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2020 US Presidential Election

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A Challenge

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If Nelson Mandela were alive today, Jack Dorsey would have banned him from Twitter.

The New Zealand mosque shooter listed Nelson Mandela as one of his sources of inspiration for the shooting.

The shooter was a maniac— but by Jack’s rules, Nelson Mandela was to blame.
I'm sure if I was a Republican I'd understand the link here - I don't ever remember Nelson Mandela having told people to shoot Muslims.
 

Peter Sarf

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So Trumps gone, but I frankly wouldn't bet against him running for president again in 2024 and maybe becoming President. As much I am pleased to see Trump gone, Biden will be the oldest President in History to take up office, I thought Reegan was an old president but actually he was slightly younger than Biden when he left office!

If the Republicans ditch him I think he will run his own party, which would be difficult for him to win from that position as it would split the right wing vote but then this is America.
See below but also if he is allowed any mouthpiece he will continue to stir up prejudice and mis-information. Mind you muzzling him will just raise his profile. He might just quietly go away but I very much doubt it.
A split GOP vote won't be enough to win - however you split 50% you're going to end up with two portions that are both less than 50%. So he can definitely continue the destruction of the GOP as we know it.
Therefore, unfortunately, the GOP will keep him on side as a means to their survival. Otherwise he will quite happily attempt to dismantle the democracy that he asserts (incorrectly) is flawed.
Perhaps not successful enough to win an election, but it's amazing how he has managed to "brainwash" all kinds of people into playing follow-the-leader. I know some very conservative Christians who were firmly against Trump in the 2016 election as they saw his record with his marriages, sex scandals etc as firmly against their beliefs, but now they are parroting all the "Trump won the election by a landslide" nonsense and even supporting the rioters. I find it very scary and worrying to be honest.
Trump has awakened a lot of misinformed radicals with irrational promises (lies). It is not going to be easy at all to diffuse that.
 

RichT54

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So satisfying, after all his lies and the damage he has caused, to see Trump finally kicked out of the White House. Hopefully he will soon be brought before the courts and end up in jail where he so rightfully deserves to be.
 

Typhoon

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I suspect he's too old for a comeback, unless we soon get "Biden is unwell" headlines and we end up with President Harris in short order, in which case all bets are off.

This young lady is the one to watch for 2024.

Quote by Candace Owens:
But if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, okay, fine. The problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalize. He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German. Everybody to look a different way. To me, that’s not nationalism. In thinking about how we could go bad down the line, I don’t really have an issue with nationalism. I really don’t. I think that it’s okay.”
No, that is not the problem, it was that he set out to eliminate whole sections of society on the strength of their race, religion, sexuality, beliefs, and probably more besides and this happened both outside and inside Germany.
(From https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...upporters-seemed-defend-hitler-recent-speech/
 
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Peter Sarf

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So satisfying, after all his lies and the damage he has caused, to see Trump finally kicked out of the White House. Hopefully he will soon be brought before the courts and end up in jail where he so rightfully deserves to be.
My fear is that this will just make him become a martyr.
 

Busaholic

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My fear is that this will just make him become a martyr.
If bringing a megalomaniac sociopath to justice is judged too difficult to do in case rabid, brain-dead members of his personality cult get angry then there really is no hope for the human race, let alone democracy. The most urgent imperative, along with all the others Joe Biden faces, is to seek amendments to the American Constitution to make some of the breathtaking actions taken 'legally' by Trump out of bounds to any future President: after all, the parroted 'inalienable right to bear arms' was an addition to the Constitution many years post Abraham Lincoln in the form of an Amendment. Oh, and end the nonsense of Supreme Court judges being Presidential appointments, and for life. Even the U.K., not the most progressive in this regard, realised after the disaster of Lord Denning continuing as highest judge long after his senility became obvious that an age cut-off was necessary.
 

43096

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A split GOP vote won't be enough to win - however you split 50% you're going to end up with two portions that are both less than 50%. So he can definitely continue the destruction of the GOP as we know it.
So the GOP's best strategy may be to support the Democrat impeachment of him in the Senate and see him barred from holding public office again. Mitch McConnell has been making noises in recent days about Trump's involvement in the storming of the Capitol, and he's not usually one for making such pronouncements without having thought through the politics of it.
 

21C101

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So the GOP's best strategy may be to support the Democrat impeachment of him in the Senate and see him barred from holding public office again. Mitch McConnell has been making noises in recent days about Trump's involvement in the storming of the Capitol, and he's not usually one for making such pronouncements without having thought through the politics of it.
I doub't it will make any difference if he is impeached, in fact it will be grist to the mill.

He seems to be set on setting up a media outlet and new party and choosing an "apprentice" to run in 2024.
 

najaB

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after all, the parroted 'inalienable right to bear arms' was an addition to the Constitution many years post Abraham Lincoln in the form of an Amendment.
While I get the sentiment, it doesn't help the discussion to post factual inexactitudes. The second amendment was passed eighteen years before Abraham Lincoln was born.
Oh, and end the nonsense of Supreme Court judges being Presidential appointments, and for life.
Presidential appointments, with Congressional confirmation for the precise reason that they should be apolitical, and equal to the other two branches of government. The change that needs to happen is figuring out how to what happened with Merit Garland happening again.
 

Domh245

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Presidential appointments, with Congressional confirmation for the precise reason that they should be apolitical, and equal to the other two branches of government. The change that needs to happen is figuring out how to what happened with Merit Garland happening again.

Surely making supreme court appointments a single, time limited term (of maybe 10 or 15 years so that they're desynchronised from presidential terms) would not only be preferable to life appointments (especially where that now means 40 year terms when they'd have been much shorter when the supreme court came into being), but would also go a long way to solving the Garland problem - you'd see far less obstructionist behaviour when there's much less at stake (only 'losing' a seat for a term rather than 40 years) and you'd have every chance to put your own people into guaranteed vacancies within a predetermined timescale
 

birchesgreen

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I love the quip from the CNN presenter as Biden entered the White House

"Yes the White House has been deep cleaned [after Trump left]" :lol:
 

DynamicSpirit

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Presidential appointments, with Congressional confirmation for the precise reason that they should be apolitical, and equal to the other two branches of government. The change that needs to happen is figuring out how to what happened with Merit Garland happening again.

It seems a curious system even aside from the lifetime appointments. Maybe because I'm too used to the UK system where being a judge is a purely professional occupation in which your job is to put your personal views aside and rule purely on what the law states - to me, it seems bizarre and wrong that politicians should have any role whatsoever in appointing judges.
 

najaB

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Surely making supreme court appointments a single, time limited term (of maybe 10 or 15 years so that they're desynchronised from presidential terms) would not only be preferable to life appointments (especially where that now means 40 year terms when they'd have been much shorter when the supreme court came into being), but would also go a long way to solving the Garland problem - you'd see far less obstructionist behaviour when there's much less at stake (only 'losing' a seat for a term rather than 40 years) and you'd have every chance to put your own people into guaranteed vacancies within a predetermined timescale
Perhaps so. The idea behind the lifetime appointment is to mirror the idea of a tenured professor - it's supposed to be for someone who is extremely experienced (read: old), who will serve for as long as they are able without having to worry about their next job, pleasing the person who appointed them, etc.
to me, it seems bizarre and wrong that politicians should have any role whatsoever in appointing judges
As I understand it, the idea was that someone who two-thirds of senators could agree on would be equally disagreeable to all sides.
 

daodao

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Whatever one thinks of Trump, and he did some good things such as peace accords between Israel and certain Gulf states, he has now gone. It is vindictive to pursue him via the impeachment process.

However, there is still "Britain Trump" in post in the UK for at least the next 3-4 years and his counterpart in Brazil. I cannot think of any mitigating features for either of them. It seems no coincidence that Brazil, the UK and the USA have mismanaged the Covid epidemic worse than nearly all other countries. Even Corbyn would have been better, as he would have had the guidance/assistance of John McDonnell (and his little red book!).
 

RichT54

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Whatever one thinks of Trump, and he did some good things such as peace accords between Israel and certain Gulf states, he has now gone. It is vindictive to pursue him via the impeachment process.

Whatever little 'good' Trump achieved was far outweighed by the lies, hatred and divisions he caused. Not to mention that he raised a riot in an attempt to stage a coup that would have destroyed democracy in America. And people died! It is not vindictive to hold people to account for such actions, it's justice. If you allow him to walk free others will see it as weakness and be emboldened to take further such actions.
 

najaB

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Whatever one thinks of Trump, and he did some good things such as peace accords between Israel and certain Gulf states, he has now gone. It is vindictive to pursue him via the impeachment process.
He helped to incite a riotous mob to try and overthrow another branch of the government, resulting in the multiple deaths, and your suggestion is that he shouldn't face any consequence whatsoever? What happened to "law and order"?
 

daodao

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He helped to incite a riotous mob to try and overthrow another branch of the government, resulting in the multiple deaths, and your suggestion is that he shouldn't face any consequence whatsoever? What happened to "law and order"?
It's one law for Trump and another for his opponents. On 6/1/21, he may have used excessive rhetoric in his speech, but has made it clear in a subsequent statement that in no way did he approve of the violence at the Capitol later that day.

In February 2014, the USA in collaboration with the EU connived to overthrow the legitimate government of the Ukraine because they did not agree with it, by means of a violent mob. Key members of the Obama-Biden administration were involved in this activity, in particular Victoria Nuland, whom it was reported on January 5, 2021 is being lined up by Biden for the position of Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs in his new administration.

Biden to tap more Obama vets to fill key national security roles - POLITICO

The USA has often tried to effect regime change elsewhere by violence, often with disastrous results, as in Syria and Iraq. Other examples would be Chile in 1973 and Guatemala in 1954. Unlike most US presidents, Trump has been more isolationist and did not initiate any new military adventures while he was in office; he tried to disengage the USA from existing overseas military commitments started by previous administrations and broker peace deals.
 

najaB

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On 6/1/21, he may have used excessive rhetoric in his speech, but has made it clear in a subsequent statement that in no way did he approve of the violence at the Capitol later that day.
Yes, your honour, I did stab the victim multiple times, but in a statement later that day I made it clear that I don't approve of stabbing in any way.
In February 2014, the USA in collaboration with the EU connived to overthrow the legitimate government of the Ukraine
Hahahahahahahahahahhaaaaaaa!!!!!
 

nlogax

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It's one law for Trump and another for his opponents. On 6/1/21, he may have used excessive rhetoric in his speech, but has made it clear in a subsequent statement that in no way did he approve of the violence at the Capitol later that day.

He made it clear he was reading from an autocue with no real belief in the words he uttered.

Let's not defend Trump and what he and his cohorts - family included - did to his country over four years. Any path to him again running for president should be stopped by any and all necessary legal means.
 

daodao

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@ NajaB

A December 2016 survey by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology found that 34 percent of respondents in the government-controlled Ukraine regarded the change in power in February 2014 as an "illegal armed coup", while 56 percent regarded it as a "popular revolution". Note that the area of the government-controlled Ukraine excludes the Crimea (now part of Russia) and the Donbass region, which is under the control of separatists, where I suspect that nearly 100% of inhabitants would regard the events of February 2014 as the violent overthrow of the legitimate Ukrainian government.
 

21C101

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The issue with the supreme court justices is between those who take a literal view of the words of the constitution and whose who think it can be interpreted creatively.

This splits along party lines.

The most well known creative interpretation of the constitution is the supreme court decision of 1973 that the right to privacy in the constitution meant that the 50 states could not forbid abortion.

This is at the root of a lot of the current divide. Whatever you think of abortion, it is surely something that should be decided on by elected representatives (as in the UK) not by judges creatively interpreting a constitution written 200 years ago by puritans who would, to a man, have been aghast that their words could have been so interpreted in the future.

The UK supreme court is no such thing. It is not a constitutional court but is a court of final appeal in criminal and civil matters. It started to take constitutional characteristics in regard to judicial reviews on government actions based on EU law, but that is no longer the case and it really ought to be renamed as "Her Majesty's Court of Final Appeal" which both accurately describes its role and accurately describes who is supreme (The Crown in Parliament)
 

najaB

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This is at the root of a lot of the current divide. Whatever you think of abortion, it is surely something that should be decided on by elected representatives (as in the UK) not by judges creatively interpreting a constitution written 200 years ago by puritans who would, to a man, have been aghast that their words could have been so interpreted in the future.
But it had been decided on by elected representatives. The ruling in Roe v Wade was that the law that the Texas legislature had passed and was on the books violated constitutionally protected rights. This is no different to the UK system where courts can rule on conflicts and contradictions in laws enacted by Parliament.

If another legislature wants to they are free to enact a new law prohibiting abortion and have it tested for constitutionality by the courts. Alternatively, if any State legislature wants to, it can propose a constitutional amendment that would make anti-abortion laws compatible with the constitution.
 
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