Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

jb66 · 3 Apr 2025

CSB0241 said:
The main problem I see is that the 22 barely even has enough demand to be every 20min, so every 15min is a far stretch. There’s annoyingly not really any easy way to implement a day 22A service without either making the timetables really weird or running buses too frequently (unless they ran both hourly every day with some extra journeys at peak times, but let’s be real, that’s probably a lot more effort than really necessary).

That would make the 70/71 even less reliable than they are now, the 70’s pretty reliable though the 71 is far from.

Fair, though I think it should maybe be half hourly to Winchburgh Campus at the furthest.

I think it should be the other way around, the 73 is much busier than the 74 in my many experiences on them, so I’d say the 74 can run via the current Sunday timetable on all days of the week (with several tweaks of course) then have the 73 do it’s own thing at a half-hourly frequency.

I think the X27 would be a better replacement.

Not a bad idea, basically just a shorter 21.

I’d maybe have it stop at Gorgie City Farm instead of Dalry Primary School & Stewart Terrace.

Thought I’d share more proposals I came up with;

Lothian;
2: extended to Gyle Centre Mon-Sat via Lochside Crescent to aid capacity on service 22 between the Gyle & Balgreen.
5: Service extended to Torphin via Redford & Colinton to reflect customer demand.
9: Service rerouted to Ocean Terminal via Bonnington Road & North Junction Street.
10: Service rerouted via Leith Walk & Great Junction Street to aid capacity on Leith Walk.
15: Service extended to Penicuik Town Centre via Auchendinny.
16: Service curtailed to Oxgangs Library. Service 5 will continue to serve Redford, Colinton, & Torphin.
25: Frequency increased to every 10min Mon-Sat. Most journeys will terminate at Waterloo Place, with buses running to Restalrig every 30min daily & every 40min in the evenings.
30: Frequency reduced to every 15min Mon-Sat & every 20min on Sundays. All off-peak & weekend journeys curtailed to Fort Kinnaird West, with peak journeys running along the A1 to Queen Margaret University.
32: Service curtailed from Balerno to Gyle Centre to improve reliability. Service 70 will continue to provide links between The Gyle & Balerno.
33: Service rerouted from Saughton Mains via Longstone Depot, Hailesland Road, Westside Plaza, & Baberton to Clovenstone Gardens.
34; Weekday journeys will now run via weekend route via Riccarton Mains Road & The Avenue.
35; weekday journeys will run via weekend route off peak. Morning peak journeys to Heriot-Watt & evening peak journeys to Ocean Terminal will run via Riccarton Research Park will run as service 35A.
38: Service curtailed to Western General Hospital due to relatively low passenger usage on Crewe Road North. Service 22 will continue to serve Crewe Road North & Waterfront Broadway.
47B: Service renumbered to service 47A to stay in line with 22A & 35A.
X31: New hourly Mon-Sat daytime service introduced to provide Rosewell with a bus service into Edinburgh.

LothianCountry;
X19: Service reduced to every 60min daily off-peak due to low customer usage. Buses will interwork with new service X20 at Waterloo Place. I know reducing service levels isn’t great for competition, but I think Lothian should prioritise improving other areas in West Lothian.
X20: New service between Halcroft Park & Waterloo Place via Hermiston P&R & Gorgie every 60min daily. Service will interwork with service X19 at Waterloo Place.
X27: Frequency increased to every 30min Mon-Sat. Service rerouted from Livingston Centre via old 72 route to Whitburn Town Centre, then via West Main Street to Whitburn West End.
X28: Service increased to every 30min Mon-Sat.
70: Service extended from Gyle Centre to Balerno via 32 route, providing weekend services between Balerno & Hermiston Gait/The Gyle. Service curtailed to Halcroft Park in Ratho so that the service doesn’t double over itself at Hermiston P&R.
71: Buses will no longer interwork with service 70 to allow for timetable changes to improve reliability.
72: Service curtailed to Livingston Centre, with service X27 & new 75 replacing western half.
73: Frequency increased to every 30min Mon-Sat with new hourly Sunday service introduced. Service extended to Armadale from Bathgate via Bathville. Buses will then split to provide an hourly service to Blackridge Mon-Sat, & an hourly service daily to Honeyman Court.
75: New service between Fauldhouse & Bathgate Station via Whitburn, Blackburn, & Wester Inch, running every 60min Mon-Sat.

EastCoastBuses;
X4: Frequency reduced to every hour daily.
X6: Daytime service reintroduced every hour daily. Service rerouted to Haymarket via X4 route. From A1, buses will omit Wallyford, rejoining current route at Dolphinestone Flyover.
124: Service rerouted between Levenhall & Johnny Cope Stone via B1348, Ayres Wynd, Preston Road, & Schaw Road to provide better links between the top & bottom ‘pans.’

PVR changes;
2: 8 > 9
5: 8 > 9
9: Unchanged
10: Unchanged
15: Unchanged
16: 18(?) > 15(?)
25: 17(?) > 15(?)
30: 18(?) > 14
32: 2 > 1
33: Unchanged
34: Unchanged
35/A: Unchanged
38: 8 > 7
47/A: Unchanged
X31: 3 > 5

X19: 5 > ~2
X20: 0 > ~2
X27: 7(?) > 8
X28: 8(?) > 10
70: ~2 > 2
71: ~2 > 2
72: 5 > 3
73: ~2 > 5
74: ~2 > 2
75: 0 > 2

X4: 5 > ~3
X6: 3 > ~3
124: Unchanged

Central: ±0 (+1 SD, -1 DD)
Marine: +1 (+1 DD)
Longstone: -8 (-2 SD, -6 DD)
Livingston: +6 (+6 DD)
Musselburgh: +1 (+1 DD)

As for fleet changes, I’ll leave that up to you guys.

The x19 is completing with the x38, if you make it every 60mins it will still be transporting air as the x38 is more regular.

It must be every 30mins to hit mcgills profits. If anything they should bring back the green arrow Coaches on it!

RailUK Forums

InOban · 3 Apr 2025

The 5 currently terminates at the Morrisons supermarket which is the only full-size supermarket in that part of Edinburgh (except for the Aldi). I would have thought that many people from Oxgangs must need it.

Siemens Trains · 3 Apr 2025

InOban said:
The 5 currently terminates at the Morrisons supermarket which is the only full-size supermarket in that part of Edinburgh (except for the Aldi). I would have thought that many people from Oxgangs must need it.

Would the Tesco at Colinton Mains be a suitable alternative? A couple of bus routes run through Firrhill.

FlybeDash8Q400 · 3 Apr 2025

InOban said:
The 5 currently terminates at the Morrisons supermarket which is the only full-size supermarket in that part of Edinburgh (except for the Aldi). I would have thought that many people from Oxgangs must need it.

I have often thought about swapping the 5 and 16 at the south end, but never really got any further forward with it as it just resulted in too many problems. The 16 to Torphin isn’t ideal, and for me is a bit of a waste of the XLB’s, but it’s the best out of those options.

InOban · 3 Apr 2025

Siemens Trains said:
Would the Tesco at Colinton Mains be a suitable alternative? A couple of bus routes run through Firrhill.

It's a while since I regularly went to the area - I see it's much larger.
There is a real problem with bus routes that fizzle out in an area of large expensive houses. I can only imagine that any traffic consists of their domestic staff. Dreghorn itself is army housing of course

TheEastCoaster · 4 Apr 2025

CSB0241 said:
I’d maybe have it stop at Gorgie City Farm instead of Dalry Primary School & Stewart Terrace.

I would of maybe just done Tynecastle and then Caladonian Village with all stops to regent road, at that point it compliments the stopping pattern of the X27/28

CSB0241 said:
9: Service rerouted to Ocean Terminal via Bonnington Road & North Junction Street.

Wasen't the whole point of the 9 to help aid the capacity of the 8 from Granton?

CSB0241 said:
10: Service rerouted via Leith Walk & Great Junction Street to aid capacity on Leith Walk.

I assume if the 9 was re-routed, this would of made more sense.

CSB0241 said:
15: Service extended to Penicuik Town Centre via Auchendinny.

This needs to happen, it's been far too long since the 15 has been out of Penicuik

CSB0241 said:
16: Service curtailed to Oxgangs Library. Service 5 will continue to serve Redford, Colinton, & Torphin.

I would of at least extended this to Hunters Tryst if you were swapping the 5 to Torphin.

CSB0241 said:
25: Frequency increased to every 10min Mon-Sat. Most journeys will terminate at Waterloo Place, with buses running to Restalrig every 30min daily & every 40min in the evenings.

That's quite a jump from what we already have, is the 25 not that popular in the evening down Leith?

CSB0241 said:
30: Frequency reduced to every 15min Mon-Sat & every 20min on Sundays. All off-peak & weekend journeys curtailed to Fort Kinnaird West, with peak journeys running along the A1 to Queen Margaret University.

I would of maybe just cut it back to Fort Kinnaird altogether, or had it run via the A1 to QMU.

CSB0241 said:
32: Service curtailed from Balerno to Gyle Centre to improve reliability. Service 70 will continue to provide links between The Gyle & Balerno.

This sounds like a popular idea it seems :lol:

CSB0241 said:
33: Service rerouted from Saughton Mains via Longstone Depot, Hailesland Road, Westside Plaza, & Baberton to Clovenstone Gardens.

So back to the former route pre-2024? i will admit i was surprised they changed the 33 when they did.

CSB0241 said:
34; Weekday journeys will now run via weekend route via Riccarton Mains Road & The Avenue.
35; weekday journeys will run via weekend route off peak. Morning peak journeys to Heriot-Watt & evening peak journeys to Ocean Terminal will run via Riccarton Research Park will run as service 35A.

Gotta feel for the Research Park people, they are really feeling the love here.

CSB0241 said:
38: Service curtailed to Western General Hospital due to relatively low passenger usage on Crewe Road North. Service 22 will continue to serve Crewe Road North & Waterfront Broadway.

Is the 38 really low on numbers between Granton and Western General? i thought it was a popular bus.

CSB0241 said:
X31: New hourly Mon-Sat daytime service introduced to provide Rosewell with a bus service into Edinburgh.

I would of maybe started by extended the Polton Mill 31's to Rosewell and see how the demand was there.

CSB0241 said:
LothianCountry;
X19: Service reduced to every 60min daily off-peak due to low customer usage. Buses will interwork with new service X20 at Waterloo Place. I know reducing service levels isn’t great for competition, but I think Lothian should prioritise improving other areas in West Lothian.

I get what your saying and i do agree, but if they start reducing the X19 they would be aswell as throwing in the towel for that route.

CSB0241 said:
X20: New service between Halcroft Park & Waterloo Place via Hermiston P&R & Gorgie every 60min daily. Service will interwork with service X19 at Waterloo Place.

Without the interworking, this is a good idea.

CSB0241 said:
X27: Frequency increased to every 30min Mon-Sat. Service rerouted from Livingston Centre via old 72 route to Whitburn Town Centre, then via West Main Street to Whitburn West End.

CSB0241 said:
X28: Service increased to every 30min Mon-Sat.

Back to the glory days of the old LCB network :lol:

CSB0241 said:
70: Service extended from Gyle Centre to Balerno via 32 route, providing weekend services between Balerno & Hermiston Gait/The Gyle. Service curtailed to Halcroft Park in Ratho so that the service doesn’t double over itself at Hermiston P&R.

Again, Deja Vu here :lol:

CSB0241 said:
71: Buses will no longer interwork with service 70 to allow for timetable changes to improve reliability.

Well, the 71 needs improving to say the least, so i can't say i disagree here.

CSB0241 said:
72: Service curtailed to Livingston Centre, with service X27 & new 75 replacing western half.

Makes it more reliable to say the least.

CSB0241 said:
73: Frequency increased to every 30min Mon-Sat with new hourly Sunday service introduced. Service extended to Armadale from Bathgate via Bathville. Buses will then split to provide an hourly service to Blackridge Mon-Sat, & an hourly service daily to Honeyman Court.

Livingston gets a service to Armadale, everyone wins.

CSB0241 said:
75: New service between Fauldhouse & Bathgate Station via Whitburn, Blackburn, & Wester Inch, running every 60min Mon-Sat.

I assume this will cover the missing section between Whitburn and Fauldhouse on the 72? good idea!

CSB0241 said:
EastCoastBuses;
X4: Frequency reduced to every hour daily.

Bet the Tranent uses will love this.

CSB0241 said:
X6: Daytime service reintroduced every hour daily. Service rerouted to Haymarket via X4 route. From A1, buses will omit Wallyford, rejoining current route at Dolphinestone Flyover.

Will it still serve Fort Kinnaird?

CSB0241 said:
124: Service rerouted between Levenhall & Johnny Cope Stone via B1348, Ayres Wynd, Preston Road, & Schaw Road to provide better links between the top & bottom ‘pans.’

Good idea in execution but doubt it will happen!

CSB0241 · 4 Apr 2025

InOban said:
The 5 currently terminates at the Morrisons supermarket which is the only full-size supermarket in that part of Edinburgh (except for the Aldi). I would have thought that many people from Oxgangs must need it.

There is also the Tesco, that’s also a pretty big full sized supermarket.

FlybeDash8Q400 said:
I have often thought about swapping the 5 and 16 at the south end, but never really got any further forward with it as it just resulted in too many problems. The 16 to Torphin isn’t ideal, and for me is a bit of a waste of the XLB’s, but it’s the best out of those options.

I think swapping the 5 & 16 at least makes more sense than swapping the 10 & 16, getting an XLB through Bonaly ought to be a death trap waiting to happen. :lol:

TheEastCoaster · 4 Apr 2025

CSB0241 said:
There is also the Tesco, that’s also a pretty big full sized supermarket.

But there is also the housing up at Swanston too? Honestly I think as long as you don't withdraw from the area it should be good.

CSB0241 said:
I think swapping the 5 & 16 at least makes more sense than swapping the 10 & 16, getting an XLB through Bonaly ought to be a death trap waiting to happen.

I think the 16 ran up to Bonaly once when Torphin was closed, I think it is possible but just rare to see!

Lothian group (Network/Route Speculation)

jb66

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InOban

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Siemens Trains

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FlybeDash8Q400

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InOban

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TheEastCoaster

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CSB0241

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TheEastCoaster

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