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XC Voyager Refurbishment

ModernRailways

ModernRailways

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CptCharlee said:
Crosscountry really does need a whole complete refresh its brand it's tired, dated and a refresh will bring with it new hope that a new brand longer trains will seem new and actual change for many customers. Psychologically (customer wise) it makes sense to have a refresh.
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The brand is quite distinctive and in my opinion has aged very well, and doesn’t look dated. It needs a bit of a spruce up but that’s more the trains themselves rather than the actual brand and the exteriors a nice fresh coat of paint to look new again - worth remember they’re still pretty much wearing the old Virgin XC colours in most places, roofs especially.

I think the vast majority of passengers accept CrossCountry have short trains for the journeys the cover, and that’s not going to change, more services will be strengthened with more 8 car (2 x 4 car) but the 5 cars are still going to feature and whilst they add a good chunk of capacity I can’t see them making that much of a dent in the capacity issues XC face - a large part I would say is through the core with a lot of ‘local’ journeys being made where they should be put on local operators, though asking Northern to take all the passengers a XC would between Leeds and Sheffield would be asking for trouble, a 2 car unit is already insufficient on some of the express services (Nottinghams), but taking local journeys off XC onto local TOCs and providing those local TOCs with longer trains is another topic entirely.
 
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Trainman40083

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ModernRailways said:
The brand is quite distinctive and in my opinion has aged very well, and doesn’t look dated. It needs a bit of a spruce up but that’s more the trains themselves rather than the actual brand and the exteriors a nice fresh coat of paint to look new again - worth remember they’re still pretty much wearing the old Virgin XC colours in most places, roofs especially.

I think the vast majority of passengers accept CrossCountry have short trains for the journeys the cover, and that’s not going to change, more services will be strengthened with more 8 car (2 x 4 car) but the 5 cars are still going to feature and whilst they add a good chunk of capacity I can’t see them making that much of a dent in the capacity issues XC face - a large part I would say is through the core with a lot of ‘local’ journeys being made where they should be put on local operators, though asking Northern to take all the passengers a XC would between Leeds and Sheffield would be asking for trouble, a 2 car unit is already insufficient on some of the express services (Nottinghams), but taking local journeys off XC onto local TOCs and providing those local TOCs with longer trains is another topic entirely.
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Some time ago, and must have been before COVID I recall Northern had a plan for a Nottingham to Leeds service, that went fast between Sheffield and Leeds, via Wakefield Westgate. That might have taken the "local" demand there. XC talk of less stopping of Voyagers at Burton and Tamworth. Then I hope the 170s are double sets. Maybe TfW will run between New Street and Cardiff in addition to XC.
 
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AndrewJM70

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I have never understood why regular capacity issues cannot be addressed with extra trains. The cost of these is tiny when spread over 30 years or so. There always seem to be a raft of excuses but no action.
 
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The Ham

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JonathanH said:
It isn't just the purchase price that is involved.
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Indeed not, however the Voyagers are fairly fuel thirsty and can't use electric power at all (not even charging when slowing down).

Not only that but they are amongst the heaviest (ready most costly for track access charges) and by being short trains need more staff and more coaches. As an example, if a 7 coach voyager existed it would have the same capacity of 4+4 (a saving of one coach), so unless you can drop/pickup coaches you'll either end up with low capacity and/or not actually making a saving over that length.
 
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syorksdeano

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Trainman40083 said:
Some time ago, and must have been before COVID I recall Northern had a plan for a Nottingham to Leeds service, that went fast between Sheffield and Leeds, via Wakefield Westgate. That might have taken the "local" demand there. XC talk of less stopping of Voyagers at Burton and Tamworth. Then I hope the 170s are double sets. Maybe TfW will run between New Street and Cardiff in addition to XC.
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I believe the original plan was Nottingham to Bradford, but fast between Sheffield and Leeds. Northern Connect I think it was going to be part of.
 
ModernRailways

ModernRailways

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Trainman40083 said:
Some time ago, and must have been before COVID I recall Northern had a plan for a Nottingham to Leeds service, that went fast between Sheffield and Leeds, via Wakefield Westgate.
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syorksdeano said:
I believe the original plan was Nottingham to Bradford, but fast between Sheffield and Leeds. Northern Connect I think it was going to be part of.
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I believe this was going to be an additional service, it was to be Nottingham to Bradford, usual stops to Sheffield, then fast to Leeds via Westgate. The current 'express' via Barnsley was to be kept.

The Ham said:
As an example, if a 7 coach voyager existed
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It's likely already been asked/answered but would there be a possibility of the intermediate carriages of a 222 being able to be added to a 220? I believe they share the same bodyshells but the main issue is that the electrical connections are different, however could those electrical connections to be altered when being refurbished in order to make them compatible and for them to be added into a 220 rake lengthening them?
 
DanNCL

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ModernRailways said:
It's likely already been asked/answered but would there be a possibility of the intermediate carriages of a 222 being able to be added to a 220? I believe they share the same bodyshells but the main issue is that the electrical connections are different, however could those electrical connections to be altered when being refurbished in order to make them compatible and for them to be added into a 220 rake lengthening them?
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In theory it would be possible but it would be an extensive process, not too dissimilar to level of work required to integrate the former 460 vehicles into the 458 fleet. There’s software differences to overcome amongst other issues.

There’s also the issue that the shortest formation a 222 can run in is 4 car, which means unless the 222s were to be disbanded (and the driving cars disposed of), there’d be a maximum of 35 intermediate vehicles available to lengthen voyagers - not even enough to lengthen all of the 4 car voyagers to 5 car.

If the 222 fleet was to be disbanded, that would leave 89 intermediate vehicles available to lengthen voyagers, which would be enough to allow all of the 4 car voyagers to be lengthened to 6 car, along with 13 of the 5 car units, result would be a fleet of 51x 6 car and 27x 5 car Voyagers.
Not a bad idea if it can be pulled off.
 
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Wolfie

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DanNCL said:
In theory it would be possible but it would be an extensive process, not too dissimilar to level of work required to integrate the former 460 vehicles into the 458 fleet. There’s software differences to overcome amongst other issues.

There’s also the issue that the shortest formation a 222 can run in is 4 car, which means unless the 222s were to be disbanded (and the driving cars disposed of), there’d be a maximum of 35 intermediate vehicles available to lengthen voyagers - not even enough to lengthen all of the 4 car voyagers to 5 car.

If the 222 fleet was to be disbanded, that would leave 89 intermediate vehicles available to lengthen voyagers, which would be enough to allow all of the 4 car voyagers to be lengthened to 6 car, along with 13 of the 5 car units, result would be a fleet of 51x 6 car and 27x 5 car Voyagers.
Not a bad idea if it can be pulled off.
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An obvious question: are the Voyagers and 222s owned by the same ROSCO. If not.....
 
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Moderating team

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A reminder that this thread is to discuss the XC Voyager Refurbishment programme. If anybody wants to discuss anything else then they should start a new thread.
 
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James Kevill

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Is CrossCountry keeping the same livery or will it be the different livery when the CrossCountry fleet are going to be refurbished?
 
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swt_passenger

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TT-ONR-NRN said:
Had post 292, thinking about it?
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It‘s followed up in the next posts. Yet another contradictory anonymous XC staffer. o_O I expect if anyone read the whole thread they’d probably find no details have ever been confirmed. A watched pot never boils, as they say.
 
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GoneSouth

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Russel said:
XC Are doing well at keeping this rebranding under wraps, so to speak...
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Or more likely haven’t got a clue what they’re going to do yet and want to delay spending any money for as long as possible.

Stood next to a voyager when pulling into Birmingham in Saturday it looked absolutely knackered, pain peeling off, filth everywhere, it just looked like nobody was taking any care of it which is a huge shame. Very comfortable 125 mph trains are hard to come by in this country.

To be fair, they have started to do some maintenance which was noticeable, all the lights in the vestibule areas seem to have been replaced recently, they seem much lighter now.
 
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jhy44

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Is there anything that can be done about the lack of mobile phone service on voyagers? That's the biggest gripe / issue with the stock for me, aside from the capacity issues (which can't be resolved through a refurb). It essentially makes time spent on these trains dead time as I can't do any work (because the wifi offered is so unreliable/slow), and can barely make any texts or calls. In 2024 not being able to access phone data networks surely has to make these trains not fit for purpose given how much of life is reliant upon internet connectivity?

I regularly am supposed to travel up to Leeds for work but I find myself doing anything I can to get out of the trips primarily due to the unavoidable use of a Voyager to get there, or having the meeting/event moved to the London office instead where I have the power to do so, as my time onboard a GWR or Chiltern service is not dead-time as I can access the internet just fine.

Surely there is something that can be done? Some booster tech or something that can be installed in the carriages?

Very sad to see the back of the much older XC HSTs which had perfect phone signal :'(
 
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Bletchleyite

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Modern Railways just arrived with an article on it. The livery rumours seem to be true (yuck!) and there will be full seat replacement, but sadly with the thick-backed FISA LEAN in both classes which will mean poorer, not better, legroom and a fair downgrade in 1st.

The article alleges more legroom, but I'm pretty sure the LEAN has a thicker overall back than the existing seats, and the "niche" isn't new, the existing seats have it, so that doesn't add anything either.

2+2 First Class on the 170s is also very, very poor. What's the point in having it at all?

Not very impressed, but I've never been impressed with anything to do with Arriva so I should perhaps not be surprised! The whole package looks more Flixtrain than ICE.
 
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TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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Bletchleyite said:
Modern Railways just arrived with an article on it. The livery rumours seem to be true (yuck!) and there will be full seat replacement, but sadly with the thick-backed FISA LEAN in both classes which will mean poorer, not better, legroom and a fair downgrade in 1st.

The article alleges more legroom, but I'm pretty sure the LEAN has a thicker overall back than the existing seats, and the "niche" isn't new, the existing seats have it, so that doesn't add anything either.

2+2 First Class on the 170s is also very, very poor. What's the point in having it at all?

Not very impressed, but I've never been impressed with anything to do with Arriva so I should perhaps not be surprised! The whole package looks more Flixtrain than ICE.
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How bitterly disappointing. FISA Lean comes with that awful pole blocking the legs of anyone sat in the window seat, too.
 
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Bletchleyite

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TT-ONR-NRN said:
How bitterly disappointing. FISA Lean comes with that awful pole blocking the legs of anyone sat in the window seat, too.
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I don't think that's a given - the pole is present on all trains where the seats are cantilevered regardless of the seat type, however Voyagers don't have the fittings and reinforcements for cantilevered seating so it's likely they will be mounted traditionally, i.e. bolted to the bodyside and a vertical leg on the aisle side.
 
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