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TfW 15x/17x withdrawals (17x now finished)

driverd

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I have heard this all from people who work at GWR. 175s and 158s reportedly denied due to being non-standard (158s because Perkins engines and 175s for obvious reasons) and GWR want 150s for a quick entry into service as they need stock ASAP

158s engines aren't non-standard, they're the same as the 165/166 fleet. That's most likely train crew rumour mill rather than anything substantial.

The most likely situation as regards 158s is that the TfW fleet will go to EMR (due to ERTMS fitment for operation on ECML). Anyway, I don't want to get into the world of speculation!
 
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The most likely situation as regards 158s is that the TfW fleet will go to EMR (due to ERTMS fitment for operation on ECML). Anyway, I don't want to get into the world of speculation!
Utter nonsense. The Cambrian/Class 158 ETCS fit is of the older version that won't be compatible with the ECML ETCS installation for a start.
 

170UTD

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The most likely situation as regards 158s is that the TfW fleet will go to EMR (due to ERTMS fitment for operation on ECML). Anyway, I don't want to get into the world of speculation!
EMR has just announced a refurbishment for their 158s though. A bit strange if the Welsh ones will replace them, unless this is some years away?
 

BillStampy

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TFWs 158s will likely be leaving before the 150s
I'm unsure, it could be the 150s first or the 158s. 150236 is the first to have left and the 158s are still going to be here for the rest of this year so. The 150s all have a time limit until their c6 overhaul which isn't happening.
 

Fincra5

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158s engines aren't non-standard, they're the same as the 165/166 fleet. That's most likely train crew rumour mill rather than anything substantial.

The most likely situation as regards 158s is that the TfW fleet will go to EMR (due to ERTMS fitment for operation on ECML). Anyway, I don't want to get into the world of speculation!
The ETCS system on the TfW158s needs a big overhaul to get it to the latest versions.
Also I don't think EMR will encounter the "Signals-Away" area of ERTMS until 158s are long gone!
 

Caaardiff

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I'm unsure, it could be the 150s first or the 158s. 150236 is the first to have left and the 158s are still going to be here for the rest of this year so. The 150s all have a time limit until their c6 overhaul which isn't happening.
Sorry, meant the 150s becoming available for other TOCs rather than the ones being scrapped.

What makes you say that?
There's still no confirmed plans for 398s being introduced. Even with the 756s there will still be 150s needed om the Valleys.
It's looking like end of year or start of 2025 latest for 158s going.
 

sd0733

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What's happening with the 2 150s that were involved in the Craven Arms incident? 242 and 279 I think?
Current thoughts seem to be both will re-enter service.

150229 which was badly damaged when it hit a coupling off a freight train several months back has now also re-entered service.
 

Lurcheroo

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I have heard this all from people who work at GWR. 175s and 158s reportedly denied due to being non-standard (158s because Perkins engines and 175s for obvious reasons) and GWR want 150s for a quick entry into service as they need stock ASAP
Ahh ok so nothing concrete then!

Theres seems to be issues with taking any of the 3 types on.
It doesn’t make much difference to me so I think I’m fairly unbiased (but maybe I am).
Based on what we do know for certain, to me:
- 150’s seem least likely
- 175’s seem most likely and the best of the 3 units (provided they’re maintenance is good)
158’s would be the best in terms of integration with their current fleet.
 

Rhydgaled

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158s engines aren't non-standard, they're the same as the 165/166 fleet. That's most likely train crew rumour mill rather than anything substantial.
The TfW 158s are certainly 'non-standard' nationally, as they are the only ones with ETCS fitted. Might that be a bigger issue for other TOCs than the different engines? Also, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that First Great Western (or possibly Wessex Trains before them) had a preference for Cummins-engined 158s over the Perkins-engined ones and deliberately cascaded away the Perkins-engined examples where they could.
 

driverd

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The TfW 158s are certainly 'non-standard' nationally, as they are the only ones with ETCS fitted. Might that be a bigger issue for other TOCs than the different engines? Also, I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that First Great Western (or possibly Wessex Trains before them) had a preference for Cummins-engined 158s over the Perkins-engined ones and deliberately cascaded away the Perkins-engined examples where they could.

ERTMS has no relevance to the engines. As I said, the 165/166s use the same perkins engine as the 158 - so to GWR, the 350hp Cummins engine is far more non-standard.

Utter nonsense. The Cambrian/Class 158 ETCS fit is of the older version that won't be compatible with the ECML ETCS installation for a start.

Utter nonsense seems a bit strong. Manners dear...

It's been suggest in various other places on these boards, given the equipment is already fitted and would only require upgrading, rather than a new fit.

Perhaps I got the wrong impression from other threads.
 
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Breadface

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If GWR take on TfW 158s, and keep the ETCS in place, they still have to train their drivers on the operation of the units in Level 0. Its not full ETCS training but its knowing the basics as the system is never fully turned off.

(I Believe its something to do with inputting the headcode and some other data into the DMI, otherwise it wont let you move(?))

It would be more feasible to remove ETCS, or isolate in a way that means they wont have to bother with it and it doesn't interfere. But that is more work to get them into service.
 

craigybagel

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If GWR take on TfW 158s, and keep the ETCS in place, they still have to train their drivers on the operation of the units in Level 0. Its not full ETCS training but its knowing the basics as the system is never fully turned off.

(I Believe its something to do with inputting the headcode and some other data into the DMI, otherwise it wont let you move(?))

It would be more feasible to remove ETCS, or isolate in a way that means they wont have to bother with it and it doesn't interfere. But that is more work to get them into service.
Quite easy to isolate, all it takes is one turn of a drivers key in a certain switch and it goes back to being a bog standard 158 until the switch is put back.

That said, it's really not hard to set up in level 0. It's mostly pretty self explanatory, it doesn't take a lot of training. It is true though that with ETCS switched on, the unit will only move a few feet (to allow for uncoupling) before the brakes kick in.
 

Welshguy1048

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08/04//24 - Class 37 - 37884 T&T 37800 - with 2 barrier coaches - Derby R.T.C. to Holyhead Car M.D.

To collect a Class 175 from Holyhead


08/04/24 - Class 37 - 37884 T&T 37880 - with 2 barrier coaches - Holyhead Car M.D. to Derby R.T.C.

 
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The_Train

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08/04//24 - Class 37 - 37884 T&T 37800 - with 2 barrier coaches - Derby R.T.C. to Holyhead Car M.D.

To collect a Class 175 from Holyhead


08/04/24 - Class 37 - 37884 T&T 37880 - with 2 barrier coaches - Holyhead Car M.D. to Derby R.T.C.

Did that not just have one barrier coach?

And presumably whatever collection it was due to make, was cancelled?
 

dciuk

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If Porterbrook do not want to pay for the C6 exam on the TFW 150's would it be possible/economical for GWR or First Group to purchase them for scrap value and then do the necessary work to get them back into service? I recall that GWR previously owned some class 143 units and First Group owned some HST's (not sure if they own any of the HST's currently in use)
 

Gaz55

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Having a 158 or 150 with 3 pin sockets on Northern would be a nice upgrade when compared to their current Sprinter fleets.
 

Chester1

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If Porterbrook do not want to pay for the C6 exam on the TFW 150's would it be possible/economical for GWR or First Group to purchase them for scrap value and then do the necessary work to get them back into service? I recall that GWR previously owned some class 143 units and First Group owned some HST's (not sure if they own any of the HST's currently in use)

They probably could but 175s are available now and 158s will be over next couple of years.

The best option for off lease 150s will be heritage railways. Sprinters are the last British trains that are simple enough for them to maintain. Put them in a classic late BR livery...

If they continue on national network then Northern would be a decent option to replace the 155s. They have 2+2 seating and they would enable Northern to withdraw a microfleet.
 

Jez

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Whats happening with the 150 withdrawals? And what sort of timescale are we looking at?

There seems to be very few 150s booked outside of the Valley Lines now.
 

Anonymous10

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Whats happening with the 150 withdrawals? And what sort of timescale are we looking at?

There seems to be very few 150s booked outside of the Valley Lines now.
Indeed, one the only regular 150 diagrams outside valleys now being the 2048 ex Swansea to milford Haven in my experience.
 

Bikeman78

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Whats happening with the 150 withdrawals? And what sort of timescale are we looking at?

There seems to be very few 150s booked outside of the Valley Lines now.
The main factor is C6 body overhauls. Judging by the shiny condition of 150253 below the solebar, C4 overhauls are still happening. Though I guess if a unit due C6 in a few months runs out of C4 miles first, it will be game over. Someone with better knowledge than me might be able to explain better.
 

BillStampy

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The main factor is C6 body overhauls. Judging by the shiny condition of 150253 below the solebar, C4 overhauls are still happening. Though I guess if a unit due C6 in a few months runs out of C4 miles first, it will be game over. Someone with better knowledge than me might be able to explain better.
150236 hit it's C6 recently and was therefore removed from service, supposing the C6 is the death date for the 150 fleets, 1 by 1.
 

170UTD

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150236 hit it's C6 recently and was therefore removed from service, supposing the C6 is the death date for the 150 fleets, 1 by 1.
Are they going to be very short of units when that happens, or are enough of them l long enough away from C6 exams? More 197s entering service would help too I imagine?
 

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