19th July Lockdown Easing - Observations and Compliance

[NorthKent1989]

How do you know the signage is still there for covid reasons? It could have been deliberately been kept in place because it has resulted in a better flow of the movement of people through the station. Not following the signage could confuse other passengers or make things more difficult for staff there, so the best thing is to follow it until taken down.

Easier for whom? What if a particular exit is easier for someone disabled or physically impaired? Are you then advocating, They make their lives harder just because of rules or signages? If passengers are that easily confused then they shouldn’t be using public transportation at all, so in that regard I’ll do what’s best and easiest for me.

Completely agree with you but some people seem to want rules and restrictions to carry on.

Exactly this, sadly these very people are the group the media becomes the mouthpiece for.

 

[Philip]

Easier for whom? What if a particular exit is easier for someone disabled or physically impaired? Are you then advocating, They make their lives harder just because of rules or signages? If passengers are that easily confused then they shouldn’t be using public transportation at all, so in that regard I’ll do what’s best and easiest for me.




Exactly this, sadly these very people are the group the media becomes the mouthpiece for.

Obviously there are exceptions as the examples you have mentioned, but overall the best thing is just to follow door signage at stations if it is there..and not seemingly take pride in going against it by boasting about it as a few posts up. Doesn't come across well.

 

[greyman42]

Obviously there are exceptions as the examples you have mentioned, but overall the best thing is just to follow door signage at stations if it is there..and not seemingly take pride in going against it by boasting about it as a few posts up. Doesn't come across well.

Well it came across to me as OK.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Obviously there are exceptions as the examples you have mentioned, but overall the best thing is just to follow door signage at stations if it is there..and not seemingly take pride in going against it by boasting about it as a few posts up. Doesn't come across well.

And flag waving about unnecessary rules which are now out of date isnt a good look either.

That’s still not a good enough reason, if it worked before Covid it’ll work again, the fact is some people don’t want the rules to ever end and are looking for ways to carry them on

 

[Green tractor]

And flag waving about unnecessary rules which are now out of date isnt a good look either.

That’s still not a good enough reason, if it worked before Covid it’ll work again, the fact is some people don’t want the rules to ever end and are looking for ways to carry them on

Could you point me to some of these people who dont ever want things to return to normal please?

 

[Darandio]

Could you point me to some of these people who dont ever want things to return to normal please?

Although polls normally have loaded questions and are generally rubbish, just look at those such as the one from Ipsos Mori in July. 19% of people want a permanent 10pm curfew or 26% who want nightclubs and casinos closed forever. It's only a couple of months since a retired scientist stated he wanted a permanent lockdown.

Whilse those figures are not representative of the overall population, it's clear there are people out there who would love things to never return to normal.

 

[island]

Regardless of the reasoning, if signs are instructing passengers where to enter and where to exit the station, then people should still be following them. It is a bit petty to deliberately ignore and go against signage, particularly in a very busy place like this.

More than petty, it’s an offence under section 9 (4) of the Railway Byelaws.

 

[Green tractor]

Although polls normally have loaded questions and are generally rubbish, just look at those such as the one from Ipsos Mori in July. 19% of people want a permanent 10pm curfew or 26% who want nightclubs and casinos closed forever. It's only a couple of months since a retired scientist stated he wanted a permanent lockdown.

Whilse those figures are not representative of the overall population, it's clear there are people out there who would love things to never return to normal.

The majority of the 26% who want night clubs permanently closed are probably opposed to them existing on moral or religious grounds anyway.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Could you point me to some of these people who dont ever want things to return to normal please?

Well a fair few people on here for starters, you only have to look on this forum and other threads and on social media, there’s a fair few locktavists, so if you want your answer it really isn’t that hard to look for those people who want restrictions to continue, there’s your answer.

 

[Green tractor]

Well a fair few people on here for starters, you only have to look on this forum and other threads and on social media, there’s a fair few locktavists, so if you want your answer it really isn’t that hard to look for those people who want restrictions to continue, there’s your answer.

There is a difference between wanting to remain cautious for the time being, or until next spring, and NEVER wanting things to return to normal. Full 100% as things were before will probably never happen. Testing and isolating of positive cases will probably just become part of life for a while until we can really drive down the numbers who end up in hospital, although monoclonal antibody treatment, might make a big difference to that.

​

 

[NorthKent1989]

There is a difference between wanting to remain cautious for the time being, or until next spring, and NEVER wanting things to return to normal. Full 100% as things were before will probably never happen. Testing and isolating of positive cases will probably just become part of life for a while until we can really drive down the numbers who end up in hospital, although monoclonal antibody treatment, might make a big difference to that.

​

Why do we have to remain cautious at all? Vaccinations are up, no increases in deaths, Covid is becoming something we can adapt to, the time for being cautious is long past.

If we don’t learn to live with this how we never will, it’ll only become cautious until spring 2022……2023….2024.

Thankfully the majority of people I know and come across know this and are getting back to normal rather than continuing this unnecessarily.

 

[johnnychips]

Obviously there are exceptions as the examples you have mentioned, but overall the best thing is just to follow door signage at stations if it is there..and not seemingly take pride in going against it by boasting about it as a few posts up. Doesn't come across well.

I think people ignore signs for two reasons:

-there are so many signs at stations they just become a blur and are unwittingly ignored

-people realise they are pointless or even counter-productive. A train arrives at Doncaster, and everybody has to cram down one staircase instead of two because of the Covid one-way system. Really great for social distancing. Now it’s finished, everybody is nicely spread out.

 

[bramling]

There is a difference between wanting to remain cautious for the time being, or until next spring, and NEVER wanting things to return to normal. Full 100% as things were before will probably never happen. Testing and isolating of positive cases will probably just become part of life for a while until we can really drive down the numbers who end up in hospital, although monoclonal antibody treatment, might make a big difference to that.

​

The trouble is, be cautious until when? Most of us wrote off 2020. 2021 has been more nuanced, but it certainly hasn’t been a good year from my perspective (to be fair the poor spring / summer weather was the real deal-breaker for me more so than anything else, but it comes after 2020).

No respite at work either. Last year my place was under-resourced as a result of Covid, but this wasn’t too much of an issue as lockdown meant we were doing a lot less. This year it’s been similar under-resourcing, but with a much more normal level of workload. There comes a point where enough’s enough of that.

We have to ask ourselves the question as to when the cure becomes worse than the virus, and I suspect many people would now say we have reached that point.

I feel really malaised by all this now, and that’s hardly a good position to be starting the winter. An earlier end to restrictions (in particular being able to stay in a hotel) would have helped for me, and the whole staycation frenzy has been a nuisance too.

We’re now approaching the winter months where it will be several months of short days, and probable changeable weather. It’s hardly great to be going into that feeling tired and irritable, as many people I know say they feel.

Another big moan I’m hearing is people complaining they’re unable to get seen by their GP, so are worried they could have something serious lying undetected and therefore untreated.

 

[Merseysider]

Are masks still “compulsory” on the Underground and/or the DLR?

I’ve made a couple of journeys tonight and I’ve seen hardly anybody wearing one.

I was at a gig in Camden earlier tonight - no distancing, no masks, and £6.80 a pint. Just like 2019

 

[Huntergreed]

Are masks still “compulsory” on the Underground and/or the DLR?

They are, in theory, a condition of carriage, however it is not enforced at all.

I’ve made a couple of journeys tonight and I’ve seen hardly anybody wearing one.

Good to hear

I was at a gig in Camden earlier tonight - no distancing, no masks,

This isn’t a crime anymore and it’s about time people started to act accordingly, it’s good to hear this!

and £6.80 a pint.

This, on the other hand, is most certainly criminal!

 

[MikeWM]

The trouble is, be cautious until when?

Exactly so. The virus is becoming (or has already become) endemic. The vast majority of people have been vaccinated. Things really aren't going to get any better - as far as the epidemic goes, at least - than they are now.

Logically, anything people are still doing now 'to be cautious' will still need to be doing those things 2, 10, or 50 years from now.

 

[Merseysider]

This isn’t a crime anymore and it’s about time people started to act accordingly, it’s good to hear this!

Agreed!

We cannot live our lives in fear of something we’ve been vaccinated against.

 

[NorthKent1989]

£6.80 a pint. Just like 2019

This is the worst thing I’ve seen on that list Hope you had a great time!

 

[Huntergreed]

Exactly so. The virus is becoming (or has already become) endemic. The vast majority of people have been vaccinated. Things really aren't going to get any better - as far as the epidemic goes, at least - than they are now.

Logically, anything people are still doing now 'to be cautious' will still need to be doing those things 2, 10, or 50 years from now.

This is precisely the issue we now face, nationally.

The virus is obviously not going to go away. Anyone who thinks at this stage that the virus can or indeed should be 'eliminated' or even 'suppressed' has clearly not thought rationally about the prevalence of the virus or the severe economic, social and wider public health implications of continuing to support such ridiculously disproportionate statutory interventions.

The argument that we must be 'cautious' is simply a way for those in government to pander (and I'm sorry to say, but it is at this stage a case of pandering) to those who are still afraid of the virus due to the disgustingly aggressive, over-the-top government and media messaging issued earlier this year.

I am not blaming anyone for supporting these measures out of anxiety/being afraid of catching this virus (I have developed and managed to resolve a pretty severe case of health anxiety earlier this year, and I completely understand how it feels). I am blaming an incompetent, clueless government for not considering the wider impact (particularly on mental wellbeing) of approving TV adverts showing someone dying in a hospital on a ventilator, with a suggestion that not following the 'precautions' would result in an individual and/or their loved ones from ending up in this position.

It is expected that people, particularly those who were shielding and/or classed as vulnerable, will still feel a degree of fear surrounding this virus. I do not blame them for taking personal measures (there are some effective things they can do to protect themselves should they wish to do so, including wearing an FFP2 or FFP3 mask, avoiding crowded places/events and practising good hand hygiene). I am, however, very concerned that instead of this sensible position, we are now defaulting to a society where it is a legal requirement for everyone to face highly disruptive and, in some cases, completely ineffective and pointless measures (such as population wide face-covering mandates) just to pander to those who have been worst-affected by the disgracefully aggressive government campaigns. We are also placing healthy people under statutory house arrest just to ensure those who are anxious feel 'safer' and more assured to go about their daily lives (there is no real reason to still isolate those who are carrying but not suffering from the virus, it is endemic and we now have wide population immunity, from an epidemiological perspective this seems insane).

I suspect that the calls to reimpose even harsher restrictions will just get louder and louder as winter approaches and cases inevitably rise. I can see Sturgeon and Drakeford reimposing certain restrictions (such as social distancing, closing nightclubs, introducing alcohol bans and curfews on hospitality and perhaps even travel restrictions) as this will, politically, stand them in good stead (particularly from the media, who will doubtless praise their 'sensible caution' rather than calling out this insanity for what it really is). Retaining any population restrictions beyond this point is pointless and wasting money for no reason, as the virus is endemic and will, at one point or another, spread to all of us.

 

[bramling]

This is precisely the issue we now face, nationally.

The virus is obviously not going to go away. Anyone who thinks at this stage that the virus can or indeed should be 'eliminated' or even 'suppressed' has clearly not thought rationally about the prevalence of the virus or the severe economic, social and wider public health implications of continuing to support such ridiculously disproportionate statutory interventions.

The argument that we must be 'cautious' is simply a way for those in government to pander (and I'm sorry to say, but it is at this stage a case of pandering) to those who are still afraid of the virus due to the disgustingly aggressive, over-the-top government and media messaging issued earlier this year.

I am not blaming anyone for supporting these measures out of anxiety/being afraid of catching this virus (I have developed and managed to resolve a pretty severe case of health anxiety earlier this year, and I completely understand how it feels). I am blaming an incompetent, clueless government for not considering the wider impact (particularly on mental wellbeing) of approving TV adverts showing someone dying in a hospital on a ventilator, with a suggestion that not following the 'precautions' would result in an individual and/or their loved ones from ending up in this position.

It is expected that people, particularly those who were shielding and/or classed as vulnerable, will still feel a degree of fear surrounding this virus. I do not blame them for taking personal measures (there are some effective things they can do to protect themselves should they wish to do so, including wearing an FFP2 or FFP3 mask, avoiding crowded places/events and practising good hand hygiene). I am, however, very concerned that instead of this sensible position, we are now defaulting to a society where it is a legal requirement for everyone to face highly disruptive and, in some cases, completely ineffective and pointless measures (such as population wide face-covering mandates) just to pander to those who have been worst-affected by the disgracefully aggressive government campaigns. We are also placing healthy people under statutory house arrest just to ensure those who are anxious feel 'safer' and more assured to go about their daily lives (there is no real reason to still isolate those who are carrying but not suffering from the virus, it is endemic and we now have wide population immunity, from an epidemiological perspective this seems insane).

I suspect that the calls to reimpose even harsher restrictions will just get louder and louder as winter approaches and cases inevitably rise. I can see Sturgeon and Drakeford reimposing certain restrictions (such as social distancing, closing nightclubs, introducing alcohol bans and curfews on hospitality and perhaps even travel restrictions) as this will, politically, stand them in good stead (particularly from the media, who will doubtless praise their 'sensible caution' rather than calling out this insanity for what it really is). Retaining any population restrictions beyond this point is pointless and wasting money for no reason, as the virus is endemic and will, at one point or another, spread to all of us.

A strong leader would have addressed the nation by now. Not that I enjoy seeing Boris's increasingly creepy and bedraggled persona on my tv screen, however August into September would have been the ideal time to outline the plan for taking things forward, and to make clear to everyone the challenges faced, how the government in their best judgement feel the people should deal with things, and going through the various competing factors in an honest but reassuring way. A proper parliamentary debate should then have followed.

Instead BJ seems more interested in rubbish like cabless Tube trains, just like the attitude which has seen the foreign sec on holiday for one of the biggest foreign policy issues in many years.

Once again, as a nation we're drifting whichever way the tide takes us, which is a pretty rubbish situation considering the one thing we seem to have done fairly well has been the vaccine roll-out.

Might as well start stockpiling those toilet rolls ready for whenever the 8pm lockdown speech comes...

 

[DustyBin]

A strong leader would have addressed the nation by now. Not that I enjoy seeing Boris's increasingly creepy and bedraggled persona on my tv screen, however August into September would have been the ideal time to outline the plan for taking things forward, and to make clear to everyone the challenges faced, how the government in their best judgement feel the people should deal with things, and going through the various competing factors in an honest but reassuring way. A proper parliamentary debate should then have followed.

Instead BJ seems more interested in rubbish like cabless Tube trains, just like the attitude which has seen the foreign sec on holiday for one of the biggest foreign policy issues in many years.

Once again, as a nation we're drifting whichever way the tide takes us, which is a pretty rubbish situation considering the one thing we seem to have done fairly well has been the vaccine roll-out.

Might as well start stockpiling those toilet rolls ready for whenever the 8pm lockdown speech comes...

I agree there should have been an address at this point with the message being “keep calm and carry on” (or words to that effect) but as you point out, the government simply make it up as they go along. This leaves plenty of room for poor decision making and chaos as we’ve seen previously, which is a little worrying.

 

[ExRes]

Went for a trip out on a Bluebell Railway Fish & Chip train last night, an amazing amount of people were wearing masks in the car park area and the outdoor queue to have their tickets checked, the Bluebell chap made it quite plain that masks were not required at any point on the premises or train which resulted in 95% removal, all the staff on train were wearing them while serving food, perhaps this is a requirement? overall a very nearly normal evening out

 

[Yew]

There is a difference between wanting to remain cautious for the time being, or until next spring, and NEVER wanting things to return to normal. Full 100% as things were before will probably never happen. Testing and isolating of positive cases will probably just become part of life for a while until we can really drive down the numbers who end up in hospital, although monoclonal antibody treatment, might make a big difference to that.

​

I don't think continuing with harmful measures for longer than necessary could ever be described as caution.

 

[Merseysider]

Member of staff on my DLR just now (not driver, no idea what you officially call the staff - train attendant?) very eager to make announcements - including one that you must wear a face covering unless you are exempt and “displaying an official TfL issued exemption badge”.

At least 75% of the passengers continued to happily ignore him, but the announcement doesn’t sound right to me - we wouldn’t force disabled passengers (or any other section of society) to openly identify themselves as such in any other scenario; TfL should be no different.

 

[Green tractor]

I don't think continuing with harmful measures for longer than necessary could ever be described as caution.

I'm not talking about harmful measures, I'm talking about remaining cautious. Are you suggesting isolation of people with covid shouldnt happen at the moment?

 

[43066]

There is a difference between wanting to remain cautious for the time being, or until next spring, and NEVER wanting things to return to normal. Full 100% as things were before will probably never happen. Testing and isolating of positive cases will probably just become part of life for a while until we can really drive down the numbers who end up in hospital, although monoclonal antibody treatment, might make a big difference to that.

Again, I find it very difficult to understand this viewpoint of what (unless your name is Jacinda Adern or Nicola Sturgeon) is inevitably going to become an endemic virus with a low death rate. Pre Covid nobody was suggesting these kinds of measures for flu despite suffering tens of thousands of deaths from this annually.

The hard truth is there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent this virus continuing to spread and causing deaths, overwhelmingly amongst elderly and vulnerable people (albeit far fewer than was the case pre vaccine). In any case many of the measures we have seen over the last few months (one way systems, screens, masks in particular) have been economically damaging, but have also been largely ineffective, so why continue with them?

 

[NorthKent1989]

I'm not talking about harmful measures, I'm talking about remaining cautious. Are you suggesting isolation of people with covid shouldnt happen at the moment?

No, no one should be isolating at this point, we’re not in March 2020, most of the population have been vaccinated that was the whole point of the vaccines so we could get back to some normality was it not? (Totalitarian passports non-withstanding) Covid quite literally isn’t the end of the world at this point.

Life must go on, or else we’ll be cautiously following the rules years after they’re redundant.

If we have to be cautious over a virus with a 99% survival rate then let’s be cautious about everything else that may or may not kill or harm us.

 

[Bikeman78]

What people fail to realise that these incidents were a tiny drop in the ocean. The media played it out to be on such a large scale and that it was responsible for all the ills of the situation. When in fact it was a tiny minority of 67m people and made absolutely ZERO difference to the spread of the virus.

The fact that people are so easily lead is quite remark-able

Especially when you consider that most people were still going to supermarkets throughout all lockdowns and restrictions. In Wales most people were unmasked until mid September 2020, despite no vaccines. Makes the continued mandate here all the more bizarre.

Are masks still “compulsory” on the Underground and/or the DLR?

I’ve made a couple of journeys tonight and I’ve seen hardly anybody wearing one.

I was at a gig in Camden earlier tonight - no distancing, no masks, and £6.80 a pint. Just like 2019

Yes they are. Though ironically I think fewer people wear them down there than on National Rail trains.

 

[Green tractor]

Again, I find it very difficult to understand this viewpoint of what (unless your name is Jacinda Adern or Nicola Sturgeon) is inevitably going to become an endemic virus with a low death rate. Pre Covid nobody was suggesting these kinds of measures for flu despite suffering tens of thousands of deaths from this annually.

The hard truth is there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent this virus continuing to spread and causing deaths, overwhelmingly amongst elderly and vulnerable people (albeit far fewer than was the case pre vaccine). In any case many of the measures we have seen over the last few months (one way systems, screens, masks in particular) have been economically damaging, but have also been largely ineffective, so why continue with them?

Screens and masks are not economically damaging, closing things is.

Jacinda Adern's policy has proved to be the right one for her country (assuming they deal with the current outbreak) She has never said it is the long term policy, vaccination is.

No, no one should be isolating at this point, we’re not in March 2020, most of the population have been vaccinated that was the whole point of the vaccines so we could get back to some normality was it not? (Totalitarian passports non-withstanding) Covid quite literally isn’t the end of the world at this point.

Life must go on, or else we’ll be cautiously following the rules years after they’re redundant.

If we have to be cautious over a virus with a 99% survival rate then let’s be cautious about everything else that may or may not kill or harm us.

Its a bit difficult, we don't know how things are going to pan out this winter, cases are about to massively rise with the return to school in England. Quite what that will do to hospital admissions in a couple of months time remains to be seen. The virus might now reach some sort of natural peak before Christmas, or it might not.

 

[greyman42]

Could you point me to some of these people who dont ever want things to return to normal please?

People who don't want to have to return to the office.

More than petty, it’s an offence under section 9 (4) of the Railway Byelaws.

So what, nothing is going to be done about it and rightly so.

Its a bit difficult, we don't know how things are going to pan out this winter, cases are about to massively rise with the return to school in England. Quite what that will do to hospital admissions in a couple of months time remains to be seen. The virus might now reach some sort of natural peak before Christmas, or it might not.

So in other words you have not got a clue.