GTR should reinstate more services on their Southern branded routes

What about using the (supposed surplus of) 701s or even 450s to reintroduce 2tph to each of Dorking and Guildford on SWR, and then having the Dorking trains run semi-fast from Epsom (maybe Worcester Park, Wimbledon, Clapham, Vauxhall or something similar to the current peak fasts) so Dorking has a decent service to London, it would take the pressure off of Southern bringing back their fasts (it could still be done when resources are available but it would also mean any options for capacity uplifts on Southern are more flexible and not just aimed at restoring a semi-fast service)

southern442 said:

What about using the (supposed surplus of) 701s or even 450s to reintroduce 2tph to each of Dorking and Guildford on SWR, and then having the Dorking trains run semi-fast from Epsom (maybe Worcester Park, Wimbledon, Clapham, Vauxhall or something similar to the current peak fasts) so Dorking has a decent service to London, it would take the pressure off of Southern bringing back their fasts (it could still be done when resources are available but it would also mean any options for capacity uplifts on Southern are more flexible and not just aimed at restoring a semi-fast service)

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I imagine this would not be too popular in so far as Stoneleigh and Ewell East would still remain as 2tph as compared to the pre-covid 4tph and it might be considered unfair that Worcester Park would have its service restored to precovid levels but not the other 2. If the 2 semi fast Dorkings were in addition to a all stations 4tph service it wouldnt be a problem but whether or not there'd be demand for that is another thing.

It might perhaps work if you permanently dropped the SN Dorking/Horsham fasts and instead had them as SWR fasts from Waterloo (perhaps Vauxhall, Clapham, Wimbledon, Epsom, then all stations to Dorking/Horsham). Of course Sutton would lose out relative to precovid but to have 6tph to Epsom via Sutton and 6tph to Epsom via Wimbledon might be considered overkill, or perhaps it might stimulate demand.

moonarrow458 said:

I imagine this would not be too popular in so far as Stoneleigh and Ewell East would still remain as 2tph as compared to the pre-covid 4tph and it might be considered unfair that Worcester Park would have its service restored to precovid levels but not the other 2. If the 2 semi fast Dorkings were in addition to a all stations 4tph service it wouldnt be a problem but whether or not there'd be demand for that is another thing.

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Even pre-covid Stoneleigh always had about half the passenger numbers as Worcester Park, Ewell West about 75%. In theory it makes sense for a station that is twice as busy to have twice as many services, and plus the new services would still free up space on the stopping services so still a capacity uplift for those stations missed out. If you really wanted you could have 1 of them call at EWW and/or STL but the new service would still very much benefit them even if indirectly.

I don't think it makes much sense to run SWR express trains since they're already fast enough and I believe some of the intermediate stations really do need it

Sutton seems to be a popular exchange point, with people transferring to SN London Bridge or Thameslink trains, from my experience. I think the people from South of Epsom would miss the direct trains to Sutton if the SN trains were truncated to Epsom.

RE: the suggestion of giving Dorking–Horsham to SWR, would this have an effect on how Horsham crews are able to work the Victoria–Dorking trains? For selfish reasons I'd prefer this line to stay with SN, especially as I don't think there's a chance of getting any semi-fast working via Stoneleigh.

It puzzles me that the semi-fast Victoria–Horsham trains used to have more calls than the equivalent Victoria–Dorking ones. If these are re-instated, it should be switched to stimulate use from the little stations between Dorking–Horsham. I know the line is little-used, but if you're going to keep it open you might as well entice some new customers. Currently ~1h10m to do a ~30 mile journey is appalling. It should be possible to maintain connection with the Gatwick trains at Dorking...?

devon_belle said:

It puzzles me that the semi-fast Victoria–Horsham trains used to have more calls than the equivalent Victoria–Dorking ones. If these are re-instated, it should be switched to stimulate use from the little stations between Dorking–Horsham. I know the line is little-used, but if you're going to keep it open you might as well entice some new customers. Currently ~1h10m to do a ~30 mile journey is appalling. It should be possible to maintain connection with the Gatwick trains at Dorking...?

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The reason the Horsham trains have more stops is because it's more useful for those at Box Hill and Ewell East, and in reality, they don't significantly affect the journey times. Also if going from Dorking to Gatwick you would take GWR

PGAT said:

I don't think it makes much sense to run SWR express trains since they're already fast enough and I believe some of the intermediate stations really do need it

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Not really fast enough compared to similar-sized settlements nearby and their service to London. And none of the intermediate stations would be getting a worse service than they do now, and would benefit from the uplift in capacity.

southern442 said:

Not really fast enough compared to similar-sized settlements nearby and their service to London. And none of the intermediate stations would be getting a worse service than they do now, and would benefit from the uplift in capacity.

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Ok perhaps if there's a really big surplus of 701s then there can be 2tph Waterloo to Epsom stoppers and the Dorkings can run fast

PGAT said:

Ok perhaps if there's a really big surplus of 701s then there can be 2tph Waterloo to Epsom stoppers and the Dorkings can run fast

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That would be the ideal scenario, although not sure if 6tph is likely to ever happen on that line. I personally think that in the right circumstances there could be a demand for it, just maybe not in the eyes of someone presenting a business case to a cash-strapped and frugal DfT!

southern442 said:

That would be the ideal scenario, although not sure if 6tph is likely to ever happen on that line. I personally think that in the right circumstances there could be a demand for it, just maybe not in the eyes of someone presenting a business case to a cash-strapped and frugal DfT!

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Perhaps if/when things recover it would make sense to have 6tph down there.

I don't know the area but I would guess that the intermediate stations Wimbledon-Epsom need 4tph as it looks pretty built up. So a "fast" to Dorking would have to be on top of that.

If Southern services don't go beyond Epsom perhaps it would help?