“ Penzance to Paddington train had to reverse along rails after 'mis-routing'”

[Jimini]

This one just popped up in my newsfeed:

Westcountry train had to reverse along rails after 'mis-routing'

Passengers were left surprised at learning they were heading towards Bristol instead of London - and even more surprised when the driver put the engine into reverse

www.plymouthherald.co.uk

Passengers were left surprised at learning they were heading towards Bristol instead of London - and even more surprised when the driver put the engine into reverse

A train from Penzance had to reverse along the rails after it was 'misrouted' towards Bristol instead of its destination of London.

Passengers were stunned when their train took a "wrong turn" on Saturday, October 28. Jacqui Merrington posted on social media: "Unbelievable stuff. @GWRHelp My train to London has taken a wrong turn and is half way to Bristol. Guessing it’s a @networkrail points thing but still. Farcical. Now reversing back down the track. Massive eye roll."

A spokesperson for Great Western Railway (GWR) later told DevonLive that the incident involved the 7.10am from Penzance to Paddington which was "mis-routed" where the London line met the line to Bristol. The driver immediately stopped the engine but had to wait around 10 minutes to allow for other trains to clear the line before being able to safely reverse and then resume the train's journey.

GWR confirmed the train arrived around 20 minutes late into Paddington and that apologies were made to passengers, informing them that they can apply to the Delay Repay compensation scheme for any delay of more than 15 minutes. GWR also confirmed it would be asking Network Rail - which routes the trains - about the circumstances that led to the mis-routing. It explained that this was not being classed as a safety incident in the same way as it would if the train had passed a red signal.

“We can reassure customers that although the route was set incorrectly, the signals were correct for the route that was set, so the train and its passengers remained in a position of safety throughout."

In other news, I deserve a medal for copying and pasting that off the Reach website on my phone — never seen so many adverts trying to trip me up before!

(Insert joke about trains being put into reverse below…)

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Realtime Trains link for those interested, 800035 + 800013

Realtime Trains | 1A78 0710 Penzance to London Paddington | 28/10/2023

Real-time train running information for 1A78 0710 departure from Penzance to London Paddington on 28/10/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

How much time would it have lost if they'd just continued via Bristol (Assuming the driver knew the route) rather than turning around?
Their only other stop was Reading

 

[Horizon22]

Realtime Trains link for those interested, 800035 + 800013

Realtime Trains | 1A78 0710 Penzance to London Paddington | 28/10/2023

Real-time train running information for 1A78 0710 departure from Penzance to London Paddington on 28/10/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

How much time would it have lost if they'd just continued via Bristol (Assuming the driver knew the route) rather than turning around?
Their only other stop was Reading

About 30+ minutes with a clear run, but you almost certainly wouldn't get that with the traffic around Temple Meads so seeing as it was only 20 minutes late at Reading, seems like the right call.

 

[krus_aragon]

This reminds me of a journey from Cardiff to Crewe on a Sunday morning, when we went round two sides of Maindy (west of Newport). As we sailed past eastwards through Maindee West Jn I had a momentary panic that I was on the wrong train, but the fact that I was on a class 175 reassured me that I hadn't made that mistake.

Shortly thereafter, the driver walked through and we doubled back through Maindee East Jn and turned north. The fact that we hadn't actually lost time (per RTT) suggeseted to me that this was deliberately routed that way for maintaining route knowledge, but I never found out for sure.

 

[Driver068]

Drivers accepting the route and taking it is not uncommon, dont see what the difference is in this case. Id assume the driver did not put it into reverse like you would a car, he/she would of changed ends and set back in order for points to be set with the correct routing. Wording in this article slighlty miss leading.

 

[MP393]

This reminds me of a journey from Cardiff to Crewe on a Sunday morning, when we went round two sides of Maindy (west of Newport). As we sailed past eastwards through Maindee West Jn I had a momentary panic that I was on the wrong train, but the fact that I was on a class 175 reassured me that I hadn't made that mistake.

Shortly thereafter, the driver walked through and we doubled back through Maindee East Jn and turned north. The fact that we hadn't actually lost time (per RTT) suggeseted to me that this was deliberately routed that way for maintaining route knowledge, but I never found out for sure.

This does still occasionally happen there on early morning & late night services for route retention/engineering work, some very early and late night trains will reverse at East Usk and then head north to Cwmbran, or vice versa. Only with Cardiff crew though, Shrewsbury & Crewe train-crew can’t do it.

 

[fgwrich]

Ah, so the driver took a "wrong turn" then "put the engine into reverse" while simultaneously "stopped the engine" according to GWR - That poor IET! Good old Reach again, they really do write some utter

 

[brad465]

It wasn't the only train doing odd "reversing" on the GWR network yesterday, in the afternoon a points failure at Exeter St Davids was leading to some trains running between Exmouth and Paignton and vice versa having to reverse north of the station, rather than in the platforms.

 

[irish_rail]

Not a lot a driver can do at this location if rounding the corner and the signal junction indicator isn't lit (meaning a Bristol routeing). Stick it into emergency and Hope you stop before the junction, however it was impossible in a HST, and I suspect unlikely to be doable in an IET if doing the full 90 to 100mph when sighting the signal.

 

[Master29]

I'm willing to bet most people wouldn't have noticed at first, only once the train stopped and reversed. Blink and you'll miss Cogload.

 

[Gaelan]

Out of curiosity, are route signals given far enough in advance (i.e. where the double yellow would be if the signal were red) that a driver could have stopped before the "wrong turn"? If so, is there a reason the driver didn't do this?

 

[Jimini]

Not a lot a driver can do at this location if rounding the corner and the signal junction indicator isn't lit (meaning a Bristol routeing). Stick it into emergency and Hope you stop before the junction, however it was impossible in a HST, and I suspect unlikely to be doable in an IET if doing the full 90 to 100mph when sighting the signal.

Complete layman question from me but just out of curiosity: would a PRI be of use approaching Cogload junction if the speeds are the same / within threshold?

 

[jfollows]

Out of curiosity, are route signals given far enough in advance (i.e. where the double yellow would be if the signal were red) that a driver could have stopped before the "wrong turn"? If so, is there a reason the driver didn't do this?

If the two routes had significantly different speeds then the route set for the slower route would be obvious well in advance, for example with flashing yellow signals, but it's 90mph to Westbury and 100mph to Bristol so no significant difference, so I imagine the first indication is at the junction signal 193 itself, then it's too late to stop if it's the wrong route as here.
Sectional Appendix at Western & Wales Sectional Appendix September 2023.pdf 110 MB:

 

[CC 72100]

Out of curiosity, are route signals given far enough in advance (i.e. where the double yellow would be if the signal were red) that a driver could have stopped before the "wrong turn"? If so, is there a reason the driver didn't do this?

I don't sign it, but I believe Cogload Junction (if this is where the incident is, which sounds like it) has no routing equipment (such as Preliminary Route Indicator) or signal restrictions for diverging routes in advance of the junction. So the first time a driver knows is when they reach the junction and evidently are going too fast to be able to stop if wrongly routed.

Whilst most junctions have things such as approach control or flashing yellow sequences, there are places where there is nothing and the signalling sequence will be exactly the same for the straight on route as it is for the diverging one.

 

[michael74]

It wasn't the only train doing odd "reversing" on the GWR network yesterday, in the afternoon a points failure at Exeter St Davids was leading to some trains running between Exmouth and Paignton and vice versa having to reverse north of the station, rather than in the platforms.

Happened to me the other week, it was so last minute my driver didn't have time to tell me.... Que slightly panicked pax and a slightly confused guard

 

[dk1]

Doesn’t the wording of the news report & expectation that train drivers just reverse make you want to scream?

 

[DelW]

Doesn’t the wording of the news report & expectation that train drivers just reverse make you want to scream?

Especially that the headline says that the train had to reverse "along rails". How else would it reverse? If it had reversed off the rails it would have been much more noteworthy!

 

[infobleep]

I don't sign it, but I believe Cogload Junction (if this is where the incident is, which sounds like it) has no routing equipment (such as Preliminary Route Indicator) or signal restrictions for diverging routes in advance of the junction. So the first time a driver knows is when they reach the junction and evidently are going too fast to be able to stop if wrongly routed.

Whilst most junctions have things such as approach control or flashing yellow sequences, there are places where there is nothing and the signalling sequence will be exactly the same for the straight on route as it is for the diverging one.

Is there a reason why they don't? Is it cost or other technical reasons?

Especially that the headline says that the train had to reverse "along rails". How else would it reverse? If it had reversed off the rails it would have been much more noteworthy!

I was once on a Virgin train that, if I recall correctly, was sent down a line that was closed, next to a running line that wasn't and it had to be opened for us. I'm going on what the guard or train manager would have said.

I'm sure I didn't dream this. Would have been early noughties.

 

[Pub]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/oops-i-think-you-have-gone-the-wrong-way-usa.92873/

Open this link for A few more on this including the famous HST in a Powerstation

 

[dk1]

Especially that the headline says that the train had to reverse "along rails". How else would it reverse? If it had reversed off the rails it would have been much more noteworthy!

I would be slightly more impressed if they used the word ‘propelled’ regardless of how inaccurately wrong that would be too.

 

[Deepgreen]

Drivers accepting the route and taking it is not uncommon, dont see what the difference is in this case. Id assume the driver did not put it into reverse like you would a car, he/she would of changed ends and set back in order for points to be set with the correct routing. Wording in this article slighlty miss leading.

As is usual in the press, everything railway is translated into car-speak for the xxxx masses! Picture a train driver checking his wing mirrors and a beeper sounding as he reverses!

 

[QueensCurve]

Drivers accepting the route and taking it is not uncommon, dont see what the difference is in this case. Id assume the driver did not put it into reverse like you would a car, he/she would of changed ends and set back in order for points to be set with the correct routing. Wording in this article slighlty miss leading.

I have been on trains where this has happened twice, once at Reading, once at Crewe.

What I don't understand, is why the driver in those cases departed on the wrong route when the signals as observed by me clearly showed the route set.

It would be more difficult at Cogload Junction with it being a high speed turnout particularly if flashing yellows are not provided.

 

[Dieseldriver]

What I don't understand, is why the driver in those cases departed on the wrong route when the signals as observed by me clearly showed the route set.

For the same reason the Signaller set the wrong route in the first place? Because they’re human and aren’t infallible.

 

[irish_rail]

Just to add some facts on this, a route learner was driving with an experienced driver, and they went past the signal by only about 2 carriage lengths. The train didn't even get onto the points for the Bristol route. Both drivers where Plymouth based therefore continuing via Bristol wouldn't be an option in any case. Driver changed ends and reversed back behind the signal and then continued , about 20 late. Pretty creditable actually, well done to the drivers in question.

 

[Taunton]

Would never have happened in olden times, when the route split was made way back at Taunton Station West, several miles before Cogload, and trains for the two routes then used different station platforms, and parallel tracks to the divergence.

In this case I suspect the guard had (possibly inadvisedly) given a bit of detail about why they were going backwards a few coach lengths, and someone breathlessly reported it, all garbled of course, by phone to their favourite newspaper for their 30 seconds of fame.

 

[LAX54]

Not a lot a driver can do at this location if rounding the corner and the signal junction indicator isn't lit (meaning a Bristol routeing). Stick it into emergency and Hope you stop before the junction, however it was impossible in a HST, and I suspect unlikely to be doable in an IET if doing the full 90 to 100mph when sighting the signal.

Trowse Junction is like that, you get a green before you come over the bridge, for whatever route is set, its not until you are over the bridge and by Trowse Loop you see the Junction signal, if it's set wrong, it is quite a sharp stop, its about 50/50 that stop before or after signal.

 

[dk1]

Trowse Junction is like that, you get a green before you come over the bridge, for whatever route is set, its not until you are over the bridge and by Trowse Loop you see the Junction signal, if it's set wrong, it is quite a sharp stop, its about 50/50 that stop before or after signal.

It’s made worse if the stone train is in the loop. Under normal circumstances and with the excellent brakes on the Stadler fleet we will be able stop from 40mph. Most of Ely is signalled in the same way as similar speeds on all routes inc turnouts.

 

[LAX54]

It’s made worse if the stone train is in the loop. Under normal circumstances and with the excellent brakes on the Stadler fleet we will be able stop from 40mph. Most of Ely is signalled in the same way as similar speeds on all routes inc turnouts.

Recall a good few years ago, a hauled set came ou of CP for London, was wrong routed at Trowse, the whole train wnt past 552 and cleared the track circuit ahead of the signal, the Pilot came ouit to drag it back !

 

[dk1]

Recall a good few years ago, a hauled set came ou of CP for London, was wrong routed at Trowse, the whole train wnt past 552 and cleared the track circuit ahead of the signal, the Pilot came ouit to drag it back !

I once dragged a 90/DVT intercity set back after an unfortunate wrong routing that the driver didn’t notice. Ironically the route indicator (feather) is for the Thetford line which is actually the straight ahead route. Back in semaphore days that line had the main arm with the lower one for Diss.

I also recall a Central Trains service taking the Ipswich route and returning to Trowse Jcn via the position light. A BBC journalist was on board and reported this to the local media. On BBC Look East that night the presenter ended up with egg on his face after thinking he’d got one coup of a story and making out all the passengers were put in severe danger. Network Rail corrected him and put him in his place time and time again. Made great television.

 

[sprunt]

Just to add some facts on this, a route learner was driving with an experienced driver, and they went past the signal by only about 2 carriage lengths. The train didn't even get onto the points for the Bristol route. Both drivers where Plymouth based therefore continuing via Bristol wouldn't be an option in any case. Driver changed ends and reversed back behind the signal and then continued , about 20 late. Pretty creditable actually, well done to the drivers in question.

If the train didn't reach the points, why did it have to reverse back to the signal? Is it something to do with the points and the signal being part of the same system and so the points can't just be moved with the train where it was?