1st class lounge access

[Flying Snail]

I am looking for any official information on which tickets are valid for access to 1st class lounges and indeed which, if any, are not valid. Having looked at the websites of LNER, Avanti, GWR and Scotrail there is little solid information.

I have a specific reason for asking but I'd rather not say. I do not want to ask directly about specifics as it seems that contradictory information is being provided from various sources.

 

[ainsworth74]

Basically any first class ticket which is valid for travel on the operator of the lounges services (whether or not you intend to use their service or not, though I wouldn't advertise the fact you weren't!). So, for example, a First Anytime Return from Newcastle to York would be valid in the Newcastle lounge even if you were actually going to travel on CrossCountry. But a First Advance for travel on a Transpennine service would not be valid in the Newcastle lounge. I've used a First Class Travelcard in the Paddington and Liverpool Street lounges as well (wouldn't have been valid in Euston and King's Cross as VTEC and VTWC didn't operate any services it could be used on) for instance.

There used to be some daft rules around minimum values or certain ticket types requiring a supplement but I believe those sorts of rules were ditched long ago and now its basically entirely down to is the ticket valid on the operator of the lounges services? If yes, enter. If no, back to the scum class waiting room with you.

As for "official information" I suspect that there probably isn't anything that you can point to specifically beyond whatever you've found on the relevant TOC pages. National Rail seems to be silent on the issue.

 

[Flying Snail]

Basically any first class ticket which is valid for travel on the operator of the lounges services

This is what I always understood it to be, and my use of the lounges matched this.

However an "official" source is directly contradicting this with regards to certain tickets.

 

[ainsworth74]

Fascinating, well I guess we'll wait and see if anyone else has any ideas on this thread.

 

[lachlan]

In my only First Class experience I had a Interrail and wanted to see if I could use the GWR lounge at Paddington. I didn't get an answer to whether it was valid or not as the staff member didn't check our tickets...

 

[Flying Snail]

I know that intentionally being vague about this is annoying, I hate it when others do it, sorry...

I was hoping to find some published information, I am sure there used to be more specific lists of tickets on some of the TOC sites but that would be going back to Virgin and East Coast days or earlier.

Just to say, this wasn't an individual lounge dragon refusing entry, it is someone speaking on behalf of the whole industry, across all TOCs.

 

[D6130]

In my experience of two first class All-line Rovers, I've had no problems accessing the first class lounges at Aberdeen, Edinburgh, York, Euston, Kings Cross and Paddington.

 

[signed]

Most lounges are operated by private companies, so it's usually a gamble

I was able to enter Avanti Euston lounge with my Interrail 1st

 

[Wallsendmag]

Most lounges are operated by private companies, so it's usually a gamble

I was able to enter Avanti Euston lounge with my Interrail 1st

Are you sure about that?

 

[signed]

Are you sure about that?

I don't have any proofs or anything but If it's the same as airlines, yes. It's mostly contractor/handler ran

Even the Aer Lingus T2 lounge at Dublin is operated by a handler despite being airline name.

 

[skyhigh]

I don't have any proofs or anything but If it's the same as airlines

I'm pretty sure in most cases it isn't.

 

[D6130]

Most lounges are operated by private companies, so it's usually a gamble

Aberdeen is run by ScotRail; Edinburgh and York (and I think Kings Cross....although I haven't used it) by LNER; Euston by Avanti WC and Paddington by GWR. I'm pretty sure that they are not operated by third-party handlers. When I used the ScotRail lounge at Aberdeen, it was unstaffed and access was gained by showing my ticket to a doorcam.

 

[signed]

Ok, my bad, I assumed it was like airline lounge where access can definitely be a gamble

 

[Flying Snail]

I don't have any proofs or anything but If it's the same as airlines, yes. It's mostly contractor/handler ran

Even the Aer Lingus T2 lounge at Dublin is operated by a handler despite being airline name.

AFAIK all UK TOC lounges are staffed by TOC staff, Airline lounges are of no consequence.

As I said, it is not a case of lounge staff refusing access, rather an apparently official statement that certain 1st class tickets are not valid at any lounge which directly contradicts the idea that any ticket valid in 1st on routes oprated by the lounge TOC are valid for access.

When I read this my first reaction was that it was 100% garbage from yet another supposed rail industry expert but as I have been unable to find any official terms either proving or disproving it I can't really state as a fact that they are spouting BS.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't have any proofs or anything but If it's the same as airlines, yes.

It is not the same as the airlines. TOC lounges are operated and staffed directly.

AFAIK all UK TOC lounges are staffed by TOC staff, Airline lounges are of no consequence.

As I said, it is not a case of lounge staff refusing access, rather an apparently official statement that certain 1st class tickets are not valid at any lounge which directly contradicts the idea that any ticket valid in 1st on routes oprated by the lounge TOC are valid for access.

When I read this my first reaction was that it was 100% garbage from yet another supposed rail industry expert but as I have been unable to find any official terms either proving or disproving it I can't really state as a fact that they are spouting BS.

TOCs set their own rules, for each lounge, so I'm not sure how we can help unless we know what was said, by whom, and on whose behalf. Sounds like a guessing game.

 

[island]

I would also agree that we can't give good advice based on the vagaries seen so far.

I vaguely recall an issue some years ago about LNER or one of its predecessors refusing access at Edinburgh W on a ticket to Haymarket on the grounds the journey was "too short". I wonder if this is similar.

 

[lachlan]

I would also agree that we can't give good advice based on the vagaries seen so far.

I vaguely recall an issue some years ago about LNER or one of its predecessors refusing access at Edinburgh W on a ticket to Haymarket on the grounds the journey was "too short". I wonder if this is similar.

Are there any minimum journey length rules surrounding this? It may actually make sense to do this just to get a nice place to sit in Waverley...

 

[ainsworth74]

Are there any minimum journey length rules surrounding this? It may actually make sense to do this just to get a nice place to sit in Waverley..

LNER's website is silent on the matter therefore I would consider that no such thing applies. This is the eligibility criteria on their website:

Eligible ticket types for First Class lounges

Tickets Accepted in LNER First Class Lounge:

• Fully inter-available First Class Season Ticket (i.e. tickets not specific to one train company)
• Any First Class Anytime ticket valid for travel on the LNER route
• Any LNER First Class packages
• First Advance (routed LNER & connections)
• LNER First Class Reader Offer (routed LNER & connections)
• LNER First Class Flat Fare (routed LNER & connections)
• LNER Rewards First Class Leisure Single (routed LNER & connections)
• LNER Self-Print First Class Upgrade voucher (routed LNER & connections)
• Inclusive Tour Tickets (eg. Superbreak)
• Weekend First
• Caledonian Sleeper First Class

Edinburgh Waverley First Class Lounge

If you've bought a First Class ticket to or from Edinburgh Waverley you have access to our luxurious First Class lounge at the station.

www.lner.co.uk

 

[Watershed]

Without more information on the claim made (and who has made it) it's going to be essentially impossible for us to verify its accuracy.

Is it something along the lines of Interrail passes or All Line Rovers not being valid in first class lounges?

 

[Bungle965]

I do wonder what would happen if you presented your ticket on a Smartcard in a lot of these lounges. Presumably the member of staff is unlikely to have access to a ticket validation device.

 

[Haywain]

Presumably the member of staff is unlikely to have access to a ticket validation device.

You mean like a mobile phone?

 

[MrJeeves]

In my only First Class experience I had a Interrail and wanted to see if I could use the GWR lounge at Paddington. I didn't get an answer to whether it was valid or not as the staff member didn't check our tickets...

I've used Interrail in every first class lounge I've tried with success :P

There used to be some daft rules around minimum values or certain ticket types requiring a supplement but I believe those sorts of rules were ditched long ago

I'm sure I saw something outside and LNER lounge about a minimum fare semi-recently but I can't find it now. I think it was on the door to the Edinburgh lounge?

 

[Hadders]

I've used a few 1st Class lounges recently that now have barcode scanners to check tickets - Kings Cross and Euston to name a couple.

 

[MrJeeves]

I've used a few 1st Class lounges recently that now have barcode scanners to check tickets - Kings Cross and Euston to name a couple.

Haven't they both had them for at least a year now?

Birmingham New Street use a phone based scanner and is also the one place in the UK which has asked for ID along with my Interrail pass.

 

[Hadders]

Haven't they both had them for at least a year now?

Birmingham New Street use a phone based scanner and is also the one place in the UK which has asked for ID along with my Interrail pass.

Probably - I don't get to use the lounges that often!

The lounge at BHM was closed due to staff shortage when I was there last week, so I was unable to check it out.

 

[MrJeeves]

The lounge at BHM was closed due to staff shortage when I was there last week, so I was unable to check it out.

Yeah, unfortunately a rather common occurrence on the couple of times I've passed by!

 

[Bungle965]

You mean like a mobile phone?

With either a ticket validation app installed or National Rail Smartcard manager. I would wager a bet that most would look at you funny if you presented one

Probably - I don't get to use the lounges that often!

The lounge at BHM was closed due to staff shortage when I was there last week, so I was unable to check it out.

Yeah, unfortunately a rather common occurrence on the couple of times I've passed by!

The ticket gates are prioritised over the lounge incase of shortage

 

[MrJeeves]

The ticket gates are prioritised over the lounge incase of shortage

I mean the gates will be opened if you wave any odd orange item in front of the staff anyway...

 

[Bungle965]

I mean the gates will be opened if you wave any odd orange item in front of the staff anyway...

However in the DfT eyes, having the gates in operation is the most important thing, none of this revenue training needed with it!

 

[Bill57p9]

LNER's website is silent on the matter therefore I would consider that no such thing applies. This is the eligibility criteria on their website:

Edinburgh Waverley First Class Lounge

If you've bought a First Class ticket to or from Edinburgh Waverley you have access to our luxurious First Class lounge at the station.

www.lner.co.uk

Interesting.
The way I read this is that I can use the Edinburgh Lounge with a 1st class return to Edinburgh from Glasgow (which is precisely what I am planning to do tomorrow - Not the £5 upgrade on board ScotRail).

It also reads that it wouldn’t even need to be on the LNER network, though Glasgow of course is.


As a second point, is there a 1st class lounge at Glasgow Queen Street? The only mention I can find of a ScotRail lounge is Aberdeen. GLQ would seem a significant gap.