Jonah Kemp
On Moderation
Hi guys, I was wondering how much longer the 72 tube stock has left in service before it gets replaced. Should they do the Bakerloo before the Piccadilly instead due to older trains or not.
There are no replacements funded for the Bakerloo line. Therefore the 72 stock has a number of years yet. They will replace the Piccadilly line stock first, as that is what is currently being built.Hi guys, I was wondering how much longer the 72 tube stock has left in service before it gets replaced. Should they do the Bakerloo before the Piccadilly instead due to older trains or not.
Replacing a train fleet is a process involving roughly a decade of planning — it's about 8 years too late to think about which line gets the first batch.Should they do the Bakerloo before the Piccadilly instead due to older trains or not.
Why does it take so long these days?Replacing a train fleet is a process involving roughly a decade of planning — it's about 8 years too late to think about which line gets the first batch.
I heard rumours that some of the 1973 stock may cascade to the Bakerloo Line (once the 2024 stock is in traffic) for use as a spares donor to keep the 1972 stock running until replacement.The earliest could potentially see any is probably mid 2027, maybe into 2018, following on from Piccadilly line trains. But none have been authorised yet so could be years later.
Potentially one of the Piccadilly line trains is loaned for testing on Bakerloo, sometime before main batch, but none have been delivered to Piccadilly yet.
Why does it take so long these days?
Why, fundamentally, does it need to be a decade long process when in the past it took far less time?
There are few mechanical parts that are common between these two Stock.I heard rumours that some of the 1973 stock may cascade to the Bakerloo Line (once the 2024 stock is in traffic) for use as a spares donor to keep the 1972 stock running until replacement.
When you hear that age old saying London gets all the investment and the North gets nothing but cascades, it's strange to think that the 72 stock are, off the top of my head, the oldest stock still running in daily service in the UK...
I wouldn't be surprised if the order was place before the next General Election, to get some positive headlines for the Conservatives giving work to the Goole factory.I wouldn't be surprised if Sadiq Khan is counting on a funding deal by the Labour Government so they can order the new Bakerloo Line trains either late this year or early next year. The 1972 stock is becoming increasingly expensive to maintain and there is only so long it can keep going.
How bad would it be to award a contract to the Goole factory at the same time that the debate about Derby is still going on? Whilst it is apparent that TfL is likely to go back to Siemens for the Bakerloo stock, it would be someone rubbing the noses of Derby workers in the sand if it were announced right now.I wouldn't be surprised if the order was place before the next General Election, to get some positive headlines for the Conservatives giving work to the Goole factory.
I meant use as a spares donor or heavily stripped for parts. I did not mention the 73TS in traffic on the Bakerloo Line because the cars are too short.And as has been said a lot, and I mean a lot of times. 1973TS will not fit on the Bakerloo in general service.
Nowt from 73TS fits 72TS. Even the push buttons and whatnot are mostly different…I meant use as a spares donor or heavily stripped for parts. I did not mention the 73TS in traffic on the Bakerloo Line because the cars are too short.
It is a follow on order with an option available to be exercised already present in the contract. Why would they voluntarily go out and design a new train to be brought to market for tender if said cheaper option already exists? The entire point of NTfL was to standardise tube stock and the market was fully aware of this.Whilst it is apparent that TfL is likely to go back to Siemens for the Bakerloo stock
I agree with you. However, the upshot is that the announcement of funding for Bakerloo stock doesn't need to be made now, it can wait until the end of 2026.It is a follow on order with an option available to be exercised already present in the contract. Why would they voluntarily go out and design a new train to be brought to market for tender if said cheaper option already exists? The entire point of NTfL was to standardise tube stock and the market was fully aware of this.
I disagree. If other manufacturers don't get orders, they'll be unhappy with the special treatment Derby is gettingHowever, the upshot is that the announcement of funding for Bakerloo stock doesn't need to be made now, it can wait until the end of 2026.
There are other rolling stock contracts up for grabs such as Southeastern to replace the Networkers for example and the CR4000 replacement on the London Trams which while not a huge order will have interest.I disagree. If other manufacturers don't get orders, they'll be unhappy with the special treatment Derby is getting
Alstom/Derby aren't competing for tube trains now, having lost the first NTfL order. And Goole with plenty of Underground work removes them as a potential competitor for future "UK assembled" National Rail stock.How bad would it be to award a contract to the Goole factory at the same time that the debate about Derby is still going on? Whilst it is apparent that TfL is likely to go back to Siemens for the Bakerloo stock, it would be someone rubbing the noses of Derby workers in the sand if it were announced right now.
There was the reign of a COO that did not want to hold any 'unnecessary spares' or keep any 'unnecessary capability' between the scrapping of 1972Mk.1/1967TS and today though.Would’ve thought when 67/72Mk1 stock was scrapped things like motors,MAs,compressors,PCMs and door & brake valves were recovered for a float of spares for 72Mk2 stock.
Which would mean they'd need to start production and deliveries no later than late 2026, early 2027 perhaps? It would work if they carry on directly after the Piccadilly.I did read in one magazine that bakerloo line needs to have hew stock before 2029 as the 1972 stock as it stands did nor have permission to run beyond that date