but there is no stock shortage on SWR, it's absolutely awash with new and refurbished trains. But they're clogging up sidings all over the country because no-one will authorise them to be put into service.
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Yes, so a shortage of available stock.
 
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Goldfish62

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Siemens Staines said:
Thank you for this information. Currently there are nine 10-car 458 diagrams plus one 5-car diagram, so require 19 unit diagrams in total from the current fleet of 22(23) units, although as noted above the random permutation 2C16 diagram being 10v8 means that 21 from 22 are in use today. If there are only six 10-car diagrams in April, then dropping from 19 unit diagrams to 13 unit diagrams is a big step down in one go, assuming that there is still just the one 5-car diagram? I guess that this is to allow for 458/5 to be withdrawn at the rate of two per month over a period of the next three months?
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That would fit in with Alstom's goal of ramping up to doing one unit every two weeks.
 
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Goldfish62

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Big Jumby 74 said:
I heard on the GV just after SWR took over that at a certain depot, renowned for topping the golden spanners over the years, was the victim of a 'clear out' of it's spares resources, which (it was alleged by my source) did not meet with the incoming franchisee's way of depot working? I can't comment on that first hand, but if true, I have the utmost sympathy for the engineering staff there, who were very rightly proud of their achievements over a number of years.
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Salisbury wasn't it? Clearly it hasn't affected there or Wimbledon given their continued Golden Spanners (Salisbury - entire fleet, Wimbledon - 455s). The only units letting the side down at SWR are the 458s.
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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DelW said:
I don't want to shoot the messenger, but there is no stock shortage on SWR, it's absolutely awash with new and refurbished trains. But they're clogging up sidings all over the country because no-one will authorise them to be put into service. We as taxpayers are funding all these trains without ever being allowed to use them. And how temporary is temporary, given that four years on, we have just four services a day run by 701s? Another year, two years, five years? The whole saga is beyond pathetic in its utter stupidity and wastefulness.
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It is and the collective industry should be ashamed of the 701 debacle which is the worst but by no means the only fiasco in getting new trains into service. If i was in DafT why would you want to authorise anymore investment in replacement stock until the industry gets a grip.
 
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Goldfish62

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HamworthyGoods said:
Because this exercise is solely about matching capacity to demand, when there is a stock shortage you have to use the available stock in the most efficient manner as opposed to sometimes the most suitable in terms of comfort.

This is only a temporary position until the 701s finally enter traffic.
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Meanwhile, two 455 diagrams on the Reading line today while there are 6 450s parked up at Feltham depot...
 
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pompeyfan

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Goldfish62 said:
You reckon?
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I wouldn’t say it’s for the sake of it, but it’s having the right amount of units at the right place for the start of diagrams.

You’d imagine the 455s either came out of Clapham or were berthed at Waterloo so you’d need to run empty to Waterloo from Feltham which isn’t desirable from a pathing or crewing point of view or you part cancel a service which is even less desirable.

I completely get that it looks like incompetence from the windows of a 455 as you pass Feltham sidings but there is usually always more to it.
 
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Goldfish62

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pompeyfan said:
I wouldn’t say it’s for the sake of it, but it’s having the right amount of units at the right place for the start of diagrams.

You’d imagine the 455s either came out of Clapham or were berthed at Waterloo so you’d need to run empty to Waterloo from Feltham which isn’t desirable from a pathing or crewing point of view or you part cancel a service which is even less desirable.

I completely get that it looks like incompetence from the windows of a 455 as you pass Feltham sidings but there is usually always more to it.
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Yes, I do appreciate that there may be deeper issues.
 
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Big Jumby 74

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pompeyfan said:
You’d imagine the 455s either came out of Clapham or were berthed at Waterloo so you’d need to run empty to Waterloo from Feltham which isn’t desirable from a pathing or crewing point of view or you part cancel a service which is even less desirable.
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HamworthyGoods said:
Well one of those 8 car 455 formations is formed off sets which stabled at Reading last night so the 450s at Feltham really aren’t much use for that.
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Crewing will usually be the crux of such situations. If the timetabled service is for all intents and purposes as booked, but there is a stock shortage, stock swaps at say, Waterloo (eg: late evening in readiness for next day), be they STP planned, or by Control, can usually be accommodated without cost, even if that results in less than ideal stock in some situations. But, as you both very rightly point out, the positioning of stock type that may be deemed the preferred option, could well cost crew wise, not to mention the obligatory overnight 'white period' possessions. These periods had to be kept train free, even if no work took place on any given night, and so the hands of the train planners (in relocating stock) were often tied. I assume the same applies these days, I don't know?
 
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Liverpool 507 said:
I can see that 707024 and 707030 are still with SWR but are unbranded. Any ideas as to just how long it will be before they move?
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Soon hopefully they are an absolute delight on SE.

Historians will look back and say why didn't the railway industry didn't just buy a couple of hundred of these to cover all inner suburban duties rather than the fiasco that has now be felled SW.
 
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Goldfish62

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Big Jumby 74 said:
Crewing will usually be the crux of such situations. If the timetabled service is for all intents and purposes as booked, but there is a stock shortage, stock swaps at say, Waterloo (eg: late evening in readiness for next day), be they STP planned, or by Control, can usually be accommodated without cost, even if that results in less than ideal stock in some situations. But, as you both very rightly point out, the positioning of stock type that may be deemed the preferred option, could well cost crew wise, not to mention the obligatory overnight 'white period' possessions. These periods had to be kept train free, even if no work took place on any given night, and so the hands of the train planners (in relocating stock) were often tied. I assume the same applies these days, I don't know?
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Thanks for the insight - very interesting.

Today there appears to be no 455s out on Reading services. I think this is the first day for a few weeks.

Siemens Staines said:
Thank you for this information. Currently there are nine 10-car 458 diagrams plus one 5-car diagram, so require 19 unit diagrams in total from the current fleet of 22(23) units, although as noted above the random permutation 2C16 diagram being 10v8 means that 21 from 22 are in use today. If there are only six 10-car diagrams in April, then dropping from 19 unit diagrams to 13 unit diagrams is a big step down in one go, assuming that there is still just the one 5-car diagram? I guess that this is to allow for 458/5 to be withdrawn at the rate of two per month over a period of the next three months?
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As of today the diagram that includes the 0609 from Reading has gone over to 455s from 450s and looking at RTT the swap to a pair of 458s from the 1450 from Waterloo no longer takes place, meaning that one of the busiest PM peak Reading services, the 1820 is now a pair of 455s!

Also on Journeycheck, multiple short formations on the suburban network.
 
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nctd2306

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Yikes, I'll be on the 8.09 ex Reading tomorrow, booked a pair of 455s, looking to go in the rear motor coach (so car 6 or 7)as I've heard that the back is less busy than the front on that service when it reaches Bracknell, where I'll be boarding.
Of course that won't matter if it has to pick up all the people left behind from the inevitably short formed service in front of it...
Edit: two days in a row now 2C18 from has been 10 car! What's going on? :lol:
 
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Andy1673

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Meanwhile yesterday and today some short-formed 455s workings (3 or 4 curcuits), and 9x2 458s diagram remain...
 
RichJF

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Liverpool 507 said:
I can see that 707024 and 707030 are still with SWR but are unbranded. Any ideas as to just how long it will be before they move?
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I've been in London a few times in the last 4/5 wks & these two ALWAYS seem to turn up at Clapham as my Southern train arrives. Maybe they don't want to leave SWR :D
 
Siemens Staines

Siemens Staines

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RichJF said:
I've been in London a few times in the last 4/5 wks & these two ALWAYS seem to turn up at Clapham as my Southern train arrives. Maybe they don't want to leave SWR :D
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Well they have worked for 63 consecutive weekdays on the same diagram, and for 77 of the last 79. So if you arrive at Clapham at the same time as this diagram you should always see them :smile:
 
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