edwin_m
Veteran Member
The loco doesn't look to be foul of the main line. Are all the cancellations simply because they haven't mended the track circuit interrupter and/or there are lots of people milling about and needing a track closure?
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Dangerous Goods Train Derailment At West Ealing 05/04/24
- Thread starter Samzino
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Empty can be worse than full, but the initial incident will have been a full Dangerous Goods Incident, hence all rods blocked.Assuming it’s this one below;
Realtime Trains | 6O07 0500 Colnbrook Baa Gbrf to Grain Oil Terminal Gbrf | 05/04/2024
Real-time train running information for 6O07 0500 departure from Colnbrook Baa Gbrf to Grain Oil Terminal Gbrf on 05/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Aviation fuel, albeit empties heading back to Grain. Appears to have come off in West Ealing Loop adjacent to the carriage sidings.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,474
Could there have been EMUs stuck in the sidings that couldn’t provide the early ECS units into Paddington? That would have a knock-on effect for some hours.
RTT shows only 1 ECS cancelled from the sidings today. I suspect it's just the reality of what happens when a railway running trains every 2 minutes on both lines has a problem.
Trains appear to be running normally on the Up Relief now after being talked past at danger for a while, and before that a brief period of running Main Line only.
Off West Ealing overnight there’s only the 387 for the 0712 PAD-CDF and one of the 5 sets for HEx.
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,474
Thanks both. I thought it worth asking, but that appears to be a bit of a minor issue.
A second party more so in charge of such would also be good and considering they were onsite I was waiting for that before finding out about the news later on.
High Dyke
Established Member
It still won't stop non-rail staff making a mountain etc...
Okay, there's been an incident and the signalling system has done what it should. There is a well planned procedure in place when any incident takes place. Having dealt with a couple of Dangerous Goods Incidents before, the mind races, but you deal with.it professionally.
I never said it wouldn't be investigated, just it won't necessarily be by the RAIB. There are a fair number of SPADs/TPWS activations/derailments across the whole network annually and the vast majority get investigated by the TOC concerned who will notify RAIB of their findings if required.
If it was a SPAD due to simple driver error which resulted in a derailment as designed by the system (it's the whole reason why the trap points are there) then I don't see there's much need for a full RAIB report. If there were wider learning points for the whole industry then yes, a full RAIB investigation would be appropriate.
The leading bogie hasn't been deflected by the trap point as much as the angle of the trap point suggests but has travelled a fair distance - it's ended up right on top of the expansion joint which I hope doesn't complicate recovery.
6Z07 is in the background with 66734 having recovered the tankers
6Z07 is in the background with 66734 having recovered the tankers
Attachments
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,474
Yes, and that’s exactly what the latest photo clearly shows. You can’t rely on NR PR people knowing the difference between a wheel and an axle…
It very much was a SPAD. Trap points did their job.
There would be a contingency plan due to the Relief line being blocked hence the Elizabeth line running on Mains.
simplified for general public understanding ?Yes, and that’s exactly what the latest photo clearly shows. You can’t rely on NR PR people knowing the difference between a wheel and an axle…
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 31,474
Oversimplified? I mean how many people won’t understand the concept of wheels on either side of any vehicles, from cars to buses to trains. If someone mentions bikes I’ll scream…
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Just saying "six wheels" instead would be simple and also correct!
Sun Chariot
Established Member
That's 66721 (white, with a section of London Underground map. One side has the 1933 version; the other has the 2013 version).
66734 is the Royal Purple example "Platinum Jubilee"; it's spent the past three days on MoD related services to and from Marchwood (near Southampton).
It'll take the RAIB about a year to release the report. What happened will be known a lot sooner than that, and if it was a SPaD, it will likely be known almost immediately.
The RAIB report will go into root causes, rather than the immediate cause
They would have been notified under the RAIB notification schedule but contrary to popular belief, the RAIB do not investigate nor produce a report for every single incident.
This is a derailment following a SPAD where all infrastructure and other equipment worked as intended, there won't be a RAIB specific report.
This is a derailment following a SPAD where all infrastructure and other equipment worked as intended, there won't be a RAIB specific report.
Raib were notified but did not attend.
Dai Corner
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Jul 2015
- Messages
- 6,357
Deepgreen
Established Member
Yes, it is - three wheels derailing would be quite a sight!
Who described it as a "dangerous goods train"? If it was empty tanks as mentioned up-thread, it isn't dangerous (at least in terms of its cargo).
CarrotPie
Member
But if it's got aviation fuel tankers on it and you don't know they're empty, better assume they're full than assume they're not and they blow up!
Internally we were told they did attend so pretty much confused myself.
From my understanding is they did not attend, they were provided with pictures and information. Recovery of the wagons was granted very quickly.
If they did attend I am not aware.
Edit: checked all logs and yes Raib were notified and various forms sent, but no where on any logs does it say that RAIB attended.
Last edited:
Discharged Aviation Fuel is significantly more dangerous than fully loaded; as with most petroleum-based commodities the vapour left behind is much worse than the relatively-difficult to ignite commodity itself.
By definition in the RID (the international Regs that govern transport of dangerous goods by rail) an empty tank that has previously held dangerous goods but is not fully cleaned out is defined as containing dangerous goods albeit the tanks bring empty should be noted on the Transport Document.
Same applies to transport of dangerous goods by road where the equivalent Regs (the ADR) impose the same requirement.
The definition of what us "dangerous goods " is similarly in RID/ADR. The consisting of the train on TOPS indicates whether DG train or not.
TPO
As above, there is still vapour and liquid remnants in the tanks. It is still dangerous goods and still requires the necessary action following such incidents.
Indeed. NR Control will notify the RAIB because it’s a SPAD and derailment, but the vast majority are not fully investigated nor even given a bulletin. This is normally because a simple cause(s) can be identified.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
They may still investigate the root causes, which might involve a visit at a later date to look at signal sighting or some other issue, but there's no need to examine the aftermath on site.
Here's an example of a trap point derailment where RAIB didn't list a site visit as a principal source of evidence, but investigated thoroughly nevertheless: R282009_091110_East_Somerset_Junction.pdf
Here's an example of a trap point derailment where RAIB didn't list a site visit as a principal source of evidence, but investigated thoroughly nevertheless: R282009_091110_East_Somerset_Junction.pdf
Whereas with this accident at nearly the same place, the cause was track-related and it's evident that they gathered significant evidence from a site visit: R192017_171213_East_Somerset_Junction
Have a read of the accident report on the TWA 800 crash in 1996, which will explain clearly the dangers of very small quantities of aviation fuel and the presence of relatively large amounts of vapour.